Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: J'Accuse  (Read 9396 times)
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014


WWW
« Reply #120 on: April 01, 2012, 06:45:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Firstly that is hardly a problem of digital vs film: the profusion of "gizmos", and lack of DOF buttons on some SLRs, goes back to about the dawn of AF in film cameras, as far as I recall.
Much earlier. The Canon A1 was a camera that could stump seasoned camera shop assistants at times.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014


WWW
« Reply #121 on: April 01, 2012, 06:50:14 AM »
ReplyReply

That's very interesting. I had forgotten just how profligate film was in its use of water - for washing the films, and then the prints. Gallons and gallons of water, just tipped down the sink. Especially with fibre-based papers, which needed hours of washing every time I printed. Back then, I thought nothing of it, and just turned on the tap. But now it would make me think twice, even though we are not short of water here in Cornwall.
I always felt uncomfortable about that and even worse was the chucking of noxious chemicals into the drains.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9765


« Reply #122 on: April 01, 2012, 02:59:11 PM »
ReplyReply

I always felt uncomfortable about that and even worse was the chucking of noxious chemicals into the drains.




Agreed; and then they introduced legislation to prevent it (UK), and you had to organize some form of collection... I'd already left by that time, I think, as I have no memory of doing it.

Rob C
Logged

jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014


WWW
« Reply #123 on: April 01, 2012, 07:43:42 PM »
ReplyReply

Legislation? - I don't recall ever hearing anything about that.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9765


« Reply #124 on: April 02, 2012, 03:20:44 AM »
ReplyReply

Legislation? - I don't recall ever hearing anything about that.

Yes, there was stuff in the BJP (of the time) about it. I think there were collection services set up to take the stuff away (or you had to collect and deliver to them) and extract the silver from the sludge. I left in '81, and I'd long been doing not a lot more than transparencies by then, so that's probably why I have no concrete memories of doing anything along those lines myself, only of knowing about it.

Rob C
Logged

MikeMac
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #125 on: April 02, 2012, 05:27:37 AM »
ReplyReply

I think I understand what Rob really means about the "golden age".

Here is an interview of my boss they did for a small retrospective of his work in Madrid: http://vimeo.com/31216410

I wouldn't like to be back on film age. But I'd like to live in the profession what those older guys have been living. I think the interview talks about what Rob is saying. (my boss is shooting digital and likes it, it's not about cameras, it's something else, and in this I agree with Rob, I don't see it now. Maybe it's there but I don't see it)

Thanks for posting that link, his words were fascinating, and as for Pepe's photography ... I hope one day to see prints rather than just low-res video.

There is a lot of what Pepe says that is relevant to this discussion, but to my mind it is what he doesn't say that is more interesting to this discussion and the thread in general.

Does he talk about this camera or that, this lens or that, this technological frustration or another, this upcoming camera that will ...? Nope, he talks about photography, about his love for the medium, and more importantly about his love for his subjects. Not only his words, but the love for his subject is evident on his face.

Compare that to many of the discussions and posters on this photography forum, that photography forum, or any other forum. Gizmo this, Brand X camera that, this one is crap, mine is best, this interface/design is not good ... blah blah.

I call BS on 'the golden age of photography' and 'digital vs film'. This, IMHO, is a product of our marketing driven age. We strive so hard to have that perfect experience. We fit in a photoshoot in our spare time and expect to be creative. Our ideals of perfection have been learned by 1000s of adverts, magazines, tv, blogs...

Having worked as a professional landscape photographer for 8 years; having lived, loved (and photographed) in the landscape for nearly all my years; and having run landscape photography workshops; I continue to be fascinated by people 'trying' to make photographs, in the way they think the camera will do the work, in their trying to fit it in, in trying to achieve a certain image.

We all lead busy lives so trying to find time can be hard, but perhaps if we stopped for longer to watch and empathise. Certainly in 'The Golden Age' people probably had more time to watch, to go on "clicking away through the moment. Watching is important for photography, or any art. We need to watch our subject, understand it, empathise with it or at least understand what we want our photograph to say about the subject or the moment. The guy I met on Northumberlands coast one day who had visited 3 locations (with about a 10-20min drive between each) over the course of one sunrise was far from the path.

We need time to suffer too. Not in that existential way, but in having time to give to something till we are exhausted from doing it, from letting it seep into our bones, from letting our subject get into us and our whole outlook being our vision of that subject.

And we want to achieve certain images, maybe successful or a pre-defined notion of beauty ones. Joe Cornish in the UK has a lot to answer for. How many of us try to emulate his work? How many super wide angle shots in a Joe Cornish style do we see in magazines/websites? Don't get me wrong, Joe's work is beautiful and I enjoy visits to his gallery and reading/viewing his books. But he is his own voice that is his response to his subject and his feelings on it.

As others have pointed out product marketing seduces us. And camera interfaces further compound this. Even if we don't use those 'scene' modes they still IMHO subliminally suggest to us that the subject or moment before us must fit a certain category. We are distracted by extras on the camera that flash and beep. Extras that may only work in certain situations forcing us to further categorise the subject.

And they look pretty, damn it if I haven't walked back to my own camera sat their in it's space age and trick glory, on that carbon fibre tripod, and thought "wow, that looks just the thing for making photographs".

I've spent the last year on a commission for the Royal Society of Wildlife Trusts producing 360x180 panoramic images and virtual tours covering the whole of the UK. As a commission it has been a true privilege to undertake, both in the subject and with a brilliant client who was fun to worth with and willing to take creative risks. I did a large part of my travel by bike and usually wild camped near to or on location for most of that year. I spent more time under canvas outside or under the skies than I spent time in my house. My empathy for the landscape during this time was unparalleled compared to any other time in my life. On the last month I was exhausted, ill and the weather was bad so I had to slum it and resort to hotels. Immediately I felt my empathy drop, my understanding and love for the landscape and my subjects reduced. It was an awful way to end such a sublime journey.

I took delight in the photography too. Whilst the panoramic setup to make parallax free shots for easy stitching looks a bit complex (to some), after a while I reduced the setup to simple, it became ritual. Screwing the head together, manual metering after evaluating the whole scene, manual focus always the same at 2.5m (with a fisheye at f/11 this is plenty dof). Wait, watch, wait, watch, click click click. Record sound after careful listening. Make supplementary photographs of details within the scene.

And then tieing it all together on computer. Photoshop became a joy (really), watching the image stitch on the screen like a print in the tray of developer, editing the sound, pulling it into a virtual tour with all the sounds and supporting photography, going full screen with the final tour and letting it spin away with the sound of waves, birds, people, bikes, dogs, it took me right back into the moment.

So here's my point. It's not the manufacturers at fault. It's us. Ignore the marketing, ignore the menus no matter how good or bad they are, whether you are Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Hasselblad doesn't matter a damn. Rather than loving your camera, learn to love your subject, watch it, caress it with your thoughts, pre-visualise, whatever, just get into your subject.

J'Accuse? Yes, I accuse YOU, (and me).

PS Lots of coffee today and I think the straightforward Russian attitude is starting to rub off on me:-) No offence meant, especially to workshop clients who were always fun to work and photograph with.
Logged
Tony Jay
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568


« Reply #126 on: April 02, 2012, 05:45:28 AM »
ReplyReply

Rather than loving your camera, learn to love your subject, watch it, caress it with your thoughts, pre-visualise, whatever, just get into your subject.

You do have a point!

Regards

Tony Jay
Logged
wildlightphoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 422


« Reply #127 on: April 02, 2012, 07:47:46 AM »
ReplyReply

So here's my point. It's not the manufacturers at fault. It's us. Ignore the marketing, ignore the menus no matter how good or bad they are, whether you are Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Hasselblad doesn't matter a damn. Rather than loving your camera, learn to love your subject, watch it, caress it with your thoughts, pre-visualise, whatever, just get into your subject.

J'Accuse? Yes, I accuse YOU, (and me).

Thank you!!!
Logged
theguywitha645d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 906


« Reply #128 on: April 02, 2012, 08:55:11 AM »
ReplyReply

But if it is not the camera's fault, who can I blame for my crumby photographs?
Logged
Richowens
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 742



« Reply #129 on: April 02, 2012, 10:04:16 AM »
ReplyReply

The dog..........?
Logged

MikeMac
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #130 on: April 02, 2012, 12:07:26 PM »
ReplyReply

But if it is not the camera's fault, who can I blame for my crumby photographs?

I'm sure this is tongue in cheek, but it's a good point none the less. For me when it goes wrong it's a sliding scale between "I'm an idiot" to "I'm just not getting in the groove with this subject today" to "I'm not good enough to photograph this. Yet!"

I mean the last one, there are days when I don't even get the camera out as I would rather not take a photograph than try to make one that didn't fit the subject. That would be disrespectful. And that is why I didn't make much money as a professional:-(

With the exception of focus issues (i.e. autofocus picking the wrong subject, which is really my fault for not checking) I can't think of a single time when the camera was at fault.

BTW, I've not see any of your work, but I'm sure it's not crumby. I mean, you've got a MFD if your username is anything to go by, how can it be bad with such a camera?Huh

Logged
theguywitha645d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 906


« Reply #131 on: April 02, 2012, 06:13:41 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm sure this is tongue in cheek, but it's a good point none the less. For me when it goes wrong it's a sliding scale between "I'm an idiot" to "I'm just not getting in the groove with this subject today" to "I'm not good enough to photograph this. Yet!"

I mean the last one, there are days when I don't even get the camera out as I would rather not take a photograph than try to make one that didn't fit the subject. That would be disrespectful. And that is why I didn't make much money as a professional:-(

With the exception of focus issues (i.e. autofocus picking the wrong subject, which is really my fault for not checking) I can't think of a single time when the camera was at fault.

BTW, I've not see any of your work, but I'm sure it's not crumby. I mean, you've got a MFD if your username is anything to go by, how can it be bad with such a camera?Huh



Mike, I did not type my post with a straight face. But thank you for your thoughtful reply. BTW, my Pentax 645D can take pretty mundane images even though the technical quality may be there--and unfortunately I cannot blame Pentax.
Logged
MikeMac
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2012, 03:49:48 AM »
ReplyReply

There was a bit of engineer bashing above, and looking for something light to add to the copyright discussion I found this old gem. As an ex-engineer I sympathised with much of the above, and much of the following. Sorry I don't know the original source, it appears a lot on the Internet so could be anyone, but thanks to him/her anyway. Enjoy, and have a good weekend all.


Understanding Engineers - Take One

Two engineering students were walking across campus when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?". The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike. She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, "Take what you want.". The second engineer nodded approvingly, "Good choice; the clothes probably wouldn't have fit."

Understanding Engineers - Take Two
To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Understanding Engineers - Take Three
A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers.
The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys? We must have been waiting for 15 minutes!"
The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such ineptitude!"
The pastor said, "Hey, here comes the greens keeper. Let's have a word with him."
"Hi, George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow, aren't they?"
The greens keeper replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters who lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."
The group was silent for a moment.
The pastor said, "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight."
The doctor said, "Good idea. And I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."
The engineer said, "Why can't these guys play at night?"

Understanding Engineers - Take Five
What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil
Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets.

Understanding Engineers - Take Seven
"Normal people ... believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet." -Scott Adams, The Dilbert Principle

Understanding Engineers - Take Eight
An architect, an artist and an engineer were discussing whether it was better to spend time with the wife or a mistress.
The architect said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid foundation for an enduring relationship.
The artist said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because of the passion and mystery he found there.
The engineer said, "I like both."
"Both?" they asked.
Engineer: "Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each assume you are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to the lab and get some work done."

Understanding Engineers - Take Nine
An engineer was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess."
He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.
The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week."
The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket.
The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want."
Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.
Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess, that I'll stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"
The engineer said, "Look I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that's cool."
Logged
Ray
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8517


« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2012, 04:12:20 AM »
ReplyReply

Two engineering students were walking across campus when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?". The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike. She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, "Take what you want.". The second engineer nodded approvingly, "Good choice; the clothes probably wouldn't have fit."

That's hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.  Grin
Logged
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9765


« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2012, 12:51:41 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks, Mike, winging its way to a couple of friends!

Rob C
Logged

wildlightphoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 422


« Reply #135 on: April 13, 2012, 05:24:15 PM »
ReplyReply

Questions recent college graduates ask on their first job:

The recent graduate with the engineering degree asks "How do we make this?"
The recent graduate with the business degree asks "How much will it cost?"
The recent graduate with the liberal arts degree asks "Would you like fries with that?"

Re: Understanding Engineers - pretty much true, according to my wife.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 05:25:50 PM by telyt » Logged
Peter McLennan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1327


« Reply #136 on: April 13, 2012, 05:47:57 PM »
ReplyReply

Three gentlemen are set to be executed by guillotine: a lawyer, a doctor and an engineer.  They are allowed the choice of "face-up" or "face-down".

Not wishing to witness his demise, the lawyer chooses face-down and lies down to await his fate. The blade descends with incredible force and speed, only to come to an abrupt stop just inches from his neck.  In accordance with tradition, if the mechanism fails, the victim is given a complete reprieve.  Wiping his brow with relief, the lawyer withdraws.

The doctor, too chooses face down.  Incredibly, again the blade stops just before impact and the doctor goes free.

The engineer chooses to meet his fate face-up and assumes the position on the block, gazing upwards with interest.  Just as the executioner is about to release the mechanism, the engineer yells "Stop!  Wait!  I think I see the problem!"
Logged
barryfitzgerald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 362


WWW
« Reply #137 on: April 15, 2012, 04:07:32 PM »
ReplyReply

Good enough is the enemy of rampant consumerism and I love every minute of it  Cool
So you want that nice 4k TV..$$ flies up for the makers, but wait 10 years down the road 4k is old hat it's not 8k and yes we get to spend even more money on buying the same product yet again.

Someone asked me if I'd like to update my DVD collection (which is quite considerable it must be said) to Blu ray. It would cost me a small fortune to do that, and I have to say DVD is for me...well it's good enough and yes nicer than those old VHS tapes too! I'm sure the movie companies would love to re-sell me the same films in a new higher def format..problem is I'm not suckering into that one not one bit.  Roll Eyes It's a great strategy I have to say keep selling the same thing over and over again super profit bubble is what I call it.

I didn't buy a DVD player when they first came out, a friend of mine did cost quite a lot of money. Years down the road DVD players cost peanuts.
In fact I don't buy cameras when they first hit the shelves I wait, prices fall..and issues that might be a problem we hope get ironed out. Ditto on computers I know the market and how it works never buy top end of anything esp computers, today's top end is tomorrows budget processor. It's the inevitable consequence of electronics it gets cheaper over time. By all means go mid range if you want..but you pay a hefty premium at the high point.

I'm sure companies hate my strategy I didn't rush out and buy an ipad because I don't want one, nor an iphone, nor a blu ray player. I buy what I need..maybe I'm overly cautious, maybe I'm tight fisted. But I do think we live in an overly commercial world frankly I'm sick of it really..everywhere you go it's shoved down your throat. And if we are completely honest, we don't even need half this junk anyway do we? Food for thought, someone has to say it

Logged
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9765


« Reply #138 on: April 16, 2012, 08:30:25 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm sure companies hate my strategy I didn't rush out and buy an ipad because I don't want one, nor an iphone, nor a blu ray player. I buy what I need..maybe I'm overly cautious, maybe I'm tight fisted. But I do think we live in an overly commercial world frankly I'm sick of it really..everywhere you go it's shoved down your throat. And if we are completely honest, we don't even need half this junk anyway do we? Food for thought, someone has to say it




And I'm glad that you did.

Trouble is, somewhere down the line those manufacturers still get you: my extensive shelves of taped music cassettes are no longer playable in the car. Only CDs fit and I have few of those I want to play too often. As with LPs of yesteryear, there are perhaps two good tracks per package. So, ages of making selected tapes from my permanent stuff are now waste outwith the home.

Bugger them all, yet again.

Rob C
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 07:01:32 AM by Rob C » Logged

MikeMac
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #139 on: April 17, 2012, 03:00:01 AM »
ReplyReply




And I'm glad that you did.

Trouble is, somewhere down the line those manufacturers still get you: my extensive shelves of taped music casettes are no longer playable in the car. Only CDs fit and I have few of those I want to play too often. As with LPs of yesteryear, there are perhaps two good tracks per package. So, ages of making selected tapes from my permanent stuff are now waste outwith the home.

Bugger them all, yet again.

Rob C

I used to love making up mix tapes. Tapes for parties, tapes for friends, tapes for girlfriends. It was great fun. I don't particularly regret their passing because I had such a great time with them when they were current.

I hate the waste though. We bought a new TV last year, a nice LCD model, despite the fact our old Sony Trinitron CRT was still in good working order. We didn't need it, it was only bought partly as we wanted to buy one, and partly as my wife wanted the Freeview channels and there wasn't space under the TV for a separate box. Pretty rubbish reasons, and the old TV straight to landfill as no-one wants them. I'm pretty embarrassed about it really because it is so wasteful.

Just to add a touch of irony, three months later we have moved to Russia and the new TV has had to go into storage whilst we are away! Now I feel really bad.

Maybe Barry is right, we should make the best of what we have. Or take the time to understand our own needs and chose accordingly rather than being dictated to by marketing and sales blurb. There is enough choice out there. Are all the choices really so bad that we can't find one that suits us?
Logged
Pages: « 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad