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Author Topic: Don't upgrade to LR4 yet....! Major Bug.  (Read 4147 times)
BFoto
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« on: March 09, 2012, 03:15:36 AM »
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LR4: tone curve settings lost after upgrade

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1092153

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4248611#4248611
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2012, 03:20:19 AM »
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Old news...info on dealing with it coming soon.
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Costas
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2012, 07:45:52 AM »
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Not sure what I am doing wrong (or right here) but I do not seem to have this problem

I am wrong - see next post below - figured it out

The LR4 upgrade box arrived this morning, so I purged my system of the Beta including the test catalogue.
Installed LR4 and asked it to create a new catalogue - which it did
Clicked on import from another catalogue which caused it to create a new converted version of the LR3 cat and then asked me to import.
Aborted the import and instead opened the converted catalogue.

All my custom curves are there under 2010 process model - and the images look as they should

I can create a VC and set that process model to 2012 and see the difference from the 2010 PM, including what it claims is the interpretation of my custom curve.

Need to do more tests, but  "I am a happy bunny"
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 08:13:06 AM by Costas » Logged
Costas
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2012, 08:12:06 AM »
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Not so sure I understand what it is doing with the tone curves.

Most of my images were imported into LR3 with a custom tone curve - seems to be a default somewhere, but is the way I want it.

Now looking at the images in LR4, on several images, I changed that tone curve to "strong contrast" - says so in the history, but the tone curve itself still says custom. Moving around the history, it is quite clear that change to "strong contrast" is not made, so essentially your images keep whatever tone curve they were originally imported with which in my case was my own custom curve
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 08:14:40 AM by Costas » Logged
Scott O.
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2012, 10:30:58 AM »
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According to the advice and reading I have done (including from Jeff Schewe) there is no issue in upgrading all unedited images to Process 2012.  But upgrades on previously edited images should be on an image-by-image basis, for reasons which include the tone curve as well as other control responses.  There is a possibility/probability that previously edited images will take on a different look when upgraded to Process 2012.  This may be good or bad, but should be done on an as-needed basis only.  And if you have an image which is "perfect" why mess with it at all?  There is an active thread which I started named "2012 Process Conversion" which has the best information I have seen on this subject, including posts by Jeff Schewe and Eric Chan.  So with respect to the OP, upgrade to LR4 to take advantage of all of the wonderful new features, just be careful which files you upgrade to Process 2012.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2012, 10:56:51 AM »
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According to the advice and reading I have done (including from Jeff Schewe) there is no issue in upgrading all unedited images to Process 2012.  But upgrades on previously edited images should be on an image-by-image basis, for reasons which include the tone curve as well as other control responses. 

Exactly. Don’t expect a visual match, expect to like and maybe dislike a bit, the results of an update. Bottom line, don’t bulk update to PV2012.
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Andrew Rodney
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Costas
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2012, 11:02:11 AM »
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..... So with respect to the OP, upgrade to LR4 to take advantage of all of the wonderful new features, just be careful which files you upgrade to Process 2012.

The issue concerns images in LR4 that use the the 2010 process Version. Nothing to do with converting to Process 2012.
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stamper
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 03:12:52 AM »
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This begs the question. If you don't plan to update to Process 2012 then why are importing it to LR4? Just open it in LR3.
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Costas
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 04:06:05 AM »
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Great - so have a LR3 catalogue for 2010 process and a separate LR4 catalogue for the images that would benefit from from 2012 process model. Why didn't I think of that solution

Its a problem Adobe are working on, so just need to wait for the bug fix version.
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Keith Reeder
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2012, 04:26:52 AM »
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Don't see this as a problem - as Stamper suggests, you've still got Lr 3.

Personally I have no intention of reworking my entire Lr 3 catalogue into Lr 4 - I'll just PV 2012 those of my existing images that I think will benefit from it, and convert all new images in Lr 4.

It actually makes perfect sense to me that Lr 3 tone curve settings might be dropped in Lr 4: it's clear enough to me that they wouldn't give the same results anyway, so you're still going to have to rework the tone curve to accommodate the other new processes in PV 2012.
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Keith Reeder
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BFoto
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2012, 04:50:00 AM »
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It actually makes perfect sense to me that Lr 3 tone curve settings might be dropped in Lr 4: it's clear enough to me that they wouldn't give the same results anyway, so you're still going to have to rework the tone curve to accommodate the other new processes in PV 2012.

Actually, no it doesn't. When the Catalogue is upgraded in LR4 process version 2010 remains for existing images (from LR3). I feel it's probable more to do with the DNG codec. For example, my images are all converted to DNG with Raw embedded, and my preferences are set for "auto save to xmp". Thus, if the DNG code was faultless, shouldn't my images develop settings still be readable. Interestingly, if you go to the history panel the tone curve changes are there, but when clicked on make no changes to the apperance of the tone curve, yet makes the appropriate changes to the image. 
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Keith Reeder
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2012, 06:45:49 AM »
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Actually, no it doesn't.

To you, Brad.

To me, it does.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 06:49:58 AM by Keith Reeder » Logged

Keith Reeder
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Schewe
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2012, 01:11:58 PM »
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It actually makes perfect sense to me that Lr 3 tone curve settings might be dropped in Lr 4: it's clear enough to me that they wouldn't give the same results anyway, so you're still going to have to rework the tone curve to accommodate the other new processes in PV 2012.

The current issue, which the engineers are working hard at, is that somehow, in the update process from LR3 to LR4, the point curve settings are misplaced. This is a current "bug" in the update process, but as I understand it, the settings have not actually been lost. I say misplaced because the engineers seem to be able to find the settings in the updated catalog, it's just that the settings are not showing up correctly in the image record.

One workaround depending on how you've handled .xmp metadata in LR3 is to take the images whose curve settings have been misplaced and read the .xmp from the file. If, like me you don't automatically write .xmp to files, you can do it manually in the LR3 catalog before updating the catalog to LR4.

As I understand it, the engineers are working on a "fix in place" for people whose point curve settings have been misplaced. Obviously, this is an unfortunate situation for people who have made extensive use of the point curve editor–note, it doesn't impact the parametric curves at all.

You might ask why the internal beta testers didn't find this issue...we are asking the same question. As you might expect, we've have many, many builds since the public beta. One of the first builds after the public one turned catalog updating back on. As far as I know, those builds of the catalog update did successfully convert all catalogs (all the way back to LR1). But somehow, it seems something in the last RC that went GM broke that tiny bit of the catalog update. We're just as shocked to find this bug on the GM as the engineers are. I just can't give any time frame for the fix.

So, if you are a heavy user of point curves, either use the workaround of writing and then re-reading the .xmp to recover the point curve settings or hold tight for a fix to be released.
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Morris Taub
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2012, 05:21:25 AM »
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it doesn't impact the parametric curves at all.

Are you saying that if i had an adjustment in the Tone Curve panel that just was 'linear' for a base to start work on my nef's, that those settings will still be there when i update my LR3 catalog to LR4?...I just want to make sure I understand...I do Tone Curve adjustments on many of the images I work on, well, when needed...working highlights down to shadows...but I've never used the point curve editor...

man, i hope this is the case...

As a 'side' question...is saving/optimizing my LR3 catalog all that's needed to be done before my upgrade to LR4?...maybe there's a thread here someplace on the best way to upgrade?...things we should or shouldn't do?...I've looked around, but haven't found one...

thanks Jeff for all your help...I'm just floored by what lightroom does/is...i started with film in the 1970's...this is like a dream i could never have imagined back then...kudos to thomas and all involved with photoshop/lightroom...just magic...
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kwalsh
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2012, 10:40:47 AM »
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Don't see this as a problem - as Stamper suggests, you've still got Lr 3.

Personally I have no intention of reworking my entire Lr 3 catalogue into Lr 4 - I'll just PV 2012 those of my existing images that I think will benefit from it, and convert all new images in Lr 4.

It actually makes perfect sense to me that Lr 3 tone curve settings might be dropped in Lr 4: it's clear enough to me that they wouldn't give the same results anyway, so you're still going to have to rework the tone curve to accommodate the other new processes in PV 2012.

Quote
To you, Brad.

To me, it does.

It is pretty clear you haven't bothered to read a single bit about this issue.  As already pointed out in the thread, this has nothing to do with PV2012 at all.  Why are you bringing that up again?  Read the original links, and actually read the thread.  The issue is entirely to do with PV2010.  You are contributing nothing to this thread because you aren't making the rudimentary effort to read the original links or peoples corrections to your misunderstanding of the problem.  Your opinion and comments are worthless because they aren't founded on the facts of the problem, they are now just noise obfuscating the discussion of people who bothered to read before posting.  If you want to be a functional member of this community rather than making a thoughtless reply multiple times in the post take a moment to actually read before posting - or just don't post.

As Schewe has pointed out it is in fact a known bug (there is no matter of opinion about it) and one that is being worked on at the moment (hurray!).

Ken
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