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Author Topic: P25+ RAW files: exposure rendering in Capture One Pro vs. some others  (Read 2660 times)
Frits
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« on: March 27, 2012, 11:33:03 AM »
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I have been using Capture One Pro for developing the RAW files of my Phase One 25+ back and the results have been excellent.

I took some test shots today which were perfectly exposed on the back's LCD as well as in C1 Pro.
Then I took the RAW files into Adobe Lightroom 4 and also into Photoshop CS 5 (which uses the same camera RAW engine) and to my surprise there was a huge difference, particularly in exposure. Where exposure in C1 was dead-on, it was very much underexposed in Lightroom / CS5 to the point that I needed to increase the exposure tab by some 1.6 stops to get to proper exposure.
I understand that there will be some differences in rendering from one software package to another, but the BIG difference in basic exposure surprised me a lot.

Thoughts, comments?
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Frits
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 12:52:40 PM »
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I have been using Capture One Pro for developing the RAW files of my Phase One 25+ back and the results have been excellent.

I took some test shots today which were perfectly exposed on the back's LCD as well as in C1 Pro.
Then I took the RAW files into Adobe Lightroom 4 and also into Photoshop CS 5 (which uses the same camera RAW engine) and to my surprise there was a huge difference, particularly in exposure. Where exposure in C1 was dead-on, it was very much underexposed in Lightroom / CS5 to the point that I needed to increase the exposure tab by some 1.6 stops to get to proper exposure.
I understand that there will be some differences in rendering from one software package to another, but the BIG difference in basic exposure surprised me a lot.

I'd consult with your dealer on such first-time-use questions. It's much faster and requires less back and forth.

But the short answer to this particular question is it's a bug. ACR/LR misread the P25+ raw file and misplace the "0" exposure position. Don't be alarmed; good quality can still be had. Though of course best quality will always be had in Capture One.

Also make sure your P25+ firmware is up to date and if you have especially old firmware (anything older than 484) make sure to consult your dealer on how to do the firmware update - you should not jump from very old firmware to the current firmware.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 12:59:17 PM »
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Thoughts, comments?

the best way to find out what is going is to check the real raw data histogram... that is something that most of commercial raw converters do not want you to see (and will not show) for a number of selfish reasons.
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Frits
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 01:05:24 PM »
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I'd consult with your dealer on such first-time-use questions. It's much faster and requires less back and forth.

But the short answer to this particular question is it's a bug. ACR/LR misread the P25+ raw file and misplace the "0" exposure position. Don't be alarmed; good quality can still be had. Though of course best quality will always be had in Capture One.

Also make sure your P25+ firmware is up to date and if you have especially old firmware (anything older than 484) make sure to consult your dealer on how to do the firmware update - you should not jump from very old firmware to the current firmware.
Thanks Doug for your explanation.
I have been using Capture One and intend to continue to do so - I like it a lot and obviously it is best for P1 backs. I was just curious when I opened the files in LR just for fun as I certainly will continue to work my files with Capture One Pro - so no big deal, but nice to know what is going on.
BTW, I do have the latest firmware installed.
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Frits
SecondFocus
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 08:03:51 PM »
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It has been my experience that the manufacturers RAW processing software produces the best result. I have done a lot of comparisons side by side to come to that conclusion. So for example, Canon files in Canon DPP, Phase One in Capture One and Leaf files in Leaf Capture.

With that said, I am exceedingly impressed with the latest version of Capture One Pro. The Leaf and Phase One files appear to be amazing and the colors, especially skin tones, appear to be more real on the Canon files that DPP.
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Ian L. Sitren
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 08:12:00 PM »
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I always do my P25+ files in C1. I have found ACR does not do a good job, but I think it has to do with Phase not really caring about ACR support. I need ACR for my Pentax because C1 will not support those files. ACR does a great job with the Pentax files.
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qwz
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 01:42:49 PM »
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Frits
There is two possibilities
a) bad support of P1 files by Adobe (no surprise here)
b) hidden inside software push to increase real sensitivity up to nominal value (no surprise too, but MFDB is not fied for High-ISO wars)

theguywitha645d
C1 probably will open 645D files after Adobe DNG converter?
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 05:52:07 PM »
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I have been using Capture One Pro for developing the RAW files of my Phase One 25+ back and the results have been excellent.

I took some test shots today which were perfectly exposed on the back's LCD as well as in C1 Pro.

Hi Frits,

Perfectly exposed? Did you use the film curve style or the linear curve style to draw that conclusion? The film curve suggests clipping in the Raw data when it's not the case. As said, Raw converters often do not show the real exposure level, it may require other tools (often only available for a Windows OS platform) to determine that.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 07:56:51 PM by BartvanderWolf » Logged
pjtn
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 07:39:38 PM »
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After playing around with a P25+ RAW file between Lightroom and Capture One I can see the latter is much better suited to the task. However if someone wanted to use Lightroom with a Phase One back the best result would be to export the RAW file as a DNG from Capture One, that improves the file dramatically. It still does not quite match the Capture One file colours though.

Thanks for supplying the RAW files too Frits, I'm still thinking on the camera and hopefully will let you know soon enough.

Peter
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Frits
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 07:55:50 AM »
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After playing around with a P25+ RAW file between Lightroom and Capture One I can see the latter is much better suited to the task. However if someone wanted to use Lightroom with a Phase One back the best result would be to export the RAW file as a DNG from Capture One, that improves the file dramatically. It still does not quite match the Capture One file colours though.

Thanks for supplying the RAW files too Frits, I'm still thinking on the camera and hopefully will let you know soon enough.

Peter
An interesting work-around Peter, thanks for sharing. Working these in Lightroom was really just a curiosity for me. I'll stick to Capture one for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.
For the rest: no rush at all. I took it out for some great candids of my little grand daughter this weekend  Smiley .
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Frits
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