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Author Topic: New 4k Sony  (Read 19407 times)
KevinA
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2012, 01:59:25 PM »
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Kevin

the c300 will work with a new wireless transmitter that's coming with the 1Dx .
here's the dope from canon :

What are some of the capabilities when the WFT-E6 is combined with the EOS C300?
Outstanding remote control possibilities, using nearly any web-enabled "smart-phone" or digital pad. Some of the camera controls which are possible include:

    Adjust focus, forward or backward (EF lenses on EOS C300)
    Adjust iris, shutter speed/angle, gain/ISO, White Balance
    Change image parameters
    View status display of camera
    Input metadata

The i.s. works on canon lenses that have i.s. built in.

I'm confident that canon is going to do cool things with the whole Cinema EOS system . They are just getting started. 
Thanks,
Tim


Thanks Tim.
That sounds interesting and useful, not exactly auto focus but most likely something a bit better for me, manual focus by remote.
IS on the lens, even more strange then the new 24-70 did not have IS.
Yes I really like the look of the 300c and I've liked the demos I have seen of it.

Kevin.

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Kevin.
bcooter
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« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2012, 02:30:05 PM »
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When the c300 was released I placed an order that second.  Liked the form factor (reminds me of a 16mm beaulieu) and thought how great Canon will have high iso and autofocus.

oops.  No autofocus.

You know Autofocus is not needed on a lot of what we do, but I've noticed a lot of advertising, episodic tv (which drives a lot of our current styles) is into a hand held type of look that is not jerky mtv, but not always smooth tracking either.

Maybe that's one of the reasons I've spent so much time on the Sony, because you can get that look without having a lot of people in the way pulling focus, checking focus, preview each cut, etc.

I have to admit I don't understand why Canon didn't go the autofocus addition.  I know "serious" film makers and dp's don't like autofocus, but a lot of film makers and dps that come from the film area are learning that their world is changing as fast as the still world did.

But I have to admit I love the look of the c300.  I do think it's expensive for what it is and as fast as cameras change I'm less worried about future proof file size as I am future proof electronic cameras.

Now in regards to the Sony 4k.  I'm interested, but want to test it first and most importantly how will Sony make the file so it goes into standard editorial suites and color grading software.

We'll see.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 02:36:11 PM by bcooter » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2012, 08:17:43 AM »
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I would be very surprised if the Sony is out of standart. But we've seen so many weired things.

Media Composer AMA arquitecture is particularly good on that aspect because it's very easy for them to add any new format at any time from any manufacturer.

I'm looking closely to the liughtworks pro release too. It should be there very soon, before summer for sure.
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Bern Caughey
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« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2012, 10:24:16 AM »
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"First Hands-On Review of the SONY FS700"

http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/first-hands-on-review-of-the-sony-fs700/
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2012, 11:27:50 AM »
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https://vimeo.com/39839187
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 12:00:08 PM »
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What's reassuring is that it seems they listened to the filmakers and not, as often, a marketing delirium packed with protective politics towards the pro line.

It will put Sony in a dominant position if others are really insisting in minimalist upgrades or insane prices for the good stuff we've seen.

Red is starting to have serious competitors.
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bcooter
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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 12:54:06 PM »
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This is only the second time I've seen a company come out with a lower model that offers more than the expensive alternative (F3).  (Canon did this with the 5d2).

In talking to people today, in the U.S.  Sony is kind of a secret.  Most use RED or Allexa Some use Panasonic, but nobody talks about the fs100 and even my camera rep knows nothings about the new Sony fs700.

Go figure.

The thing is IMO when we're talking about convergence, the FS100/700 would be the perfect camera to move still photographers over to the Sony brand.

Let's face it, having one set of lenses in A mount that will autofocus, a few E-mounts, two Sony still cameras, a fs100 and a fs700 and you'd be good to go in about any production.

The fact the video cameras smoothly and smartly autofocus and have a simple sound mixing system is not to be underestimated. 

Sure, a lot of our projects are many multiple crew and we can budget in focus and sound, but as this business tightens up, the ability to confidently hit focus and sound without extra crew is not something to be taken lightly.

Also sometimes you want to go out by yourself to shoot insets, where all you want is camera and a small support.   This is the camera made for that.

I'm stoked, though want to see the results.  The only issue I have with it is the avchd (or whatever it's called) as it does not play natively on a mac for quick review.

IMO

BC
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fredjeang
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« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 01:43:41 PM »
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They play perfectly fine on PCs  (6th smiley from the right)
So as the QT files (6th smiley from the left)

Avchd is problematic to review, it's crap for editing.
Avid resisted a lot before finally accepting the heresy and enabled to import those files natively.

But Sony is the silent tiger hidden behind the bush. When I saw their latest DSLRs generations, nobody was taking them seriously, but I observed that the specs where going on a very good direction.
They seem to understand and beleive more on the convergence stuff that never comes. They've been doing this silently those latest years, listening a lot to their clients. When the tiger will jump, it'll be too late. It seems that it showed its claws.

We are a generation, for cultural and economical reasons, IMO, that want it all. We want a well designed camera, solid built but not big, powerfull, fast, reliable, versatile, still capable, we want built NDs, high-speed, versatile mount, good sound  etc... and cheap. The manufacturer that brings that on the table will dominate the market. (and not only the low-end because something is sure, they cut budgets on the high-end too)

You hitted the point with: "the ability to confidently hit focus and sound without extra crew is not something to be taken lightly"

We're the first generation multitask-crafts. Technology has to colaborate to help us acheiving this. To do the work of 3 people, as good as 3 people, we need the tech, we depend much more on it.

Before it was a specialist world. I know that many high-end specialists and long time motion pros are watching all this with a clear disdain but the world has changed and the rules too.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 02:04:46 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 02:09:11 PM »
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Im not sure the sony is really a silent tiger.. I mean in the BBC everything is sony - big cameras, and the VJs using EX1s or Z1s (or whatever they are called)

---

F3 vs FS100

F3 has instant playback; XDCam, SDi out to 'the village' or the 'Sat truck' or the 'Off-board recorder' - the BBC 'demands' 50MBs codec so that requiires an ofboard recorder for the EX or F3 (or FS100)
IMO the F3 is 'worth it' if you are not setting your own rules but tied up in a traditional production hourse or fast turnaroud
Of course the 700 will have many of those things that the F3 offers too once a recorder is in place
The C300 is still the only 'BBC approved' of the bunch at 50mbs internal codec

---

Yep the FS is (was) little known somehow hyped out by the F3 and then C300

To me it met my 'personal spec'
No moire
cheap*
1080p
Onboard XLR
Cine sized sensor
Big HDMI
..with the bonus of AF and 60p

The 700 does that and more..

Best

SMM


*cheap isnt even driven by poverty! its 'keeping my powder dry for a future raw cam be that Scarlet, FS700 whatever





« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 02:20:20 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 02:32:19 PM »
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I'm about the same as you and coincide in your desires.

Yes, Sony has been on broadcast forever. I meant a silent tiger in the niche we are. They bought Minolta, nobody cared really and almost no pro are using them but Minolta team had extremely good engineers and they been learning and getting better with each release. They are playing the convergence game or at least cameras that are superbly specs for people who have not a major broadcast mediums. They have long experience in video. If the last decade was Canon, this one could be Sony.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 03:29:44 PM »
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What I don't like with the Sony and Panasonic lenses is that they frankly feel toyish. I know...if you AF and it works you hardly touch the lens, but when you touch it it's horrible.

Imagine your wife with a plastic underwear. I prefer Chantal Thomass lingery to be honest. Same with lenses.
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ziocan
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« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2012, 04:48:24 AM »
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The thing is IMO when we're talking about convergence, the FS100/700 would be the perfect camera to move still photographers over to the Sony brand.

Let's face it, having one set of lenses in A mount that will autofocus, a few E-mounts, two Sony still cameras, a fs100 and a fs700 and you'd be good to go in about any production.


that is what I have been doing and saying for the past few years.

with a bunch of alpha and nex lenses, a couple of a900, a nex7, an fs100 and maybe a soon to be added fs700. i'm pretty much all set.
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ziocan
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« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2012, 04:56:32 AM »
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Sony has not been much of a silent tiger has someone pointe out.
the Sony f35 has been used for so many hollywood features films, even in 3d. Avatar was shot with the f35. one "pirate of Caribbean as well.
The predecessor of the f35 was largely used as well.

And the F65 is the new state of the art in motion picture.
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Bern Caughey
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« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2012, 10:23:52 AM »
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The only issue I have with it is the avchd (or whatever it's called) as it does not play natively on a mac for quick review.

While not a professional solution, I use Movist, or VLC, for quick review of AVCHD footage on Macs.

And HD Quick Look for previewing thumbnails.

http://mac.softpedia.com/progClean/Movist-Clean-30183.html

http://www.shedworx.com/hdquicklook
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:25:25 AM by Bern Caughey » Logged
Bern Caughey
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« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2012, 11:38:05 AM »
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the BBC 'demands' 50MBs codec so that requiires an ofboard recorder for the EX or F3 (or FS100)

Sam,

Couldn't find the info on the net so I wonder if the FS100 is BBC, & EBU, approved for HD when used with a recorder? Seems it should be, but I couldn't find the White Papers.

Best,
Bern
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 11:41:18 AM by Bern Caughey » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2012, 11:51:04 AM »
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Sam,

Couldn't find the info on the net so I wonder if the FS100 is BBC, & EBU, approved for HD when used with a recorder? Seems it should be, but I couldn't find the White Papers.

Best,
Bern

I cant find it either - I think the man who tests picks cameras driven by hype or something - he's done the C300 already, revelled in destroying the 5d2 etc

Id just say I was shooting on an F3 !

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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bcooter
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« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2012, 12:25:28 PM »
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I cant find it either - I think the man who tests picks cameras driven by hype or something - he's done the C300 already, revelled in destroying the 5d2 etc

Id just say I was shooting on an F3 !

S

It's funny, years ago, (name unmentioned) shot a documentary with a Canon XL1.   It got big play on ABC before cable was so dominate.

Anyway, it got such a great review, the ABC execs wanted to see the filmakers production company which turned out to be a mac, an xl1 and a basement.

They were shocked and invited him into their offices with the promise that he never tell anyone how he did this as the network had just spend many millions revamping their vieo production workflow from cameras to editing.

Anyway, what is broadcast quality?    Whatever is broadcast.

High Def is a moving object, bps is questionable, the whole idea is for it to look good and fit into a budget.  I think people would be shcoked and surprised at the number of sports and live events that are shot with old standard def eng's and broadcast in faux high def, though remember, any high def coming through the cable, or satallite depends on bandwith, carrier, network volume.

Imo


BC
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 12:48:39 PM by bcooter » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2012, 12:51:54 PM »
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Canon has had so much opportunity to get it right, though so many times they have hobbled their equipment they are the boy that cried wolf.

I hope they make a great product, really do, but I always have a lingering thought that once they make a super duper camera it will be missing something, so we have to buy the next super duper camera.

I could run a list of Canon misses and they would go on for two pages.

IMO

BC
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2012, 01:53:51 PM »
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High Def is a moving object, bps is questionable, the whole idea is for it to look good and fit into a budget.  I think people would be shcoked and surprised at the number of sports and live events that are shot with old standard def eng's and broadcast in faux high def, though remember, any high def coming through the cable, or satallite depends on bandwith, carrier, network volume.


Its all pony - but in the UK there is a big 'ticket' in shooting BBC approved format

Nothing to do with the image - all about box ticking people behind desks

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2012, 02:03:35 PM »
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Sony taking over the world of the still-mo people?

On paper they have a lot - but the stills camera - are they on the radar - do they have a fullframe 16-24mp still camera .. I dont even know
Does it shoot video ? at 25fps with manual control ? at 5d3/d800 quality

And the lenses - on paper they are getting a range together 70-200 2.8 is a staple, fast fifty, 20 2.8 - really thats all I use for stills
I have a feeling the MF feel (for video) is horrible - but maybe AF with video is the way forward - Im certainly a full time AFer for stills

The thing is the (still) cameras just are not on my radar, nor those lenses

Not to mention CaNikon - I know where to get it serviced, my mates all have CaNikon - so I can borrow in a crisis - most stills people are deep into CaNikon

Of course sony e-mount takes nikon, nikonG, contax, PL, whatever

Im pretty happy with a Sony vid camera and my nikon stills kit

S




« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 02:06:47 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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