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Author Topic: Printing weirdness in LR4 - or is it just me ?  (Read 2144 times)
jeremyrh
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« on: February 19, 2012, 04:27:01 AM »
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OK, I preface my question with the confession that I am not a LR3 user, just someone thinking to jump the fence from Aperture, so maybe my post falls in the category of "user error".

That said ..

I select an image in Library, and click Print to go to the print module.
I see a preview of that image.
I make some adjustments to brightness and contrast with the Print Adjustment sliders. The preview is not updated.
I print (to JPEG file to avoid wasting ink and paper!!) and the image seems to reflect the adjustments I had made.
I go back to Library and select a second image.
I go to Print, and the preview shows the ORIGINAL image.
I print the file and it again prints the orginal image.

There are some more horrible things when I click Soft Proofing, but maybe they are related...

What have I done wrong (be gentle ...) ? At this point I am totally confused about what to expect to spit out of my printer.
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 05:30:07 AM »
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Hmmm ... checked by running LR3, and the "not updating the print preview" behaviour seems to be a bug. Anyone else seeing this? That is a disappointment, as I'd understood from Jeff that printing is one of LR4's strong points.
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dchew
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 05:31:07 AM »
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Those brightness and contrast sliders in the Print Module are akin to making changes in the print driver.  They are changes made on the fly to the image as it goes from LR to printer (or in your case from LR to the file).  I have not yet come up with a reason to use them; they are new to LR4b. 

Most people recommend staying away from those two sliders.  Get the image looking the way you want in the Develop module; make all your changes there.  If your monitor is calibrated and your color management is set correctly, you should get pretty close to how it looks in a print.  I recommend first trying at least one real print that way without worrying about soft proofing.  If nothing else it puts into context what soft proofing does and how it helps.

There are some brief videos about soft proofing floating around.  One is here on Lula: 
What's New in Lightroom 4
There are some good links in this thread here:
Lightroom 4 BETA - Its here

Dave
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 05:41:20 AM »
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Thanks for your reply Dave. I agree it makes sense not to fiddle with the image at the last minute (though if the sliders are there, they should at least work). At this point my major concern is just getting LR to print the image I want it to print, at any brightness or contrast!!
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dchew
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 06:05:08 AM »
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I sounds to me like they do work, but not they way you want them to.  You mentioned you do see the changes in the file you created using Print to JPEG.  So I think they do work.  You do not see the updates on the screen because that is not what those sliders are for.  It really is just like messing around in a print driver.  You will not see the changes anywhere except the output file/print.  That is precisely why I don't think anyone is recommending to use them.

I suspect they are there for people who do not fully understand the printing pipeline; pure trial and error.

I get very good results printing out of Lightroom, as do many others.  So I think if you stick to making adjustments in the Develop module you should get very successful results.  Have you made a print yet?  If so, what was wrong with it?  Too dark, flat, wrong color...?

Dave
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 06:13:30 AM »
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Thanks again, Dave.

Probably I am not making myself very clear. The behaviour I am seeing is that when I select a NEW image in Library, or Develop, and click Print, I don't see that image in the preview - I see first image that I had selected previously, and it is also that previous image that is printed. I can update the preview, and the printed file, by deselecting and reselecting "Use Selected Photos" at the bottom of the screen, but that seems unsatisfactory.

As I say, maybe I am just not getting my head into the way LR works, but it seems to me that when I am editing a photo in Develop, it is natural to click Print and be able to print that photo. (The brightness/contrast sliders thing is not a deal-breaker but it seems also that adjusting the sliders should affect the image preview.)

Sorry for taxing everyone's patience !!
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dchew
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 06:23:22 AM »
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Ahhhh.  Sorry!  Yes, I think that is a bug.  I get the same thing.  Select an image in the Grid view, go to Print, go back to Grid, select another image, go to Print and the newly selected image is not showing. 

Yup, that has been an annoying bug on my machine too with LR4b.  I just go down to the filmstrip on the bottom and re-select that new image.  It then updates the image in the Print Module.  That will be fixed I'm sure.  Believe me, LR3 doesn't do that.

Regarding those two sliders, I'm not sure why they put them there.  Do what I do:  Pretend they are in your blind spot and are not even there.
Smiley

Dave
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 06:59:21 AM »
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Ahhhh.  Sorry!  Yes, I think that is a bug.  I get the same thing.  Select an image in the Grid view, go to Print, go back to Grid, select another image, go to Print and the newly selected image is not showing. 
Same here.
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PhotoEcosse
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 08:25:08 AM »
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The answer (until they fix the bug) is to remain in the Print Module. Do not go back to Library Module.

When you want to print second and subsequent images, remain in Print Module and simply select the next image from the filmstrip. The image in the Print Preview will change instantly.
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 08:29:37 AM »
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The answer (until they fix the bug) is to remain in the Print Module. Do not go back to Library Module.

When you want to print second and subsequent images, remain in Print Module and simply select the next image from the filmstrip. The image in the Print Preview will change instantly.
OK - I was just not sure that it was a bug or user error :-)

Notwithstanding the (sensible) comments above, I still think that the preview should reflect the position of the sliders  Roll Eyes

cheers,

Jeremy

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RogerW
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 08:58:42 AM »
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It's not "a bug".  It's a fix for those who don't have a good match between screen and print (a regular complaint).  Darkroom workers know all about making test prints.  These sliders are to be used with test prints to fine-tune output to screen.  As they work on the output itself, they can't really be reflected in the preview too!
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dchew
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 10:29:36 AM »
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It's not "a bug".  It's a fix for those who don't have a good match between screen and print (a regular complaint).  Darkroom workers know all about making test prints.  These sliders are to be used with test prints to fine-tune output to screen.  As they work on the output itself, they can't really be reflected in the preview too!

Roger, there are actually two issues we are discussing:  One is in regards to the selected image in the Grid Module not pulling into the Print Module; that's a bug.  The second is the two Print Module sliders you mention, which we all agree is not a bug.  Jeremyrh just doesn't like the way they are designed to work.

Dave
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bwana
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 07:27:22 PM »
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as long as we're talking about printing weirdness with LR4, I can share my experience. The gold standard for me is photoshop managing colors through the epson print driver to a 3800. LR3 does do not allow a color managed workflow. Not only is there no softproofing but it doesnt allow selection of icc profiles. LR4 has a great interface-I especially like the way it allows easy switches between colorimetric and perceptual intent. However, the images have a magenta cast. Waste of paper.
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dchew
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 08:30:25 PM »
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However, the images have a magenta cast. Waste of paper.

That is definitely not my experience.  I'm sure you know a magenta cast is usually a sign of double color management.  Sounds like you must be past that though. 

I am in the middle of printing 73 images for a show in March.  I decided to import the images into LR4b and try printing from there.  Boy am I glad I did.  My experience so far is, this is awesome.

No magenta or any other cast.  And I can very efficiently fine tune the soft proof to get extremely close to the "before" image.  Usually a simple curve tweak or a change in clarity.  But I have not experienced a single color balance issue yet.

I'm ecstatic.

Dave
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bwana
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 09:59:24 PM »
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you know it's been so long that i made that sophomoric printing mistake of double color management that i forgot the symptoms. i went back and rechecked my workflow and you are right-it is easy to to enable both drivers by mistake. In LR4, color management is active all the time. When you hit print, you are not first presented with the photoshop style dialog where you can disable the epson color management. Rather you get this basic printer dialog where can pick the printer, number of copies, which pages to print and a print to file checkbox. It looks pretty generic and I assumed that LR4 handled EVERYTHING> WRONG!

You have to hit the properties button in this print dialog. Then you get the epson properties dialog where you have to set the media type - and it can be different from the one you set in LR4. You also have to look in this section (a box labeled media settings) for 'mode'. There is a radio button for automatic or custom. You have to select custom and pick 'no color adjustment' from the drop down. Of course you also have to select the correct paper size because it could be different from what you set in LR4.

Once these were all set, I now get the nice colors I am expecting. Thank you for reminding me about the magenta mistake.
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kikashi
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 02:28:26 AM »
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LR3 does do not allow a color managed workflow. Not only is there no softproofing but it doesnt allow selection of icc profiles.
Unless, like me and everyone else who has taken the trouble to learn how to use the program, you use the "Profile:" popup menu in the bottom right corner, of course.

Jeremy
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 02:30:55 AM by kikashi » Logged
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