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Author Topic: Conflict of Interest Disclosure  (Read 7107 times)
Slobodan Blagojevic
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When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2012, 09:22:19 AM »
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...I suppose that suggests that it often is the teacher who is responsible for the failure...

Hey Rob, I always thought of you as the last guy on Earth to join the let's-find-someone-else-to-blame club, no? Wink
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jedbest
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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2012, 09:34:00 AM »
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Would it not be more constructive to discuss photography, than debating potential conflict of interests. This is NOT a scientific, peer reviewed journal but a forum of ideas and opinions. All of us bring a bias based on past experiences no matter the affiliation. Just my two cents.

Jed
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2012, 09:41:17 AM »
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Would it not be more constructive to discuss photography, than debating potential conflict of interests. This is NOT a scientific, peer reviewed journal but a forum of ideas and opinions. All of us bring a bias based on past experiences no matter the affiliation. Just my two cents.

Jed
Amen to that.
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Richowens
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« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2012, 09:50:48 AM »
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Slobodan,

 Just for the record I am not blaming Mrs. English for my failure to learn. It was ultimately up to me to make use of the information provided.
I chose the path of defiance and ignorance.
 I think Rob C was just thinking out loud.........and I agree with him. A teacher can have a tremendous influence on a student's life.
 
Rich

« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 10:07:15 AM by Richowens » Logged

Rob C
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« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2012, 11:21:28 AM »
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Hey Rob, I always thought of you as the last guy on Earth to join the let's-find-someone-else-to-blame club, no? Wink



Not a member, Slobodan, but there is no doubt that attitude cuts both ways in everything that involves more than one personality.

In fact, in my website's 'acknowledgements' page I include Barbara Farr as my best teacher, ever. And she was. When I was leaving school to face the bigger world, she presented me with a copy of The Complete Works of Shakespeare. This at her own cost, I might add. To my shame, I never did (so far) complete it, but I can tell you that the first thing I asked my wife to bring me when I sat up after leaving Intensive Care post my heart excitement was that book.

My daughter and her husband both teach; according to them, some kids are simply unteachable despite your best efforts; others try, actively, to disrupt every class in which they find themselves and yet others are so desperate to leave and make money doing whatever such kids find to do, that they play truant a lot of the time. Then there's the occasional jewel who, given the chance, will educate himself to the limit of his ability and make the job worthwhile. Classes like that were totally alien to me; I suppose I must have lived in happier times or just been lucky in my schools, but loutish behaviour was definitely not the way it ran... anyone doing that would have been kicked out on his ear after having experienced a severe pain across his ass... but of course, now, you can no longer use methods that louts understand.

So no, not signing up to that club yet, Slobodan!

;-)

Rob C
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bobjanes
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« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2012, 03:33:10 AM »
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I think the conflicts of interest work in complex ways.

For anyone writing on a site like this, their reputation is everything - from that PoV, they are just as likely to over-compensate where they are aware they have a bias, because they know that a significant minority (at least) will be suspecting their motive - and even if the conflict of interest does not exist, people will assume that the writer/administrator is getting 'benefits' from elsewhere.

In reality no-one is going to compromise themselves for advertising monies (or if they do they won't be listened to for long) - and I doubt that any advertiser would pull their adverts if criticism is justified.

Bob J (in the spirit of disclosure, no relation to the OP :-)
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Rob C
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« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2012, 03:45:34 AM »
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To nobody in particular.


Whatever happened to the concept of a websit, and one's position within it, being analogous to sitting in the host's parlour, having a civilized conversation and a cup of tea...

Rob C
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feppe
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« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2012, 04:02:10 AM »
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Whatever happened to the concept of a websit, and one's position within it, being analogous to sitting in the host's parlour, having a civilized conversation and a cup of tea...

Such concept does not exist for blogs or websites such as LL. Many bloggers feel they have earned the same freedom of the press enjoyed by print media. With this freedom comes the social contract that they conduct their business in an impartial manner, and adhere to basic journalistic ethics. FTC in the US agrees to a certain extent, and that is the reason TOP and (I believe) LL has disclosures on their articles.

Forums, on the other hand, are what you describe; but the OP is about articles on the main site so I won't comment further on that.
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bobjanes
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« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2012, 04:02:46 AM »
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To nobody in particular.


Whatever happened to the concept of a websit, and one's position within it, being analogous to sitting in the host's parlour, having a civilized conversation and a cup of tea...

Rob C

It does happen on some sites, but you do need an active membership that goes along with it, plus quite clear lines of moderation - even then some people will view that level of expected behaviour to be curtailment of free speech, so there is no forum style that fits all.

The problem with a web forum is that you come in blind to the other people in the room, so you don't know if you are ordering a cup of tea in the local Women's Institute, or the pool hall down the road (my apologies to anyone who may feel I have sterotyped the WI or local pool halls...)


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Rob C
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« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2012, 07:59:42 AM »
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Such concept does not exist for blogs or websites such as LL. Many bloggers feel they have earned the same freedom of the press enjoyed by print media. With this freedom comes the social contract that they conduct their business in an impartial manner, and adhere to basic journalistic ethics. FTC in the US agrees to a certain extent, and that is the reason TOP and (I believe) LL has disclosures on their articles.

Forums, on the other hand, are what you describe; but the OP is about articles on the main site so I won't comment further on that.



Well, on that basis, were this site mine, I'd be very tempted to lift a lazy two-fingers salute and close down.

I think that even raising the topic is a less than veiled insult.

Rob C
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michael
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« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2012, 09:11:23 AM »
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Well, on that basis, were this site mine, I'd be very tempted to lift a lazy two-fingers salute and close down.

I think that even raising the topic is a less than veiled insult.

Rob C

There are days Rob. Believe me, there are days.

Michael
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John Camp
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« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2012, 02:08:27 PM »
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I worked for newspapers for a good part of my career, and I have a kind of newspaper attitude toward websites -- that is, the owners/publishers control the website and are responsible for what appears on it. There is a serious "responsibility" involved. In practical terms, though, websites can't be run quite like newspapers, because with a newspaper, ALL the content first goes through the hands of an editor. That's simply a practical matter of newspaper production. On a very large website with a forum, with automatic, self-selected publishing, it's somewhat impractical to have somebody sitting astride the commentary at all times (although some smaller websites, like The Online Photographer, do that.)

The point is, eliminating some commentary isn't (in my view) a restriction of freedom of speech. A website owner who stops an argument, locks a thread, or bans some commentators is not saying, "You can't speak," he's saying, "You can't use my website to promote your views." That's just like Target or WalMart saying, "You can't set up a soapbox and speak in our store." You're free to go anywhere else that you're accepted, or to set up your own website, and broadcast your views any way you wish -- you can speak as loudly as you wish, to whatever audience you can attract. But a website owner can say, "You just can't do it here."

Michael runs a pretty loose ship. I've been on this forum for several years, and it appears to me that's because of a conscious philosophical position. If I were running it (and thank god I'm not) I would be somewhat more restrictive. Not much, but somewhat. The Schewe-style exchanges don't bother me, but some of the exchanges that we saw in the late unlamented medium-format thread did bother me, and I would have shut the thread down much earlier in the process, and would have also have closed down any revivals of it. That said, I have no problems with the way Michael handled it.

But still, and to repeat myself, IMHO closing a thread, or banning a commentator, is not limiting free speech, nor is it censorship, any more than removing a disruptive child from a classroom is. It's simply taking responsibility for controlling the website. The disruptive person is free to make whatever speeches he wants, to whatever audience he can find...elsewhere.
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feppe
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« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2012, 03:29:32 PM »
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Well, on that basis, were this site mine, I'd be very tempted to lift a lazy two-fingers salute and close down.

Blame the Americans and their sue-happy culture for that. The only people who win are lawyers.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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There is no rule! No - wait ...


« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2012, 03:43:28 PM »
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There are days Rob. Believe me, there are days.

Michael



Well - if you don't suffer for something it doesn't really have a value ... so - everything is fine ... Wink
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bobjanes
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« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2012, 05:51:39 PM »
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...The point is, eliminating some commentary isn't (in my view) a restriction of freedom of speech. A website owner who stops an argument, locks a thread, or bans some commentators is not saying, "You can't speak," he's saying, "You can't use my website to promote your views." That's just like Target or WalMart saying, "You can't set up a soapbox and speak in our store." You're free to go anywhere else that you're accepted, or to set up your own website, and broadcast your views any way you wish -- you can speak as loudly as you wish, to whatever audience you can attract. But a website owner can say, "You just can't do it here."

An excellent point well made.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2012, 03:50:01 AM »
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I think the conflicts of interest work in complex ways.

For anyone writing on a site like this, their reputation is everything - from that PoV, they are just as likely to over-compensate where they are aware they have a bias, because they know that a significant minority (at least) will be suspecting their motive - and even if the conflict of interest does not exist, people will assume that the writer/administrator is getting 'benefits' from elsewhere.
I agree. Bias can work in subtle ways - both ways. Therefore I am sceptical about anyone claiming to have no biases, or who claims to be able to willfully "switch their bias off". Bias seems to be part of being human.
Quote
In reality no-one is going to compromise themselves for advertising monies (or if they do they won't be listened to for long) - and I doubt that any advertiser would pull their adverts if criticism is justified.
I think that plenty of people will write whatever they think is needed to generate advertising money. The good ones will be able to attract visitors as well.

This is a general claim based on my personal experience with human nature. (got to have disclaimers for the lawyers in here)

-h
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2012, 08:04:38 AM »
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There are days Rob. Believe me, there are days.

Michael

Do not, Michael.
Please, do not.  Smiley
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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There is no rule! No - wait ...


« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2012, 08:58:08 AM »
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[...]
I think that even raising the topic is a less than veiled insult.

Rob C

Indeed.
+1
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2012, 10:25:06 AM »
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I think we need a new disclosure:

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The guys at Leica will answer my phone calls and not yours. This comes from the effort I put in building this site. You don't like it? To bad, suck it up.

And we still get to count angles dancing on the head of a pin in the forums.
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KLaban
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« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2012, 11:19:51 AM »
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I think we need a new disclosure:

A disclosure by whom and of what?

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The guys at Leica will answer my phone calls and not yours. This comes from the effort I put in building this site. You don't like it? To bad, suck it up.

And the author of this quote is?

And we still get to count angles dancing on the head of a pin in the forums.

Can angles dance on the head of a pin?

« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 11:26:42 AM by KLaban » Logged

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