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Author Topic: Workflow with 5D mk3 and FCPX  (Read 4825 times)
billy
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« on: April 18, 2012, 11:50:06 AM »
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hello, I am very new to video and I am interested in how people are working with the above. I am using version 10, not the updated version. A few questions:

- are you importing straight from card into FCPX or are you trans-coding it somehow and then importing into FCPX?

-is there a grey drop tool somewhere? So I can click on a grey card in the scene for color correction? Is there a plug in if needed?

-kinda of a follow up to the above question, are there any 3rd party plug ins that offer color grading solutions like C1 Pro for stills? I like color and tonal adjustments as 'sliders' as opposed to what FCPX uses.

Not sure if this helps but I am making a high and low res file of each clip I create. I store these like stills. I do not 'cut' clips together and create movies/stories.
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mmurph
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 12:56:58 PM »
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Sorry, can't help with FCP.

If you want to look at Adobe Premiere Pro CS 6.0, I just posted a video on new features in my post in this forum.

You can download a 30 day trial of CS 5.5 Premiere Pro, or the whole Production Premium. 

There is also Adobe Premiere Elements 10.0 along with Photoshop Elements 10.0 available for around $100. I have not used either of those versions. I also don't know if/when they are going to be updated with CS 6.0 features.

Lightroom 4.0 also supports basic video editing functions if you are already familiar with Lightroom. There is a video online that goes through editing in 4.0. Lightroom is also available for a free 30 day download, or available for $100 to $150 ($100 if you buy a camera or lens at B&H, etc.)

Good luck!  Free bump at least!   Grin

Michael
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billy
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 12:19:52 PM »
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well thanks for the tip on Lightroom 4, I tried it and think this might be my new software for color grading. I couldnt figure out a way to export as a mov file, only mp4, am I missing something?
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mmurph
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 10:05:40 AM »
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High Billy,

(OK, didn't mean to imply anything! Dang autocorrect on my phone, Hi->High!)  Tongue

Glad this is working for you a bit.

Lightroom video support is just starting, so it is pretty basic. But the non-destructive workflow like photos is great. And it is much easier to use than other editors if you are familiar with Lightroom. I hope we get a lot more functionality in Release 4.1, 4.2, etc.)

Going by memory, there are only 3 output options. If you are shooting a Canon still camera, if you select "Origional", it will output a .mov file at the same resolution as the original.

If you select H.264, you have a choice of sizes. It will output a MPEG-4.  And the DivX option basically outputs a series of still frames.

You can download a free 30 day trial of Adobe Media Encoder. That will give you 100's of options for input and output formats, sizes, and destinations - blu ray, web, DVD, etc. I don't know how much it costs as a standalone.

If you have FCP, you could do grading, etc in Lightroom, Export, hen convert in FCP.

Finally, you could look at other tools, like Quicktime Pro, which is $29 but no trial package, so be sure it does what you need. Or Compressor, or Magic Bullet - I don't remember all the tools they have.

Best bet is to use Media Encoder for 30-60 days (if you have a second computer) and see what you actually need. And what shakes out of NAB and the Adobe 6.0 release, etc.

Good luck! I didn't know the Motion forum was here until 1-2 weeks ago. Don't always check it. (Just tagged this thread so I get replies emailed to me. I also have the threads I started tagged for replies.)

Best,
Michael

« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 10:10:03 AM by mmurph » Logged
billy
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 06:52:15 PM »
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I figured it out; the trial version does not let you export a .mov file. only mp4
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mmurph
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 09:28:10 PM »
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If you buy LR 4.0, there are a number of ways to get it for $99.

Either by buying it with a camera or some lenses at B&H, or with other software suites at Adobe.

You might find someone doing one of those two things to but it for you. I already bought my other Adobe software, after I paid full price for LR 4.0

Michael
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billy
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 02:43:11 PM »
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"Going by memory, there are only 3 output options. If you are shooting a Canon still camera, if you select "Origional", it will output a .mov file at the same resolution as the original.

If you select H.264, you have a choice of sizes. It will output a MPEG-4.  And the DivX option basically outputs a series of still frames. "



update; you cannot export a .mov file and keep the color settings applied. you can only make mp4's. i canceled my order : (
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mmurph
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 02:54:05 PM »
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update; you cannot export a .mov file and keep the color settings applied. you can only make mp4's. i canceled my order : (

I thought that was true, but now I don't think it is.

That was my understanding based on a comment on a thread on Adode TV in a reply to a video of Lightroom 4.0.

But I did a very flat, Neutral, low saturation, open grade from a .mov shot at 1600 that had blown reds, very high saturation, contrast, saturated blue-yellow background, and bad tungsten auto color balance (a concert.)

The output file had noise reduction, was very neutral, flat, and open. Really a nice output.

That said, I am only using Lightroom 4.0 a bit.  I am actually using Adobe CS 5.5, Bridge, Adobe Camera Raw, Photoshop Extended, Premiere Pro, Adobe Media Encoder, etc. Two totally different tool sets. So don't take my word as gospel.

I'd suggest the Adobe Forums for clarification? I am just using Lightroom on the side to keep up on the workflow and methodology, which has some real positives and long term potential.

Good luck!

Michael
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billy
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 03:10:51 PM »
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i was on the phone w/ technical support for an hour, they said it was not possible. Bummer.

if i make an mp4 with max quality is that degrading the file at all?
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mmurph
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 05:50:39 PM »
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OK, then I am mistaken. Must be the MPEG-4 that looked great.

The output that I used on the MPEG was 120k, while the .mov I tested with was 3.8GB.

Let me go test and see what the best MPEG quality looks like.

Fred also posted here about the Lightworks tool. Might be some opportunity there, but they have not performed too well at all against their target timelines. May be too little too late? But maybe they will get Adive to be more serious with a .1 or .2 release of Lightroom soon if they want to grab market share?

According to Schewe and others, the render tools between Lightroom and Photoshop are the same, just different interfaces. They certainly have high quality tools in Premiere, After Effects, and Encoder.

Back soon!
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mmurph
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 06:26:02 PM »
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OK. Looks like I only output 41 seconds of the 12 minute clip in MPEG-4, so that explains the relative sizes.  The HD segment that I output looks great, considering the crappy video I started with.

The Input default is "as shot", HD, 1920x1098, 24 FPS, 22 MBps.  The output defaults to exactly the same HD quality as the input

For Output there are 4 options, Low, Med, High, and Max. From 1MBps, 480x720, to 8MBps at 1280x720, to High or Max, both at HD with 22MBps, the first says it might use a variable bit rate.

"Export" opens a pop-up window. I see no reason why it couldn't open a full-blown version, or at least a good sub-set, of Adobe Media Encoder features/options. That is a great tool that supports just about every codec, at any given size, bit rate, or destination.

I'll see if I can find any discussion or commitment on the Adobe web site. Maybe a Beta 4.1 soon? They are usually pretty good at getting teh free Beta's out there!

If they want this market - and they could have a great tool - they better fight for it now! They certainly have the team to do it. Maybe too distracted by CS 6.0 right now?

Let me know if I didn't answer anything from your PM. I'll go have a look there, and send you my e-mail address.

Best,
Michael
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mmurph
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 10:39:59 PM »
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I haven't tried out the Adobe Photoshop CS 6.0 Beta yet.

Apparently that also has some decent video editing capability?  Free Beta available, though that may expire soon. After that there will be the usual 30 day free trial, starting May 6th I believe?

Lots of new stuff to learn & play with - looks more robust though:

http://bourkemedia.com/?page_id=42

So Photoshop CS5 and 5.5 had some video editing features; I never used them, since I mostly work in Premiere Pro and After Effects. Video in PS was an afterthought to me. So now along comes CS6, and both the  Extended and Standard editions will have video editing capabilities, the best part of which just might be Photoshop’s filter set. Yes…there are a few transitions available, and adjustment layers, and keyframing, and multiple tracks (with the magnetic timeline – you listening, Apple?), standard video editing toolset – hey! This is sounding pretty good – especially to photographers who are now using their DSLRs as the powerful video tools they’ve become.
 
When you save an edited video in PS CS6, it saves a PSD file, but it’s easy to export videos in several of the standard pixel aspect ratios and codecs.
 
But that’s not all. They’ve rewritten the Camera Raw process, simplified the User Interface, sped up performance, added a Content Aware Move that’s nothing short of black magic, made the paint brushes even closer to real paint media, added more content-aware capabilities, and the list goes on. For a look at some of the features I’m talking about, go right to the source:
 
      http://blogs.adobe.com/creativelayer/2012/03/16/photoshop-sneak-peeks/
 
Better yet, if you want to test drive the Beta yourself, go to:
 
      http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/photoshopcs6.html



Video in CS6 Photoshop - 7 minute overview. Pretty straigtforward use of layers for video, with quite a few options:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs-DgJC3nEE
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 11:00:19 PM by mmurph » Logged
billy
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2012, 10:53:13 AM »
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Revisiting this old thread; I have been using Lightroom 4 with video and everything works really well for color grading but for exporting it is limited. mmurph suggested using Adobe Media encoder as a plug-in but after several calls to adobe support I could not get to the bottom of if they work well together. The Adobe Forums did not help either. Any help here?

Also, I am still using FCPX for other projects shot with the 5D MK3, to make the footage look better do I need to convert the footage into Pro Res first before importing the footage into FCPX? In FCP7 you had to do that so I ran it thru Mpeg Streamclip first.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 01:55:21 PM »
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Sorry to irrupt into the thread but I'd like to ad a few things here.

You talk about the non-destructive workflow like in stills. But the NLEs aren't destructive either. I don't see the bonus of LR or PS in this sense.

About lightworks, I'm currently learning it doing really complex editings full of chalenges so that I stress the software to the max. I plan to report here but only once I got the pro version that will be released in some days and had a few more hours with it.

But a few days working on it so far, I can tell you right now that this is a masterpeice of the editing. I'm not kidding. This is actually the editor I was looking for.

Currently, what I'm doing with it is a musical clip. It has been shooted on different cameras that aren't sync, and several takes of the same track played live by jazz musician at different moments so the tempo is never the same (jazz musician never play twice the same track). None of the cameras were color balanced the same. The footage is a mix of fps and there is no timecode. The audio mix send by the sound engineer does not correspond to any of the footage choosen. The song is an ultra speed gypsy jazz track. On the same footage, there are part of the scene that is extremely lightened and other part that is underexposed. In short, a supreme mess. With all that crap, I have to do an edit of one song using all the unsync takes, uncolor-balanced etc...every fingers have to be sync with the music and no cut has to be longuer than 3 secs and the editing has to match the bass rythm. Of course, the footage has to be graded.
I actually did this edit as training before on both Avid and Edius, now trying it in lightworks so I know exactly where the differences are. It wins hands-up.

This is the most versatile, creative and serious editing tool I had in hands so far. It really helps the story-telling and makes what could be a hell very bearable. You edit without the sensation that you are working.

They use it currently in the high-end cinema, I understand why after those first days playing with it. I don't think I'll touch an Avid or a Premiere again. I really can't picture myself any more on those NLEs after awhile with lightworks.
 
It's that good.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 02:03:58 PM by fredjeang » Logged
billy
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2012, 02:21:55 PM »
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"You talk about the non-destructive workflow like in stills. But the NLEs aren't destructive either. I don't see the bonus of LR or PS in this sense. "

thanks fred but I dont really care about editing, audio, storytelling, I am only color grading and trimming and then exporting. Just like a stills workflow. I use LR because it is intuitive to a stills photographer. I loathe those color wheels you see everywhere in video NLE's, I much prefer sliders ( left for green and right for magenta, etc ). I also like greydrop tools to balance from a grey card. What type of color grading tools does Lightworks use?

does anyone have an answer to my question above regarding pro res conversion?
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fredjeang
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2012, 02:24:27 PM »
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What type of color grading tools does Lightworks use?



It's a mixed bag between the still tools and the video tools. Both are present. It reminds me very much the Nuke's ones.
So yes, you got plenty of sliders and not just color wheels.

Cheers.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2012, 02:30:47 PM »
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here is a screen-shot of some sliders

Ps: according to your needs, in the above post, I don't think Lightworks would be for you in the sense that it's really about story-telling and editing efficiency. It has a learning curve and very different to a photographer post tool. This is really cinema. It wouldn't suit either broadcast TV. I think that for what you want to do, Photoshop would probably be the best bet.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 02:37:38 PM by fredjeang » Logged
billy
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« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2012, 02:48:28 PM »
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again, thanks. So are you saying to open up the file in Photoshop CS6 and you can actually trim, color correct, and export 5Dmk3 clips? Thats great if so. Should I convert to Pro Res first? I keep bringing this up, is that old tech that is necessary anymore?
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fredjeang
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« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2012, 02:58:07 PM »
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again, thanks. So are you saying to open up the file in Photoshop CS6 and you can actually trim, color correct, and export 5Dmk3 clips? Thats great if so. Should I convert to Pro Res first? I keep bringing this up, is that old tech that is necessary anymore?

an idea here: http://www.richardharringtonblog.com/files/d90a8eacb3fdc9b332a916df27acfd28-1764.php

I use currently Bridge to rename and add metadatas to my video files.

Best luck with the PS route.
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