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Author Topic: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO  (Read 17693 times)
BJL
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« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2012, 09:58:38 AM »
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... I think many of us like or would have liked ...
Let me complete that sentence for you:
... a medium format back with a modern CMOS sensor.

And of course, the likelihood and barriers to that are discussed repeatedly, most recently in this thread:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=65967.0
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2012, 09:59:09 AM »
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So no more R version with revolving sensor and articulating screen?  And no support for the Hy6 planned?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2012, 10:21:15 AM »
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I have no wish to criticize Doug who does an excellent job and is appreciated by all here, but I wonder whether he might not communicate our user requests to the manufacturers. And I think many of us like or would have liked:

- A major body revision rather than multiple back revisions Phase/Leaf.
- A sensor with Liveview that really really works. This would also make using an Alpa or similar easy.
- Contrast detect AF maybe, off the big sensor, in Liveview. The Sinar guys hinted this was a possibility, back when the Leaf/Sinar body came out.
- Hi ISO abilities, because every stop in ISO means less lights, less money for lights, less hassle for transportation.

All those requests have been heard. Don't mistake an announcement of one product with a statement that no other products are in development.

- Slightly more reasonable pricing. I think you can buy a used 5D2 over here for 2 days rental of a Phase back.

I don't anticipate the price of a Used 5D2 or new 5D3 will dictate medium format pricing any more than the price of a used 5D or new 5D2 or the dozen "latest and greatest" dSLRs that have come and gone since medium format began. Especially given that sales are up every year since the financial crises.

You can also buy a used Alienbee for the price of two days rental of a good strobe kit. But I don't think that will affect pricing of the Profoto Pro-8 much.

A lot of our customers actually lease (they own at the end, but pay per month for their lease period). Typically in the range of $200-$800/month depending on the kit and length of lease you can see where many photographers end up leasing rather than consistently renting a digital back. Some even set up a dedicated "separate" company so they can rent it to themselves when particular clients say they'll reimburse rentals but not pay for equipment a photographer owns. This is especially true outside of major markets where the pricing/availability of rental is much less competitive.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2012, 10:27:33 AM »
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So no more R version with revolving sensor and articulating screen?  And no support for the Hy6 planned?

No revolving sensor, no articulating screen, no support for Hy6 in the Credo.

It's one of those pesky things about the future that you can't say anything is impossible "in the future" but I would NOT hold your breath.

That said the AFI-10, AFI-12, Aptus II 10R, and Aptus II 12R with those features are still available. And for those looking for a good value, I'd put your name in with a dealer ASAP because I'd expect a lot of Leaf trade-ins as users upgrade to the Credo. Granted these particular backs were not sold in the same volume as the more common Aptus II 12 (non R) or other Aptus II backs, but if ever there was a time to pick one up - now is it. The last hurrah (in my opinion) for the AFi platform.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2012, 10:39:37 AM »
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Leaf-Aptus II 5 = 22% off an upgrade to a Credo (40/60/80)
Leaf-Aptus II 6 = 28% off an upgrade to a Credo (40/60/80)
Leaf-Aptus II 7 = 33% off an upgrade to a Credo (40/60/80)
Leaf-Aptus II 8 = 40% off an upgrade to a Credo (60/80)
Leaf-Aptus II 10 = 56% off an upgrade to a Credo  (60/80)

List price upgrade for Aptus II 8 to Credo 80 would be 40% off.   So instead of $38,995 it would be $23,397.
List price upgrade for Aptus II 10 to Credo 80 would be 56% off. So instead of $38,995 it would be $17,158.


Hm... So if you trade a very new back (Aptus ll 12) with the same sensor, that most likely makes the same IQ
we might have to pay 10.000$ or even more. Not really that tempting anymore...in the end the pictures will look the same.

Henrik
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 10:48:18 AM by henrikfoto » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2012, 10:49:46 AM »
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... you can't say anything is impossible "in the future" but I would NOT hold your breath. ... The last hurrah (in my opinion) for the AFi platform.
Doug,
    On this and your answer about the Pentax 645D, I am sure that you are just giving us the uncomfortable truths that some people do not want to acknowledge yet. Briefly: to the extent that there will be ongoing development of DMF products for professional photography, it will be based around the Hasselblad and Phase One/Mamiya/Leaf 645 format systems, with any other new DMF products being gradually declining support for "legacy" products that do not require much additional R&D, and for certain amateur niches. Not that some professionals and high level amateurs cannot continue to work with other systems (just as some professionals can successfully use DSLR systems other than Canon or Nikon!)
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2012, 11:05:44 AM »
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To some extent.

Though for the Contax and V bodies, I suspect we'll see near-parity levels of support for many mamy years to come. The reason being the interface (mechanically and electronically) is so incredibly simple and there are no politics. It's like supporting the TIFF format; any 8th grade computer science student can implement support for TIFF (it's that simple) and you don't have to license anything from anyone or worry that the specifications of TIFF will suddenly change.

I suspect we'll also continue to see support for the H platform for a good long while. Phase/Leaf continued their commitment to the H platform even after Hasselblad closed the platform. Hasselblad sort-of returning to the open-platform table with the H4X only improves the odds it will be broadly supported for a good while.

But yes, if I were to bet on a platform, I would bet on the combined platform power of Phase One, Mamiya, Leaf, Schneider, Capture One, and Media Pro along with their industry partners like Profoto (see also: V-Grip Air and USB stick). Especially when you talk about "development" meaning new capabilities, features, and advancements. For instance the ability to sync flash wirelessly at 1/1600th with standard studio strobes; that's not something I would have expected e.g. Pentax, to implement.

 Of course - I'm pretty biased :-).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 11:08:25 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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markymarkrb
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« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2012, 11:15:23 AM »
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It makes sense now that the Aptus II 12 was priced 12K lower than the IQ180.  They have 3 levels now with the 80MP sensor.
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eronald
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« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2012, 11:32:42 AM »
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This is interesting information.

A Paris rental house once explained to me that a rental price of 10% of the equipment per diem was fair because it gave me access to equipment I couldn't afford.

Edmund


A lot of our customers actually lease (they own at the end, but pay per month for their lease period). Typically in the range of $200-$800/month depending on the kit and length of lease you can see where many photographers end up leasing rather than consistently renting a digital back. Some even set up a dedicated "separate" company so they can rent it to themselves when particular clients say they'll reimburse rentals but not pay for equipment a photographer owns. This is especially true outside of major markets where the pricing/availability of rental is much less competitive.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2012, 11:52:21 AM »
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This is interesting information.

A Paris rental house once explained to me that a rental price of 10% of the equipment per diem was fair because it gave me access to equipment I couldn't afford.


Sounds pretty Parisian.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Brian Hirschfeld
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« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2012, 11:54:13 AM »
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Hi Yair

Where does the battery go on the new backs, is it still possible to use larger Batteries or is this now as with the Phase Backs limited to 2200 ?

regards
Stefan

My favorite feature, and your least favorite buddy, lol

but knowing their product shot MO it could be conveniently absent from the shots
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2012, 12:00:39 PM »
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Battery is internal. See also Credo FAQ.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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JonMo
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« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2012, 12:02:55 PM »
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Is the USB 3.0 port on THIS version from Phase/Leaf acctually working for teathering, or are we still at the "future implementation" stage?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2012, 12:16:00 PM »
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Is the USB 3.0 port on THIS version from Phase/Leaf acctually working for teathering, or are we still at the "future implementation" stage?

Nope! Still the "future implementation" stage. However, we do have a definitive, straight forward statement that - though it's taken much longer than expected - it's NOT vaporware.

Trust me we feel your pain! It cannot come soon enough.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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eronald
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« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2012, 12:18:29 PM »
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Sounds pretty Parisian.

I have a feeling that if you are a "real" Parisian you are supposed to bill through to your client and get a backhander.

Edmund
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JonMo
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« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2012, 12:27:42 PM »
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Sigh, thanks Doug. ( I think Smiley )
That feature is a real deal breaker for me.
I use Thinkpad workstations in the field for thier durability and exceptional screen.
Having to also cart a Firewire card, a power supply for the Firewire card, a battery supply for the power supply for the Firewire card...............
Maybe soonish.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2012, 03:49:09 PM »
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Hi Yair

Where does the battery go on the new backs, is it still possible to use larger Batteries or is this now as with the Phase Backs limited to 2200 ?

regards
Stefan


Note also that the mAh is now 2900. That helps some. But looks like these will no longer be options...Of course, if you add (2) 2900's together, it's about the same thickness anyway.


Steve Hendrix

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Paul2660
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« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2012, 05:30:45 PM »
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Since it appears that leaf and phase are using the same chassis,  will the 2900 millamp  cells for fit I the IQ backs?  300 more millamps will equate to a bit more run time.

Paul
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 07:10:03 AM by Paul2660 » Logged

Paul Caldwell
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2012, 01:35:51 AM »
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Just a few thoughts:

1. What happened to to argument that a fan is the best way to keep the CCD at a stable temperature?

2. Why is the Leaf Capture not supported. I have seen that many times that LC produces better details than P1.

3. Will the Credo be more easily broken since there is no protective cover on the screen? And what is the cost of replacing it?

4. How come the lowest ISO is moved down from 50 to 35.

5. Is there any picture quality difference at all against the Aptus 12? And why is there no upgrade path from the Aptus 12?

... and when is a camera to match these backs presented?.... the DF is hated by many and the H-system doesn't have lenses with image-circle to match these backs...

Henrik



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design_freak
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« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2012, 02:06:31 AM »
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Hi,
There is only one word
Money  Cool
It's like VW, you can find same tech in Skoda, Seat, VW. It's cost efective  Smiley

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DF

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