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Author Topic: OS X 10.7 (Lion) and 10.8 (Mountain Lion)  (Read 18655 times)
Chris_Brown
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« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2012, 06:20:33 PM »
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IT IS UGLY

You can always go with something like this.   Cheesy

These kinds of machines are built for lowest fan noise, fastest graphics rendering and fastest internal bus speeds.
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Schewe
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« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2012, 06:28:42 PM »
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and if i am correct Dell is part of Apple..?

Couldn't be further than the truth...Michael Dell truly pissed on Steve Jobs when he said Apple should just be liquidated and the remainder given to Apple shareholders. Apple didn't follow Dell's advice and as of the close recently, it seem Dell ain't all that good at predicting the future. I think they made amends before Steve passed away.
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John.Murray
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« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2012, 08:25:01 PM »
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Bernard:  That Dell is basically identical to Dual CPU entry level servers I build, in fact that CPU is a killer deal considering the price. 

Comparing this with a non ECC socket 2011, show a noticeable increase in memory bandwidth and overall performance - mainly due to the on-die quad-interleaved memory access.  Intel will be rolling out E5 Socket 2011 Xeon CPU's this spring (last word I heard is mid april).  The EVGA-SRX will support Dual-CPU configurations.....
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Raw shooter
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« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2012, 09:27:32 PM »
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Yes I agree .... IT IS UGLY (and still uses old techno like 3g harddisks)
and if i am correct Dell is part of Apple..? So thats the trucks company from now on...

What?
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pindman
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« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2012, 10:16:32 PM »
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Yes, I love the Blue Screen of Death and the frequent crashes of Win 7.  Each version of Windows gets worse.  Maybe because my $5k dell workstation with 16GB Ram just isn't powerful enough. 

Actually Win7 is pretty good. I have been using it at work for one year and a half in parallel with 10.6 at home. The one OSX feature I miss is expose, for the rest I may actually prefer Win7 or at least is it probably a draw.

This is sad because if I end up replacing my Mac Pro by a Win machine, so will the Mac book pro and Mac mini.

The real tiring thing is the swap of apps from OSX to Win, but that will be a one time pain.

Cheers,
Bernard

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pindman
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« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2012, 10:30:48 PM »
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Actually, you may want to seriously consider doing this...the chances of "Big Iron" being updated and staying current at Apple is diminishing...a recent problem with the EU regarding energy star ratings (I may have this slightly wrong, but it had to do with some sort of change with EU laws and power consumption) seems to have bitten Apples towers. Which would be the perfect excuse for Apple to drop the tower line up entirely.

Personally, I'm worried...and so is Chris Sanderson (and some Apple employees I know). People who need big iron are a diminishing group and Apple tends to drop diminishing groups from their lineups. Even though they have $90 billion in the bank, it's due largely to iPhone/iPad sales. Real computers is a diminishing %. Big iron is falling even faster.

If you need 4+ drives and 32-64GB of ram and really fast I/O and multiple PCI slots, then you should be worried. I'm worried...

HD+ video and large format digital imaging (really big files) are not gonna be in Apple wheelhouse in the near future.

The upside is Windows 7 64-bit doesn't suck nearly as much as anything named Vista...

So what's a guy to do?  My Dell Precision 490 with 16GB of ram crashes frequently.  Every time I downgrade to the newer windows version it gets less stable.  XP worked fine, but CS5 made me go to Vista, which I switched (with no improvement) to Win 7 because of crashes. 

I was waiting for the new Mac Pro with a 6GB/sec buss, hoping that would be better, but have seen the color management problems with the Macs.

So, given my files from the IQ180 are huge, I need the following:

1.  Ability to handle files over 1 GB quickly probably means SSD's with a 6GB/S bus
2.  Quiet (the Dell fan is LOUD)
3.  Doesn't heat up the whole room (Kilowatt power supplies tend to do that)
4.  Probably 64-128GB RAM


I really don't want to get into building my own machine, as I don't have time to deal with the details.  Would like to get a machine that works well from the start, can handle at least 64GB RAM, and is cool and quiet.

Switching to the MAC platform is a major investment in learning and a smaller investment in software.  Dell service is good if you buy the expensive service package where people speak your language and have actual seen a computer, the their workstations are already obsolete.  Your thoughts are welcome.

Thanks.

Paul

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2012, 10:31:18 PM »
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Yes, I love the Blue Screen of Death and the frequent crashes of Win 7.  Each version of Windows gets worse.  Maybe because my $5k dell workstation with 16GB Ram just isn't powerful enough. 

Well, I am not sure what the problem is with your setup, but I must have experienced one BSOD in win7 in 2 years of usage, that is significantly less than the amount of issues I have been experiencing on my Mac Pro.

Cheers,
Bernard
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jjj
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« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2012, 11:02:11 PM »
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Yes, I love the Blue Screen of Death and the frequent crashes of Win 7.  Each version of Windows gets worse.  Maybe because my $5k dell workstation with 16GB Ram just isn't powerful enough. 
Well I get complete system crashes on my MacPro and the beachball of doom is my constant companion. And it generally runs like a crappy 12year old home made PC running 98. Though I just discovered that if I reboot every hour or so, LR is actually usable.
My ancient laptop running XP hasn't been restarted for months. I just close lid, it goes to sleep, open lid and it works. Not sure I've ever had BSOD on that machine.
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jjj
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« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2012, 11:18:58 PM »
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So what's a guy to do?  My Dell Precision 490 with 16GB of ram crashes frequently.  Every time I downgrade to the newer windows version it gets less stable.  XP worked fine, but CS5 made me go to Vista, which I switched (with no improvement) to Win 7 because of crashes. 

I really don't want to get into building my own machine, as I don't have time to deal with the details.  Would like to get a machine that works well from the start, can handle at least 64GB RAM, and is cool and quiet.
I had a PC that was a bit like that. Problem was caused by a dodgy hard drive connector.

Quote
Switching to the MAC platform is a major investment in learning and a smaller investment in software.  Dell service is good if you buy the expensive service package where people speak your language and have actual seen a computer, the their workstations are already obsolete.  Your thoughts are welcome.
I've used Macs and PCs for quite some time now and on the whole my Macs are less reliable and way more expensive.

Mac Pro Issues
Crappy DVD writer, very noisy from start and then died.
Front FW port has died
Mouse - scroll ball has the same clagging up issue as all mouse balls used to in the 90s, before being replaced with lasers.
Keyboard - left shift key randomly stops working on top row of letters and right shift key doesn't then work with all keys on number row.
General slug like performance.
MacBook Pro issues
Power management problems - which leads to a black screen and a forced reboot.
Mag safe connectors have been recalled due to fraying on some models. Mine seems fine so far.
DVD writer is playing up and struggles to read or write anything.
iPhone issues
Dropped calls.
Dreadful sound quality at other end - some people now call me on landline instead.
Voice mail takes up to a week to arrive.
[I didn't have these problems with my HTC on same network]

Nano works fine though.
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Farmer
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« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2012, 12:21:53 AM »
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If your Precision 490 is BSODing all the time, you have a hardware problem.  Win 7 is a hugely stable OS.
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pindman
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« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2012, 10:10:49 AM »
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Don't want to hijack the thread, but the BSOD is rare.  Mostly freezes.  Fresh install of Win 7 64-bit didn't help. 

So... any Windows workstations with a 6GB/S bus and onboard USB-3 ports, or will I need to wait?

Thanks.
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Pete_G
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« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2012, 10:14:29 AM »
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Yes, I love the Blue Screen of Death and the frequent crashes of Win 7.  Each version of Windows gets worse.



I don't think I've had a blue screen on Win 7 64, ever. And I think each version of Windows gets better.

As regards Apple getting out of the workstation market, that's bad, but HP are getting ready to quit the hardware market too, meaning we'll lose their workstations such as the Z800. This is a pain, I don't like Dells and I've had a few of them. I've had workstations built by small suppliers too and that didn't go well either.

Ultimately we will have to look at who will step up to supply workstations to the Digital Film biz users, they're still going to need big boxes. Will it be Lenovo?
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2012, 10:27:01 AM »
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Back to the original topic. I stalled Lion several days ago and all of my photo applications are running just fine  (Adobe Creative Suite 5 Extended, Lightroom 3 & 4, CaptureOne Pro, PTGui Pro, Xrite products, Helicon Focus, ColorThink 2.3, Wacom, PhotoKit Sharpener, PocketWizard Utility, Eizo Color Navigator, Canon print drivers and Epson print drivers.

In fact with Lion's 64-bit kernal implementation things have definitely speeded up over SnowLeopard's 32-bit kernal  on the same machine - a late 2009 27" 2.66GHZ iMac with 16GB RAM (from OWC)  and two 8TB Drobo v2 boxes hanging off of it.

This may not be as fast as Jeff's "Big Iron" or other's similarly configured Windows 7 boxes, but it works well, and paid for itself pretty quickly. The slowest aspect of my system is the user who interfaces with it.
 
I'm not inteested in switching  computer platforms. If I have to in a year or two I'll deal with that then.

In the meantime OS X 10.7 appears stable, my machine is stable and I am getting the real photographic and other creative and marketing work  that pays the bills done and I am very happy to not have to also play the part of apprentice-without-a-master amateur IT guy in a self-inflicted digital S&M game.

As someone who (unfortunately still) owns a little Dell stock left over from the late 1990s tech bubble, and as the husband of a wife who has gone through three Dell computers in four years, their hardware and service suck.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:54:44 AM by Ellis Vener » Logged

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Gemmtech
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« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2012, 11:05:16 AM »
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Why does everybody blame MS-Windows?  They are asked to support 1000s of motherboards, ram, hard drives, video cards, optical drives, raid cards, 1 billion pieces of software etc. and it does a great job.  My IPhone crashes a lot more frequently than any PC I have.  I have machines running Windows 7 that haven't crashed yet and a WinXP machine that's been running since XP came out, I reboot it every couple months just for the heck of it.  My MAC OS crashes every bit as much if not more than my PCs, yes I just love the colorful spinning wheel :-)  It's not just the OS that causes the machine to crash, bad hardware (Dell PCs are one of the worst) causes a lot of problems.
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DeeJay
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« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2012, 04:11:48 PM »
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Lion is buggy. On snow leopard with my dual Raid 0 SSD boot disk the computer booted in 3 or 4 seconds. It takes over a minute now.
Mail is buggy as hell. If you're emailing pics and want to use the resize feature which I do a lot then its buggy. If you drag photos between messages it randomly fails and makes them odd sizes and screws the formatting up. There are other annoying issues like this.
Wifi constantly drops out. I'm constantly turning Wifi on then off again to get a connection.
Safari is buggy and crashes. Simply adding a bookmark to the toolbar locks the app up and takes a minute to finish.
Aperture is buggy and crashes.
Sometimes when I restart and it boots up it takes 5 minutes before I can actually do anything with the mouse or keyboard.
In general the computer freezes momentarily more often. I never had this problem with Snow Leopard.

Lion would be great. Should be great. I really like the new features but it's finicky and buggy and frustrating. You should be able to UPgrade and have just that. Not a downgrade in performance.

Apple used to be rock solid and never had issues. The last year things have been slipping and it seems to be getting worse. When I upgraded my iPad to iOS 5 it wiped the iPad AND the Backups in iTunes. All Apple said was - oh yeah, that has happened to quite a few people. Sorry.

They are the most profitable company in the world. Issues like this should not be occurring.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 04:31:48 PM by DeeJay » Logged
John.Murray
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« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »
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I reboot it every couple months just for the heck of it.

If you're not rebooting Windows once a month (after 2nd Tues of each month when MS rolls out updates), then you're not current on security

Just saying.....
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jjj
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« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2012, 08:05:12 PM »
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Why does everybody blame MS-Windows?  They are asked to support 1000s of motherboards, ram, hard drives, video cards, optical drives, raid cards, 1 billion pieces of software etc. and it does a great job.  My IPhone crashes a lot more frequently than any PC I have.  I have machines running Windows 7 that haven't crashed yet and a WinXP machine that's been running since XP came out, I reboot it every couple months just for the heck of it.  My MAC OS crashes every bit as much if not more than my PCs, yes I just love the colorful spinning wheel :-) 
THIS. /\

Apple computers should not only be better than PC's because on the whole they are high end premium kit, but because Apple design the OS and choose the hardware to go with it, so they should be much much better. Yet in reality there's no real difference. So I'd say MS were doing a much better job on the whole.
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sbay
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« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2012, 08:55:59 PM »
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Apple computers should not only be better than PC's because on the whole they are high end premium kit, but because Apple design the OS and choose the hardware to go with it, so they should be much much better. Yet in reality there's no real difference. So I'd say MS were doing a much better job on the whole.

I don't see how you can tell one way or the other if apples are better worse than pc's for crashes without a volume of data. On the net we tend to see a lot of anecdotes about poor / good performance but a series of self-selected anecdotes does not give one something that one can generalize from reliably.

It may very well be that OS X crashes more than win7 (or vice versa) but given that crash rates are so low, you'd need a huge population to tell.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:57:34 PM by sbay » Logged

jjj
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« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2012, 09:36:15 PM »
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I don't see how you can tell one way or the other if apples are better worse than pc's for crashes without a volume of data. On the net we tend to see a lot of anecdotes about poor / good performance but a series of self-selected anecdotes does not give one something that one can generalize from reliably.

It may very well be that OS X crashes more than win7 (or vice versa) but given that crash rates are so low, you'd need a huge population to tell.
That may be the case to gauge absolute accuracy, but misses the point I was making. Apple should be much, much, much better than PCs [or rival phones] for reasons mentioned above. Yet the reality seems otherwise.
Just a few week's back recently Apple managed to screw up two OSX updates, one to Lion and one to Snow Leopard, whilst at the same time making a pig's ear out of iTune Match.
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K.C.
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« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2012, 02:56:18 AM »
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I don't see how you can tell one way or the other if apples are better worse than pc's for crashes without a volume of data. On the net we tend to see a lot of anecdotes...

You can't draw an informed conclusion for the extremely limited data posted here. I think most realize that.

I'm running LION on a current iMac, a 2 year old MPB and a Pro that's a couple years old. It's stable and reliable on all of them and the 20 other similar Macs I support. I also support a few dozen 7 Pro machines and they've been trouble free except for hardware issues.

Based on my experience, 29+ years in IT and every generation of OS6/7/8/9/10 and W3.31 to 7, both current OSs are very stable until you introduce hardware issues, then they both can be a pain.

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