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Author Topic: Future autofocus with EOS Cinema C300?  (Read 1574 times)
billy
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« on: April 11, 2012, 04:12:38 PM »
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With all the new camera announcements I have been debating which camera is right for me; the FS100 + 700 because of useable autofocus, OR the Canon C300 because of the increased dynamic range and filmic look of file. I do not want the headaches of a Red scarlet although the dynamic range looks great.

Between the 2 factors that I care about most ( dynamic range and autofocus ) I am leaning towards the FS100 ( unless the 700 reveals better DR or AF ). I would prefer the C300 because of all the canon glass I own.

Does anyone know if the C300's body would allow AF in a firmware upgrade? Is it possible or conceivable? Seems like Canon should be able to offer AF at some point.

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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 07:02:45 PM »
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I think the limitation is considered to be the (lglass) lens motors - dont know why - my nikkors seem to AF ok (for stills)

Im pretty sure it wont come on the C300

As for the FS100 AF its kind of gold, but also the manual feel of the AF (kit) lens is horrid

Also putting a lot of money into sony glass is .. well is it a good idea

I have 3 nikkors and the sony kit lens on my Fs100

Personally I think the C300 is overpriced as it seems like there a more bigger batter faster cameras every day

You wont lose too much with an FS100

http://www.canonrumors.com/

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
bcooter
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2012, 10:21:07 PM »
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I don't know if anyone else is getting confused but I am.

Canon I guess has a plan to make the 5d3 and the dslrs to hit the lower priced 2k scale, the new 4k to be top of the line and I guess the c300 is somewhere in between.

I still don't understand the form factors and features.  I can understand 4k raw, I don't understand a company like Canon that makes about a billion autofocus cameras that can't add that to the list, or why the 4k camera is a dslr form factor instead of the c300 form factor?

I'm sure being Canon they'll sell a bunch of all of them, mostly because so many people have legacy Canon glass, but I kind of wonder what the workflow is going to be like if you own a c300, a 5d3 and maybe this 4k raw.  That's as much mixing and matching I do between my RED's and my Sony.  In a way maybe more.

I think RED started a firestorm with the Scarlet.  The Scarlet has it's issues and some things are a work in progress, but at 14k for 4k raw and optional mounts, it kind of makes me wonder why someone would spend $25,000 on a 4k dslr when the Scarlet comes in at half the price, but maybe there is something I don't know.

The Sony (on paper) seems better sorted out, but they still have lenses and I guess some kind of processing suite that they have to come out with.

On another note, I was at a large still and motion equipment rental house last Friday before boarding the plane and the manager told me they're renting cotinuous lights hand over fist, though studio strobes are setting on the shelf.

I don't know if that means anything, but it is something to think about as to where the industry is going.

What I'm mostly surprised in is why there is not a motion imaging version of lightroom that would take files from all of these new and newer cameras.  I'd think that would be a hands down winner, but maybe not.

I am also surprised that no company, apple or adobe, or matrox, or Kona or someone hasn't addressed a simple quicktime fix where what you see in the processing suite and editorial suite don't exactly match what a stand along h264, prorezz, or even mpg stand alone file.

But, we're in the early stages of this convergence and it's the wild wild west.

I kind of think what I would do if I was starting from scratch and every announced camera, lens, software, etc. was on the shelf and ready to roll.

I think I might still own a RED One because it's robust, but for the other work I think (not knowing how these new cameras work in the real world)., I think I'd go the Sony fs700 route.

I do know if I was designing a camera interface I'd either go as simple as a 5d2 or as mechanical as a RED One, especially with xlr inputs, thought they are smaller xlr inputs.*

IMO

BC

*We have this series of plastic baggies that go in a small case that is nothing but sound attachements.  XLR to mini xlr, XLR to mini plugs, mini plugs to XLR,s BNC's and well probably 4 or 5 more I can't remember right now.

That is something I'd love to see standardized.


P.S. I know moving a lot of equipment is a pain and once you get past lights, stands, supports, cameras, lenses, chargers, then I've got those 1/2 dozen baggies full of sound convertors.  Now I mentioned before if we've gotta shoot something with new equipment, we should at least have some fun.  Looking at that bag of sound convertors really is a buzz kill and basically zero fun as one xlr to mini xlr cable that is bent or left behind is a problem and not something your going to find at the nearst best buy.




 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 10:35:28 PM by bcooter » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 01:30:31 AM »
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I think you a seeing the world in a too simple manner
It would just be too simple for speccing a camera. in K (resolution),FPS max clean ISO- what more do you need to know for a raw shooter?
Red are pretty open like that

I think people like canon are listening to customers - too much
All the Cine people say we dont need AF (I had the same attitude to stills in 1992 - AF is for Losers)
Another bunch say we want a DSLR without a crappy codec
So thats what they bring

All I want is a nikon D3 (or actually even a nikon D70) with 120FPS and a solid output to a recorder (that has XLR onboard) - its the same thing - its all of them - its even a stills camera

I think that is what Red is trying to do - where Canikon (should) win is IMO stability, service, and they should win on price point - I guess the $25k one is aimed at the Alexa

Wires.

I have a simple approach with voltage - does it run off V-Lock ? No - does it run off a battery you can buy in a Garage (petrol shop) or corner store
No? Big Problem - get something else
Really XLR, BNC and DTap should be the only wires you need... should
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 01:35:49 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
fredjeang
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 07:31:40 AM »
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I think, to use a Coot's expression, that it is indeed the wild west. And this is not new to be honest.

The lack of standardization has been evident since a long time, at least in our world.

The problem with motion, and I think we should recognize it, is us with our ridiculous budgets. Standarts exists within the high-end, included color codes for cablery etc...

We're talking about those AF issues, but this mostly concerns us (see further why a.t.m)

We own our cameras but within the Cine industry it's mostly rental and the prods can decide if it will be done with Panavision system or Reds or Alexas. We're just some peices of sand within the motion beach.

As an example: have you ever watch a Formula 1 Gran Prix, or in the states an Indy car gran prix?
The other day I was watching a Gran Prix: they don't have AF issues, they don't have motion artefacts. IQ is just stunning, it works in all aspects even with bolids runnin those speeds.
Outer conditions changes? light changes? image stays constant, exposure? perfect. Tracking focus while pan+zooming a car at 200 miles per hour? perfect.
So, of course, how cost one of those cameras? How good are the operators ? Probably more expensive than what we might ever touch in all our carreer.

Yes it costs a huge amount of money and super skilled pros to broadcast that, but maybe we should admit on the other hand that we are in a league way behind those guys with our dslrs or Canon C300 toys and Canon lenses. We are doing D.I.Y and it works in the best case the hard way, while others are working with the proper tools and budgets. We are still amateurs in many aspects.
Those guys have the tech and mediums we would like to have for 2000 bucks and one Pelican case...this isn't serious from us.
Desirable? yes; serious? I'm not sure.

Instead of chassing reliable affordable AF lenses that never come, will end to come but we-don't-know-when, simply happily work with reliable manual lenses, and there are, but not necesarly our still lenses and certainly not our still AF glasses. Manual movie lenses that are-were made for manual focussing and that in operation are fast and precise even without follow-focus and designed for motion.
IMHO.






 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 08:00:05 AM by fredjeang » Logged
dreed
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 10:28:44 AM »
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So today Canon announced the EOS-1D C and that it will also deliver a C500.

Both of these, along with the C300, are considered by Canon to be professional video products as distinct from cameras such as the 1DX/5D3 that are classed as consumer goods.
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billy
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 01:42:20 PM »
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2 new cameras from Canon and still no autofocus..... yawn. I guess my decision has been made for me, will probably buy the Sony.

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bcooter
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2012, 04:00:18 PM »
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2 new cameras from Canon and still no autofocus..... yawn. I guess my decision has been made for me, will probably buy the Sony.



Obviously Canon is thinking about the Epic, not the Scarlet or Red One.

It will probably be a great camera, but a film type camera that requires PL lenses and a dedicatted focus puller.

Personally, if my life was about shooting for Cinema, I'd look at Red One's with an MX sensor   Both of mine have been solid and though they are somewhat heavy depending on lens, they work and work.

This week I've probably shot 50% Red One, 45% Sony fs100 and 5% Scarlet.

The Scarlet kinda scares me, the R-1 I know so well I find it easy to use and an industry standard.

Red is not the most forthcoming on all plans and a little slow to deliver, but a lot of nice production has been shot on RED.

IMO

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Tim Jones
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 05:13:46 PM »
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Whenever i want to look at some nice footage i look at this : http://youtu.be/UqjOH-nmKIY
Red One all the way . Check out the Irish hipsters too, I love it!
Thanks,
Tim
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