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Author Topic: i1Pro2 "Raven" review  (Read 19537 times)
Scott Martin
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« on: April 11, 2012, 08:24:33 AM »
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FWIW, I just posted my i1Pro2 review at http://www.on-sight.com/?p=2522

It's short and to the point highlighting the important differences that I think people will want to know about. It includes, amoung others, a screen grab of the Measure Modes and Conditions dialog that's so unique to this device. It also briefly mentions the new "Measure Chart" and "Measure Reference Chart" functionality. It's a quick read - hope it's useful.

I've also released an article on how the new i1Profiler v1.3 can be used to take grayscale measurements with any i1 device (i1Pro1, i1Pro2, iSis, iO table) for use with QTR grayscale profiling. http://www.on-sight.com/?p=2520

Scott Martin
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« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 09:13:17 AM by Onsight » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 08:38:42 AM »
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It also briefly mentions the new "Measure Chart" and "Measure Reference Chart" functionality. I

You play with the Measure Chart? Buggy on this end, very buggy.
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Andrew Rodney
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2012, 08:48:46 AM »
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You play with the Measure Chart? Buggy on this end, very buggy.

Yes, I have a separate article out on using "Measure Reference Chart" for grayscale measurement for QTR grayscale profiling. http://www.on-sight.com/?p=2520  Took me a while to figure out how to get the data sets into i1Profiler but with the saved workflows that I put on my website I think it will make it much easier for others to use.

That's been pretty solid for me. "Measure Chart" has useful for quick spot measurements and to measure the occasional target that I can't have reprinted. Generally speaking I think it's important that we all embrace new i1Profiler targets and not continue using old targets. nonetheless, these "Measure Chart" and "Measure Reference Chart" will be useful once in a blue moon and provides additional functionality for weird processes like grayscale profiling.
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VitOne
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2012, 09:00:05 AM »
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Thanks for the review, interesting.

I would like to know your impressions about the quality of the readings. Did you notice an improvement over the older  i1Pro REVD?

I think I am going to update to this new instrument but some other users that have tested the new i1Pro 2 told me that they could not notice any improvement over the scan quality. Of course you have some interesting features such as the “multiple illuminant” that allow you to use the “OBA  feature” in i1Profiler software, but I’d also like to know what do you think about quality of the lectures (maybe also comparing the new instrument to a Spectrolino or an i1isis.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2012, 09:05:51 AM »
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The DeltaE variations are lower than with the previous device and in line with the latest iSis device. Long story short - it's better and on par with XRite's more expensive devices. I don't have the numbers handy to me right now but perhaps Andrew will chime in with some.
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VitOne
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2012, 09:14:40 AM »
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Thanks for the fast answer. I saw Andrew's review a few minutes ago, I'd like to say thank him too.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2012, 09:16:30 AM »
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As I mentioned, it correlates better with my iSis Rev E, the Rev E is different (newer) than previous iSis units. So in that respect, I’m happy. Without a higher end reference Spectrophotometer (who’s qualities are similar in terms of the M series and so forth), and a larger sample of units to compare, we are just guessing here. I really don’t think we need to spend much time discussing how many deltaE values can dance on the head of this pin.

It would be useful to trend how the device measures the same data over time!

The thing to consider is that multiple devices using differing technologies in no why guarantee the measurements are ‘right’. Take the iSis. I have both a Rev C and Rev E. Both produce excellent quality profiles. X-Rite changed the insides of the unit for the Rev E, presumably to improve it and better deal with the new XRGA ‘standards’ which is a good thing. It behaves differently than the Rev C. The max delta’s are about 1 and change or so, nothing earth shattering. Point is, which is ‘better’? Which do we use to say ‘this is the correct, standard measurement’? For those of us that track things like press variation over time, using the same instrument, when something new comes along (say our Rev C needs service or we need to add another iSis), this can cause some issues in the trending of the data. For other users, it isn’t a factor.

What X-Rite is trying to do, and I commend them for it, is making a process that draws a line in the sand in terms of how these various devices behave and thus correlate. A lot of users don’t recognize that a Spectrophotometer made from company A and one from company B don’t have to behave the same (hence the idea around XRGA and some of the M series standards).
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Andrew Rodney
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VitOne
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2012, 10:16:07 AM »
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I really don’t think we need to spend much time discussing how many deltaE values can dance on the head of this pin.

It would be useful to trend how the device measures the same data over time!

The thing to consider is that multiple devices using differing technologies in no why guarantee the measurements are ‘right’. Take the iSis. I have both a Rev C and Rev E. Both produce excellent quality profiles. X-Rite changed the insides of the unit for the Rev E, presumably to improve it and better deal with the new XRGA ‘standards’ which is a good thing. It behaves differently than the Rev C. The max delta’s are about 1 and change or so, nothing earth shattering. Point is, which is ‘better’? Which do we use to say ‘this is the correct, standard measurement’? For those of us that track things like press variation over time, using the same instrument, when something new comes along (say our Rev C needs service or we need to add another iSis), this can cause some issues in the trending of the data. For other users, it isn’t a factor.

What X-Rite is trying to do, and I commend them for it, is making a process that draws a line in the sand in terms of how these various devices behave and thus correlate. A lot of users don’t recognize that a Spectrophotometer made from company A and one from company B don’t have to behave the same (hence the idea around XRGA and some of the M series standards).

Thanks! I was asking just for impression for this reasons.

I have never been really happy with the i1Pro “dark area” behavior, and I hope to try this new device soon. I noticed that they have implemented a few new features (relating temperature and time) that could improve also the quality of emissive measurements.

I have notice that almost all the instrument that I use require some adjusting over time, and that, in general, behavior of both the printer and the measuring device is influenced by many parameters (humidity, temperature). Over time I noticed that everything is moving in the right way for “ better colors” and, generally speaking, I am happy with a better device, but I am not a “DeltaE warrior”.

Just to don’t go too off topic: do you have any idea of upgrade cost for owner of previous software and hardware? I notice that (in USA) the update cost should be around 800 dollars (I am moving from an i1Publish PRO to an i1Publish PRO 2).
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rasworth
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2012, 10:33:41 AM »
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Will the new i1Profiler version accomodate OBC correction with old i1Pros, i.e. if one does dual scans with both non-uvcut and uvcut instruments, can the new sw utilize?

Richard Southworth
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digitaldog
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2012, 11:14:54 AM »
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The upgrade info I can find thus far seems to be here:

https://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?id=1951

Using two different instruments (i1Pro’s) to utilize OBC module? I don’t know if that is possible, I don’t know how you’d load the two separate sets of data and if the software would barf on it if you could. I doubt it will fly.
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Andrew Rodney
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 11:48:33 AM »
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The upgrade info I can find thus far seems to be here:

https://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?id=1951

I commented on this back on the 'About this Site' page and they do not offer an upgrade path if you just want new hardware.  You have to buy the software bundle.  I've been using ArgyllCMS to do profiles as I can correct for OBAs in a meaningful way.  If I want to upgrade here, I need to spend a lot more money than just buying a new piece of hardware.  I guess X-Rite want to lock you into their software solution (which is of course their right).
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2012, 11:50:01 AM »
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Quote
Just to don’t go too off topic: do you have any idea of upgrade cost for owner of previous software and hardware?

If you're looking to upgrade to Publish2 from Publish1 it's $599 for the software only and $1499 with the new device. You can contact your dealer for the full pricelist, which is fairly complex. Street pricing could be lower than the retail numbers above.

Will the new i1Profiler version accomodate OBC correction with old i1Pros, i.e. if one does dual scans with both non-uvcut and uvcut instruments, can the new sw utilize?

Nope, sorry. The nature of the dual illuminant measurement data is actually quite different then what you would get from an i1Pro and i1ProUVCut. OBC is and will only supported with the iSis and i1Pro2.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2012, 11:52:55 AM »
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I commented on this back on the 'About this Site' page and they do not offer an upgrade path if you just want new hardware.

That's not correct. I have the official pricelist given to dealers that contains the various options. There are hardware upgrades that are lower than buying the hardware outright. Naturally, all solutions come with a CD with the software. Heck you can download the software for free from XRite.

I should add that I'm not a dealer and don't sell any products whatsoever. I think sales is direct conflict to excellent consulting services and training. I want to my clients to know that when I recommend something it's because I truly think it's best for them separate from any financial gain on my behalf.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 11:57:17 AM by Onsight » Logged

rasworth
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2012, 12:58:02 PM »
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The question for those of us who already own an i1Profiler license/dongle, along with the instruments, is will Xrite sell us an unbundled instrument.  In the past one had to buy some sort of kit with the instrument and at least base software.

Richard Southworth
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2012, 01:40:55 PM »
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The question for those of us who already own an i1Profiler license/dongle, along with the instruments, is will Xrite sell us an unbundled instrument.  In the past one had to buy some sort of kit with the instrument and at least base software.

Yes, there is - it's US$1199 MSRP if you've purchased since April 2011. If purchased before April 2011 then the regular upgrade bundles apply.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 02:01:09 PM by Onsight » Logged

Scott Martin
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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2012, 01:44:23 PM »
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FYI, i1Profiler version 1.3.1 has just been released on their website and via the in-app update process.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2012, 04:17:05 PM »
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Yes, there is - it's US$1199 MSRP if you've purchased since April 2011. If purchased before April 2011 then the regular upgrade bundles apply.
I thought that this is just the retail price of the "Raven" without the profile making software and it's certainly $300 more than I paid for my i1 Pro last summer.  I don't think this qualifies as an upgrade and the only ones I saw were the spectro/software bundles.

Alan
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2012, 05:04:01 PM »
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There are hardware upgrades that are lower than buying the hardware outright. Naturally, all solutions come with a CD with the software. Heck you can download the software for free from XRite.
From what I can see on X-Rite's site; You don't 'just' buy the hardware, you have to buy the lowest inclusive package to get your hands on the hardware. If you already own an i1 Pro and i1Profiler Publish (and possibly have licence fo PMP too) the only 'upgrade' path is to buy the standard i1Pro 2 Basic package for monitors and projectors which includes the requisite new licence for i1profiler too, but wouldn't include printer profiling.

I'll wait to see what the implications of that are, considering the complications of the USB dongle. I've got a dongle via PMP5 > i1profiler. Will i1profiler 1.3 use all the facilities of the new spectro via the existing dongle ? or will the spectro or dongle need upgrading ?
As ever with X-Rite it's all very complicated, inter-related and confusing.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2012, 06:12:25 PM »
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Will i1profiler 1.3 use all the facilities of the new spectro via the existing dongle ? or will the spectro or dongle need upgrading ?

The USB dongle will do the job (or you’ll end up with two dongles, one being the i1pro 2). For example, my i1Pro 2 is licensed for Publish but so is my HASP dongle. I can use either.

FWIW, got the final production package today. The new hardware is really nice. I’ve been working with pre-production hardware. The final quality is great and a big step up from the older hardware. The case that holds all the other pieces is also really slick. These guys can do hardware. Now if we could get the software in that kind of shape!
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 09:20:42 PM »
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I thought that this is just the retail price of the "Raven" without the profile making software and it's certainly $300 more than I paid for my i1 Pro last summer.  I don't think this qualifies as an upgrade and the only ones I saw were the spectro/software bundles.
IMHO it's not realistic to expect upgrade pricing for the new spectro hardware. Since when do you get cheap upgrades for hardware? 

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