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Author Topic: New Metallic type paper  (Read 11802 times)
natas
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« on: April 05, 2012, 12:23:48 PM »
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So breathingcolor has there own version of Metallic paper. They claim this stuff is closer to Kodak's Metallic process. Has anyone tried this stuff? I may pick up a trial roll to see how well it does on my 7900.

More info: https://www.breathingcolor.com/action/bc_shop/223/
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Johnny_Boy
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 12:48:28 PM »
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Interesting claims made there "Vibrance Metallic is the first and currently the only metallic photo paper that delivers a comparable look, feel, and quality of the Kodak® metallic process."

I wonder if that means it is different from anyone else's metallic papers which are all made by Mitsubishi.

I've never found inkjet super gloss or metallic papers that keeps the look after it is printed. This is because the ink covers up much of the gloss and metallic sheen underneath. Real photographic silver RC papers do not have this problem as the gloss and metallic reflective surface is on top of the Silver halide.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 01:53:50 PM by Johnny_Boy » Logged
neile
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 12:12:19 AM »
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I'm extremely skeptical that this is anything other than the Mitsubishi paper.

Neil
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Neil Enns
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 02:23:03 AM »
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So far I measured three metallic papers, the Red River Polar Pearl Metallic and two Arca Proline, one satin, one gloss. To the eye they looked similar but the Arca type showed a higher white reflectance and OBAs in the paper base where the Red River did not have both.


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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 02:38:18 AM »
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pretty hard to duplicate the look of Kodak metallic, just not the same to put ink on top vs. translucent dyes.  Part of the metallic look is the pure gloss, just can't get the same perfect gloss with inkjet.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 03:51:11 AM »
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I've never found inkjet super gloss or metallic papers that keeps the look after it is printed. This is because the ink covers up much of the gloss and metallic sheen underneath. Real photographic silver RC papers do not have this problem as the gloss and metallic reflective surface is on top of the Silver halide.

Dye inks with more transparency than the pigment inks we now mainly use should deliver more similarity to Kodak Endura Metallic with its CMY chromogene dyes on top of the metallic reflective layer. It is very unlikely that the chromogene color layer of Kodak's version is beneath the metallic layer. Metallic layers usually have a high opacity and any color gamut would be lost if it was the other way around. Gloss of whatever kind is always on top and only dyes, whether coupled chromogene or inkjet inks will deliver best gloss surfaces if no extra gloss varnishes or laminations are applied.

Next to the above, Kodak's metallic layer could still be of a unique reflective quality.

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kdphotography
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 08:19:53 AM »
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I'm extremely skeptical that this is anything other than the Mitsubishi paper.

Neil

Neil,

This won't be another re-hash of papers.  The "pearl metallics" currently offered are nice, but this new metallic should have more punch.  I was able to look at some of the early versions and finishes, but haven't seen the final offering from BC yet; I've got a test roll coming.  IMHO, I don't think anything from an inkjet can touch the Kodak Endura Metallic, and in reality it's an unfair comparison based on the process.  But if BC's metallic paper offering can just get close, they will have a winner.  PM sent.

Ken
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nemophoto
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 11:05:26 AM »
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I actually have both the Breathing Color and RedRiver metalic papers on order to try out. I'll let you know my thoughts, at least in relation to other inkjet. It's been SO long since i saw the Kodak, I really couldn't give an honest comparison with that. I tried some metalic paper from i2i (from Lyson - had some samples froma show), and it wasn't bad. Very nice actually (including being on a cotton rag substrate, so nice feel). But under a lightbox, I honestly could say I could "see" the metalic sheen and increased depth.
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mstevensphoto
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 11:23:29 AM »
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interesting no one has mentioned Inkpress Metalic - I don't find it to be too horrible, I do find the company annoying to work with. My BC trial roll is in the mail.
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neile
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 11:28:49 PM »
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I actually have both the Breathing Color and RedRiver metalic papers on order to try out. I'll let you know my thoughts, at least in relation to other inkjet. It's been SO long since i saw the Kodak, I really couldn't give an honest comparison with that.

I did a side-by-side comparison when the first wave of metallic inkjet papers first hit the market. You can read my thoughts at: http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2010/06/16/metallic-inkjet-paper-review-three-contenders-to-replace-kodak-endura-metallic.html.

Neil
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Neil Enns
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 05:03:07 AM »
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Why is it we never hear of any attempts from Kodak to reproduce their Kodak Endura Metallic for inkjet. (Maybe it cannot be done.)
If they could pull this off it may not turn the company around but they would have a top seller for sure.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 08:12:30 AM »
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pretty hard to duplicate the look of Kodak metallic, just not the same to put ink on top vs. translucent dyes.  Part of the metallic look is the pure gloss, just can't get the same perfect gloss with inkjet.

I agree. A gloss optimizer would help though. Any kind of varnish or face mounting helps a ton.
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 11:06:59 AM »
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Breathing Color sent a trial size 17" roll of the Vibrance Metallic 255gsm paper and I've finally made some print samples. I used the Epson 4900 with BC's canned profile, and the Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper media selection in the Epson driver. The profile seems rather good.

I can't tell if this is the Mitsubishi paper or not, and my only prior experience with inkjet metallics is the Red River branded Polar Metallic. To my eye the papers are similar to one another, but I'll need additional time and printing test to talk about differences between the metallic's made by BC and RR.

In my view, I'd encourage anyone interested enough to read this to try at least one of these papers and see for yourself if you haven't yet, as I'm glad I did. While the pigment inks laid atop a reflectance layer can probably never reproduce the Kodak Endura result, I still feel it's of value for certain images. In my hands, the metallic inkjet papers shine when Dmax and gamut are a priority, and I'll say that subjectively each of these eclipses my usual paper when these parameters are a priority, Canson Baryta Photographique. But the property of greatest interest is the appearance of depth, and this is most expressed by high-key content. I suspect this is as simple as smaller doses of pigment being laid down in such image areas, and as a result, the opacity of the mask preventing light from making its way out from the reflective layer is reduced vs. densely inked areas.

I'll add that this 3rd dimension is most apparent if the high key areas have some decent high frequency detail. Some recent print work has, for example, tack-sharp water droplets streaming off a black wetsuit worn by by swimmers, and this paper really makes it quite a sight to behold.

Scott Martin mentions above possible value in either a gloss optimizer or a face mounting. Since some of my metallics have been informal gifts, I have used a glossy laminate to face the print after 1/2" Gator Foam mounting. The glossy laminate is something I'd never use for a serious print, but it does - at the minimum - not detract from the sparkle and pop that these metallic high-key high DR prints have.

So while my comments are purely anecdotal and are badly quantified, I'll just offer that the inkjet metallic process holds my interest from some subjects. Since I've given up resenting the papers for not giving us what Kodak Endura did, I'm enjoying what they do offer. In my book, purist or not, there is a look that I don't think we can achieve any other way right now.

John Caldwell
Pittsburgh, PA
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 11:53:30 AM by John Caldwell » Logged
irvweiner
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2012, 02:59:21 AM »
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I have tested the RR and BC papers earlier this year. Using the Canon Pro 9000 (dye inks) I note an enhanced pop or vibrance, especially in color prints. For my rare B&W's on the Canon, the deep blacks exhibit a disturbing 'flare' generated by the interior metallic layer. My Epson 3880, (pigment inks) not being transparent appear 'flatter'; more so for B&W prints than color. Both papers exhibit, to my eyes, identical surfaces, the base stock does not.

BC's Vibrance Luster yields excellent visual dynamics  on both printers, their recently re-released Crystalline canvas with glossy surface really pops. But ink pooling is creating a blotchy background, cutting back the ink loading by 15% (as advised) helps but flattens the tonal scale--I think product is on hold once again. I sure hope it gets 'fixed'-no sealing rqd, robust weight and can be hung like tapestry-no frames or wrap rqd!!

irv weiner
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2012, 05:35:19 AM »
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Ilford should have a metallic paper too and I think I did see a new one from Moab on the Photokina that comes next to the Slickrock. No samples of both so far. There are two semi-metallic samples of BonJet here that I have to measure.


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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
370+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
added Tetenal-Kodak, renewed Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico
soon Bonjet-Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Mitsubishi-Kodak(more)
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framah
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2012, 10:52:07 AM »
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Does anyone know anything about Pictorico paper?
Is it one of those metallic papers?

I have a possible customer wanting me to print on this stuff and I've never heard of it.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2012, 12:53:12 PM »
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Pictorico hi-gloss white is a beautiful paper and not metallic.
When I started face mounting to acrylic I wanted to use a paper that had no texture.
After running samples with our Epson gloss papers just about all of thm had one form of texture or another and not good for facemounting.
The metallics showed the most promise but images with quite alot of white were just not right.
I ordered a pack of the Pictorico white film and it is lovely.
Smooth,no texture and a very bright white.
To date I have not found a better paper for face mounting.
If you have seen dye sublimation on hi gloss white metal it has a similar look. (Not as good but still nice.)

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framah
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2012, 04:31:44 PM »
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Thanks, Dan. Wink
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Atlex.com
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2012, 01:56:21 PM »
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We have our personal brand of metallic papers called Simply Elegant.  You can get a sample of all 5 versions (3 sheets of each).  The product number is PSMSAM that you can see on our site for more information.  The Pure Gold and Pure Silver require a solvent spray applied after printing due to the coating.

Let us know if you have questions regarding these papers.  We also sell metallic canvas from IJ technologies that is a big hit.

sales@atlex.com
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hugowolf
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2012, 08:35:31 PM »
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Does anyone know anything about Pictorico paper?
Is it one of those metallic papers?

I have a possible customer wanting me to print on this stuff and I've never heard of it.
Although it sounds very Italianate, Pictorico is a brand name used by Mitsubishi.

Brian A
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