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Author Topic: New Metallic type paper  (Read 8439 times)
kuau
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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2012, 04:40:24 PM »
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Do any of the Metallic papers work with the HPZ3200?
If so which one works the best?
Thanks
Steven
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Sinar arTec, Leaf Aptus II 7 AFI, 35, 70, 135mm Sinaron lenses,  HP Z3200 PS Printer
Stefan Fiedler
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2012, 09:15:26 AM »
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Does any of the metallic inkjet papers come in 60inch rolls?

Regards,
Stefan
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 09:30:57 AM »
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Do any of the Metallic papers work with the HPZ3200?
If so which one works the best?
Thanks
Steven

Funny you should ask. Yesterday I asked the sales rep at Breathing Color why they don't make Paper Presets for the HP Z series machines available for the Vibrance Metallic. He conceded that they don't but didn't have a rationale. I'm considering making a Z3200 preset for the BC Vibrance, and I'll guess that I'd just use as a starting point a glossy media type with the internet profile-making ability. Maybe others will have some insight regarding the most rational selecting in making a custom paper preset with the Z3200.

I'm still pretty excited about this Breathing Color Vibrance Metallic paper. The few samples I've made on our Epson 4900 really do have a character that I haven't seen in any inkjet print before, so long as the paper is paired with the right image content.

John Caldwell
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kuau
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2012, 01:43:33 PM »
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John,
I just got in my test roll from BC, I ended up using the Moab SlickRock Pearl .OMS file then did a calibration then a profile.
Should have some results by the end of the day.

There seems to be a lot of "Metallic" papers coming out and really wonder if there is really any difference between any of them.

Steven
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Sinar arTec, Leaf Aptus II 7 AFI, 35, 70, 135mm Sinaron lenses,  HP Z3200 PS Printer
John Caldwell
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2012, 01:58:19 PM »
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Nice, Steven. May I ask why you used the Moab Slick Rock Pearly .OMS as a starting point rather than, say, one of the HP glossy papers? I'll trust that since the Moab is a metallic, it's reasonable to assume that they had done the research to look for the best ink limits and such, so starting with Moab's .OMS makes sense.

Have you used the Moab metallic, by the way? If so, is it an interesting paper?

Not being critical of your approach, just curious.

John Caldwell
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 02:03:11 PM by John Caldwell » Logged
Atlex.com
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2012, 02:43:16 PM »
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You can always try a sample pack or our metallic paper.  PSMSAM is the product number.  It contains 3 sheets of Metallic Glossy, Metallic Pearl, Pure Gold, Pure Silver and Moonglow.  Our papers are pretty much similar to Moabs versions, but at a lower price.  Our paper is part of our Simply Elegant line.

Atlex.com
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2012, 02:48:05 PM »
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Regarding the Atlex metallics, does anyone know the basis of the requirement for a solvent spray finishing step? Is this becaase the surface is mechanically fragile? Several here have guess aloud that Mitsubishi is the maker of several rebranded metallics, so I wonder that if the Atlex and, say, Red River are the same metallic papars, why one would mandate a solvent protection and the other not.

John Caldwell
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2012, 02:57:52 PM »
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So far I have only seen 2 kinds of metallic paper, the Moab Slickrock Metallic Pearl RC- Red River Polar Pearl Metallic RC is one and then there is a metallic paper for the Canon dry minilab called Dream Labo Metallic Silky RC which has a more metallic paint surface, dye compatible only I guess as that machine has 7 dyes. Very different effect between the two types.

There is a 260gsm Pearlescent RC paper from Mitsubishi with three variations in surface texture that is seen with different brand names and on some Metallic added but it is Pearlescent in appearence.


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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
400+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
Extended: Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico,
NEW added: Tetenal-Mitsubishi, NEW halfway: Kodak-Bonjet,
NEW to do: Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Sihl
Would like to get samples: InkPress-JonCone




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John Caldwell
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2012, 03:01:46 PM »
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Ernst, Are you saying that the Moab Slickrock and Red River Polar Metallic are the same material, just rebranded? Are they a Mitsubishi product? Don't mean to put you on the spot is this violates your consulting relationships.

Thanks,

John Caldwell
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 03:23:38 PM »
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Ernst, Are you saying that the Moab Slickrock and Red River Polar Metallic are the same material, just rebranded? Are they a Mitsubishi product? Don't mean to put you on the spot is this violates your consulting relationships.

Thanks,

John Caldwell

Having the sheets next to one another and the spectral plots of front and back I do not see a difference. I guess SpectrumViz is at a point where companies like to have their media range included + their paper distribution links.  If not there are other ways to get the samples. There is no consulting done other than to the readers of my messages. The donation clock is stuck at $ 5.- for 6 months so that will not get worse either.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
400+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
Extended: Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico,
NEW added: Tetenal-Mitsubishi, NEW halfway: Kodak-Bonjet,
NEW to do: Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Sihl
Would like to get samples: InkPress-JonCone
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2012, 05:38:43 AM »
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John,
I just got in my test roll from BC, I ended up using the Moab SlickRock Pearl .OMS file then did a calibration then a profile.
Should have some results by the end of the day.

There seems to be a lot of "Metallic" papers coming out and really wonder if there is really any difference between any of them.

Steven


Steven, Any results with the Breathing Color Vibrance Metallic on the Z3200? Curious to hear of your experience.

John Caldwell
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Atlex.com
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« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2012, 08:46:23 AM »
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Just to answer some of these questions (already informed John), but most of the metallics are from the same plant and rebranded.  Gold and Silver have a type of fragile coating that requires the solvent spray to make the ink stick properly; but the quality and finishing product is well worth it.  We have personally done tests and love the outcome.  You can use any solvent spray for digital printing (there isn't just one version for this).

We will sell our version at a cheaper price than most others will; like Moab Slickrock.

As for the 60" rolls, due to the metallic ability, these won't be possible to make from what I was told.  44" is the largest size the manufacturing plant is able to create.

Metallic profiles would just be the printer profiles for the finish.

Metallic Gloss- Premium Glossy w/ Photo Blk
Metallic Pearl- Premium Luster w/ Photo Blk
Pure Gold- Semigloss w/ photo blk
Pure Silver- Premium Luster w/ photo blk

These are our personal brand names from our Simply Elegant line, but the finish would be the same as other companies.

sales@atlex.com
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2012, 04:48:40 PM »
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I did run test prints on the Atlex five different metallics offered in their sample pack today. I'll disqualify myself from being able to judge three of these papers, other than to say that I hate them deeply, and can't imagine what kind of photographic content one would choose to print on the Pure Silver, Pure Gold or Moonglow. These papers offer basically the appearance of any paper you have in mind, but only after spray painting it with metallic silver or gold model airplane paint. The inkjet print appearance follows that idea quite neatly, in my mind. Truly awful, if one is expecting an image to render in any linear way as it would with the papers we normally discuss here - but possibly interesting to the artist creating something outside the box. I'll certainly accept the premise that there is no other way you'll achieve this look without using these three Atlex papers, Pure Silver, Pure Gold or Moonglow. As a side note, the Pure Silver and Pure Gold exhibited heavy ink pooling and coalescence of ink passes until I dealt with the driver settings on our 4900. In summary I now understand why Atlex posts no ICC profiles for these three papers: Worrying about custom ICC profiles for these papers would be like insisting that you measure a tree trunk with a micrometer; marking it with chalk; and cutting it with an axe.

The Atlex Chrome Glossy is a nice paper and will be fundamentally familiar to anyone who has tried the Red River Polar Metallic, the Breathing Color Vibrance Metallic, or the Moab Slickrock - and probably others. I like these papers and what they can offer to the right image.

The 5th remaining Atlex paper is the Metallic Pearl, and this occupies an interesting slot that is between a pearlescent surface - say Canson Baryta Photographique, Ilford GFS or Museo Silver Rag- and a metallic surfae. This paper, the Pearl, is the most interesting to me in that I'm not personally aware of any similar material. That said, I'd probably choose the Chrome Glossy, the paper that most resembles what I now regard as familiar in character, when I want that look.

As an aside, Red River today announced that their Polar Metallic will be available in 300 gram/square meter weight, as of next week. RR tells me it's the same surface, so any ICC profile that was good with the original Red River Polar Metallic 255g material will still be good.

Another aside: I did create a Z3200 Preset for the Breathing Color Vibrance Metallic, using the HP Glossy media (not sure of the exact vocabulary in the HP driver) with standard  ink limits and platen. Initial impression is that there will be no reason you can't make this paper style work on a Z machine.

Best to all,

John Caldwell
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 05:41:10 PM by John Caldwell » Logged
Larry Heath
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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2012, 09:07:49 PM »
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Hello to all, this is my first time posting here; I was fascinated by this thread and can’t help but jump in at the deep end of the pool.

With regard to this discussion of metallic papers I can’t provide any information regarding the relative merits of one metallic paper maker over another, or who is actually making the papers, or even if they compare at all to Kodak’s paper, which I must confess I have never laid eyes on. But, having just this afternoon made my first print on some of BC’s Vibrance Metallic paper, as well as their Vibrance Rag and Gloss using BC’s ICC’s on my 9880, I must admit to being suitably impressed by the Metallic. Particularly with the depth of detail and tonal range that can be visualized in the shadows. Under standard viewing light there does seem to be some difference between the BC Metallic and the Gloss, but as light is added the Metallic does become significantly more pleasing, to my untrained eye at least. Again tonal gradation and detail in the shadows seem enhanced on the metallic paper. With the challenging file I chose to test these papers with the Gloss paper showed some blocked shadow areas as expected, the metallic less so, again when viewed under standard lighting. Taking both prints into harsh direct sunlight the Gloss papers shadows were still blocked but the apparently blocked areas of the Metallic papers shadows came delicately alive with detail and tonal gradations. If I can make prints that benefit from this, remains to be seen.

In the for what it’s worth column I think I know what is being used to achieve the wet paint ”metallic” look the BC Metallic paper seems to have. The bare paper I handled this afternoon very much reminds me of the pearl white metallic I have seen on some high end aftermarket car finishes. I think the Metallic papers may have a dose of Rheoscopic Concentrate added to the ink receptor layer, anyway that is my guess. Maybe someone with more experience in these matters can set me straight.

Later Larry
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2012, 06:59:42 AM »
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In the for what it’s worth column I think I know what is being used to achieve the wet paint ”metallic” look the BC Metallic paper seems to have. The bare paper I handled this afternoon very much reminds me of the pearl white metallic I have seen on some high end aftermarket car finishes. I think the Metallic papers may have a dose of Rheoscopic Concentrate added to the ink receptor layer, anyway that is my guess. Maybe someone with more experience in these matters can set me straight.

Later Larry


Welcome to the discussion, Larry. Hadn't considered Rheoscopic Concentrate as a source of the look, but the similarity to the pearlescent shampoo market is understandable.
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