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Author Topic: Soft Proof - I can't color match  (Read 4315 times)
Adam L
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« on: April 03, 2012, 12:52:38 PM »
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I've watched the LR4 softproof video, it all seems so easy.  Set the two pics side by side and use the HSL scrubber to tweak the color.

I'm tweaking and a tweaking but can't get the two to look the same.  No out of gamut warnings.    Is there a more precise way to match color or do I trade in my eyeballs for a better pair?
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 11:36:42 PM »
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Have you tried using the other controls, inclusing the adjustment brushes, as well as the HSL controls? Also with some photos you may never be able to get an exact match for a simple reason. Other working spaces (sRGB, Adobe RGB(1998)) and device specific profiles may not be large enough to contain all ofthe colors in the Lightroom's native ProPhoto RGB sized gamut.
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Ellis Vener
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Creating photographs for advertising, corporate and industrial clients since 1984.
Schewe
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 11:43:37 PM »
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Is there a more precise way to match color or do I trade in my eyeballs for a better pair?

There are two main modifications you'll need to make, tome curve (tome mapping) and HSL (Hue, Saturation and Lightness).

Maybe it's your eyeballs, I don't know. But I find the ability to do a Before/After and making a Proof Copy )VC) pretty easy to use and it gets me very close to matching the eventual results I want...
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2012, 01:22:49 AM »
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You don't state whether you are using magnification to attempt the colour matching.
Also, is this an issue with all images or only one or two?

In addition, is the colour matching to taste or does it have to be exact (as for product photography fro example?

With more information I feel sure that the combined wisdom of the LuLa community may well be able to help more effectively.

Regards

Tony Jay
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Adam L
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 04:18:20 AM »
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Thank you for helping.   It's not all colors.  I'm struggling with an orange/red toned flower.   I don't need it to be exact, I just thought I'd be able to get it closer to the original.   I have not tried the tone mapping controls, I'll give that a shot tonight.
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leuallen
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 08:18:05 AM »
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Ah flowers. Sometimes they contain colors and saturation that is just not in the paper so no matter what you do with a softproof it will not satisfy. I have a beautiful shot of a Seashell Cosmos that I cannot get to print well. It has magenta-purplish-redish petals that just are not in the gamut. Compared to the screen version, the softproof always looks flat. I have tried everything I can think of but I cannot get this color to pop.

Larry
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walter.sk
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 11:18:04 AM »
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Thank you for helping.   It's not all colors.  I'm struggling with an orange/red toned flower.   I don't need it to be exact, I just thought I'd be able to get it closer to the original.   I have not tried the tone mapping controls, I'll give that a shot tonight.
You don't say, but I am guessing that your paper is a matte-surface paper that takes matte-black ink.  While some of the newer ones, like Epson Hotpress Natural or White have great dynamic range for matte papers, saturated reds may be impossible to print with the vividness they have on the screen.  One of the things about choosing papers is that you also have to take into account the strengths and weakness of the paper, and choose the images you print on those papers accordingly.
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Adam L
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 03:55:00 PM »
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I have the....don't shoot me when I destroy the name....Carson Byrita Photographique on an Epson 3880.   I am not seeing out of gamut warnings on either the monitor - the newish NEC wide gamut one recommended on this site - or the printer. 

Good thing I'm only a weekend hack.  I'd never survive if I had to make a living off my images. 
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walter.sk
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 04:59:44 PM »
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I have the....don't shoot me when I destroy the name....Carson Byrita Photographique on an Epson 3880. 
Go to the Canson website and download the profile for the Epson 3880 and Baryta Photographique.  Install it on your computer, and use the Epson paper setting suggested by Canson.  Then you can softproof using the Canson profile.  I use it with the Epson 4900, and it is a quite good profile.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2012, 03:16:14 AM »
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We are starting to get somewhere now.

One cannot softproof without an ICC profile for the paper/printer combination required.

Regards

Tony Jay
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WPalank
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 11:23:39 PM »
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....don't shoot me when I destroy the name....Carson Byrita Photographique...

Why would anyone shoot you? By far my most favorite paper. What am I missing?
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2012, 11:27:05 PM »
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I agree.

Name-mangling nothwithstanding!

Regards

Tony Jay
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WPalank
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2012, 10:04:56 AM »
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Name-mangling nothwithstanding!


Obvious this morning, doh. A bit too much of the Easter wine yesterday I fear, on my part. Wink
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Adam L
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 05:11:42 PM »
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Thanks all, I have another problem.  I am certain I'm following proper work processes.  I have the paper printer profile selected in LR.  The softproof matches the file, I see the intent is relative so I use that setting in the print module.   I have enough pixels to set the resolution to 300 ppi.   Media type is glossy. 

The print settings use high quality, set to color with color management turned off (No color adjustment).  The paper is set to Canson's recommended Premium Semi Gloss.

My new problemo?  The darkest shades are not so dark and there is a blue cast in its place.

Ink cartridges show about 1/3 remaining across all colors.   I'm now going to cut my paper in half sizes, getting $$$ over here.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 05:22:38 PM »
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Hi Adam

How is your monitor profiled and how bright or dark is it set to in cd/m2?

Regards

Tony Jay
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Adam L
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 05:46:05 PM »
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I"m afraid I've not color corrected my monitor.  I let the brightness fluctuate based on the ambient room light in the room.  I'm pretty certain this isn't it, but I do need to get a spectometer thingy.  I assumed this NEC PA241 wouldn't be the real problem.

I went to the printer section in lula and am running with a clogged nozzle theory.  The printer has been cleaning for about 20+minutes and is on it's second piece of paper, still running tests.  The first page is riddled with empty squares and the two top right ones are virtually gone.  I hope to chalk this up to user error and will report back after the next test print.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 06:00:38 PM »
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Adam you may have a problem with your printer but honestly if you have not calibrated your monitor then you will have ABSOLUTELY no idea what your printer will produce.
The wierd colour casts that you mention could well be due to your monitor.

Do yourself a favour and buy the "Camera to Print and Screen" tutorial published by LuLa and go through it and learn how to colour manage your workflow.
This may sound a bit trite but I bought this tutorial before I bought a printer and worked through the whole thing a few times.
When I bought the printer (Epson Pro 7900) I only ever had one issue when I accidently allowed double colour management to occur.
Other than that performance has been faultless.
The Kudo's go to Michael and Jeff - all I did was follow instructions!

Regards

Tony Jay
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Adam L
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 06:14:13 PM »
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Thanks Tony.  I am happy to report that I am both a Camera to Print and LR 3&4 tuturial devotee.   It was the dreaded clogged nozzle syndrome.  My print now matches!

I understand your point and had an 'old' spectormeter with my first computer set up.  I've neglected to upgrade to the wide gamut version.  It's always something.   In the middle of this fiasco I got a warning saying my maintenance tray needs to be changed.  I didn't know I had one of those.  $30 poof.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 06:17:53 PM »
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Good luck Adam!

You won't go wrong by buying a more up-to-date spectrophotometer.
The monitor you are using is fantastic - designed for high-end photographic editing.

Happy printing!

Regards

Tony Jay
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leuallen
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2012, 06:55:24 PM »
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By all means, get the Spectraview solution for your monitor (I assume it supports Spectraview, go to the NEC website and check the specs for your monitor).

I had an EyeOne and when I got my new monitor (NEC), I got it with the Spectraview. Much better results and much easier calibration than EyeOne.

My prints are a close match to the monitor.

Larry
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