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Author Topic: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO  (Read 16368 times)
yaya
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« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2012, 06:35:53 AM »
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1. What happened to to argument that a fan is the best way to keep the CCD at a stable temperature?
This argument is still valid and active cooling (fan) does help in removing heat from the electronics. However there are other technological advances in the Credo (it is after all a much newer design!) that provide this facility and that allow us to do away with the fan and the vents
Quote
2. Why is the Leaf Capture not supported. I have seen that many times that LC produces better details than P1.
Leaf Capture was designed around the .mos format and as such it does not support any other format. Since we already have Capture One with full support for both of these format, there is little sense in putting R&D resources into adding new file support in LC
Quote
3. Will the Credo be more easily broken since there is no protective cover on the screen? And what is the cost of replacing it?
I haven't dropped a Credo yet (I've done this several times with an Aptus) so I don't have 1st hand experience. I expect the replacement cost to be in-line with the Aptus/ P+/ IQ backs
Quote
4. How come the lowest ISO is moved down from 50 to 35.
The new electronics design allows us to maximise the dynamic range of the sensor with improved calibration at a very low iso setting. This also allows us to extend the maximum exposure time (2 minutes on the Credo 80)
Quote
5. Is there any picture quality difference at all against the Aptus 12? And why is there no upgrade path from the Aptus 12?
We've done quite a bit of work in Capture One to make sure that the character and the Aptus's "look" are maintained. The Credo at 35iso will give you another 1/2 a stop of DR (of course this also depends on the scene/ conditions) and obviously it can do longer exposures.
There is no list price for going from Aptus-II 12 to Credo 80 (or from II 8 to 40, II 10 to 60) since the change is not cost effective to you/ us/ dealer. The dealer can provide a price though, on a case-by-case base.
Quote
... and when is a camera to match these backs presented?....
Not yet...

Hope this answers all your questions?

BR

Yair
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 01:38:36 PM by yaya » Logged

Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
henrikfoto
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« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2012, 09:11:21 AM »
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Thank you Yair!
This is very clearifying.

Henrik
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BJL
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« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2012, 10:25:11 AM »
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It's like VW, you can find same tech in Skoda, Seat, VW. It's cost efective  Smiley
And you forgot Audi!
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yaya
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« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2012, 01:40:35 PM »
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And you forgot Audi!
And Bentley and Lamborgini Wink
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BJL
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« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2012, 01:58:25 PM »
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And Bentley and Lamborgini Wink
But I don't think any Bentley or Lamborgini actually uses the same chassis as a Seat!

P. S. I once saw a very old Seat in Spain that was a "Seat 500" --- meaning a badge-engineered FIAT 500 ("seat" in Spanish = "fiat" in latin). Strange how it now clones a different brand of cars.

(Do I win a prize for being furthest of-topic?)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 02:00:46 PM by BJL » Logged
yaya
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« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2012, 02:10:06 PM »
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But I don't think any Bentley or Lamborgini actually uses the same chassis as a Seat!

P. S. I once saw a very old Seat in Spain that was a "Seat 500" --- meaning a badge-engineered FIAT 500 ("seat" in Spanish = "fiat" in latin). Strange how it now clones a different brand of cars.

(Do I win a prize for being furthest of-topic?)

Well neither a (current) Bentley nor a (current) Seat have a chassis....and the Lambo's doesn't even look like a chassis...

BTW Seat was making Fiat or Fiat-based cars for more than 30 years before it became part of the VW group
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design_freak
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« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2012, 02:23:50 PM »
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ&feature=related

 Wink
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Prakash Patel
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« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2012, 12:57:28 PM »
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This argument is still valid and active cooling (fan) does help in removing heat from the electronics. However there are other technological advances in the Credo (it is after all a much newer design!) that provide this facility and that allow us to do away with the fan and the ventsLeaf Capture was designed around the .mos format and as such it does not support any other format. Since we already have Capture One with full support for both of these format, there is little sense in putting R&D resources into adding new file support in LC I haven't dropped a Credo yet (I've done this several times with an Aptus) so I don't have 1st hand experience. I expect the replacement cost to be in-line with the Aptus/ P+/ IQ backsThe new electronics design allows us to maximise the dynamic range of the sensor with improved calibration at a very low iso setting. This also allows us to extend the maximum exposure time (2 minutes on the Credo 80)We've done quite a bit of work in Capture One to make sure that the character and the Aptus's "look" are maintained. The Credo at 35iso will give you another 1/2 a stop of DR (of course this also depends on the scene/ conditions) and obviously it can do longer exposures.
There is no list price for going from Aptus-II 12 to Credo 80 (or from II 8 to 40, II 10 to 60) since the change is not cost effective to you/ us/ dealer. The dealer can provide a price though, on a case-by-case base. Not yet...

Hope this answers all your questions?

BR

Yair

Yair,

A few other questions about the differences or similarities between the Aptus II and the Credo:

1) Does the histogram in the Credo read from the raw files or the preview file? Does it work the same way as the Aptus II
in that is it possible to take spot readings from the photograph and have it show up in the histogram. Is this info tool capability available in the histogram when shooting untethered in the Credo?

2) Does the Credo support the grid tool as it exists in the Aptus II when shooting untethered?
Are you able to move grid lines on the LCD to match the content in the photograph?
If so, how do you accomplish this without the use of a stylus?

3) In reference to the LCD panel.......are both the image area and the extended area on the perimeter of the image touch sensitive? Or is it just the perimeter area outside of the image area that is the touch sensitive screen?

4) Is custom white balance possible when shooting untethered?

5) Can you still load LCC correction files via CF card to the back for untethered use?

6) The Aptus II lasted 1-2 hours shooting untethered on the factory supplied batteries, do you have an estimate
  of how long the battery lasts when shooting untethered continuously on the Credo?

I am just trying to get my head around the evolution of the Credo...are all the new features listed in the tech sheets in addition to the Aptus II features (untethered) or have some features that made the Aptus II unique been deleted?

thanks

prakash
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 12:59:06 PM by Prakash Patel » Logged

Brian Hirschfeld
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« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2012, 01:04:37 PM »
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1) Does the histogram in the Credo read from the raw files or the preview file? Does it work the same way as the Aptus II
in that is it possible to take spot readings from the photograph and have it show up in the histogram. Is this info tool capability available in the histogram when shooting untethered in the Credo?


I don't think or know if anyone has had enough hand on time to be able to tell you this information, I may be wrong.


2) Does the Credo support the grid tool as it exists in the Aptus II when shooting untethered?
Are you able to move grid lines on the LCD to match the content in the photograph?
If so, how do you accomplish this without the use of a stylus?


I think this is the same as above since I have not seen much information about the software. That said I think he lack of the stylus isn't a major jump since instead of one stylus which you can loose you now have 10 which are much much harder to loose track of.

3) In reference to the LCD panel.......are both the image area and the extended area on the perimeter of the image touch sensitive? Or is it just the perimeter area outside of the image area that is the touch sensitive screen?

Based on the information that I found out from DT and so on and talk about my article here, http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/2012/04/23/initial-impressions-leaf-credo-announcement/ , which explains that unlike the PhaseOne IQ series which is entirely touch sensitive the Leaf innovates on this by only having touch sensitive strips along the outside of the image so that you can get a clear view of the image without smudging etc from touching the entire screen.

4) Is custom white balance possible when shooting untethered?

I believe with any back, speaking only from experience with the ones I have used, you have the option to set a white balance based on color temperature, which I believe is what you are referring too.

5) Can you still load LCC correction files via CF card to the back for untethered use?

Software like this again, I wouldn't expect it to change.

6) The Aptus II lasted 1-2 hours shooting untethered on the factory supplied batteries, do you have an estimate
  of how long the battery lasts when shooting untethered continuously on the Credo?


Again may be too early for this.

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design_freak
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« Reply #69 on: April 25, 2012, 02:20:49 PM »
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Is this a good way to treat their costumers Angry?
Leafs costumer care says if I want to change my Aptus 12 (80mp) to a Credo with the same (80mp)
they ask me to pay 15.500$ Angry.  My Aptus has done less than 2.000 exposures.

Good deal?Huh

 Angry Angry Angry

Maybe Hasselblad wants new costumers..?




LOL

If you want to change your H3DII50 to H4D40 You need to pay 12k Euro. New cost 14k. If you want to upgrade to H4D50 you need to pay 12k Euro.   Grin
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 02:24:39 PM by design_freak » Logged

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henrikfoto
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« Reply #70 on: April 25, 2012, 02:40:51 PM »
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Thats really bad..

I guess the best way to loose your money is to buy a new digital back.

Should allways buy a slightly used one. Now the IQ180 can be bougt for 30.000$ with allmost no
usage. Why pay 9.000 more for a new Credo with less functions?
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yaya
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« Reply #71 on: April 25, 2012, 02:46:23 PM »
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Hi Prakash, please see my answers below;

Yair,

A few other questions about the differences or similarities between the Aptus II and the Credo:

1) Does the histogram in the Credo read from the raw files or the preview file? Does it work the same way as the Aptus II
in that is it possible to take spot readings from the photograph and have it show up in the histogram. Is this info tool capability available in the histogram when shooting untethered in the Credo?
The histogram is read from the RAW data however there is no spot meter facility
Quote
2) Does the Credo support the grid tool as it exists in the Aptus II when shooting untethered?
Are you able to move grid lines on the LCD to match the content in the photograph?
If so, how do you accomplish this without the use of a stylus?
There is a grid tool and you can set the colour and the number of the lines. You cannot move them like you do on your back
Quote
3) In reference to the LCD panel.......are both the image area and the extended area on the perimeter of the image touch sensitive? Or is it just the perimeter area outside of the image area that is the touch sensitive screen?
The touch panel covers the image area and adds "strips" on the edges and where the soft buttons are. So you can work within the image or use the soft scrollbars outside of it
Quote
4) Is custom white balance possible when shooting untethered?
Yes, there are 3 "spaces" available: Custom 1,2 & 3
Quote
5) Can you still load LCC correction files via CF card to the back for untethered use?
This remains one of the Aptus-II's unique features
Quote
6) The Aptus II lasted 1-2 hours shooting untethered on the factory supplied batteries, do you have an estimate
of how long the battery lasts when shooting untethered continuously on the Credo?
With the new 2,900mAh batteries we're getting around 3 hrs shooting time, with quite a bit of chimping...
Quote
I am just trying to get my head around the evolution of the Credo...are all the new features listed in the tech sheets in addition to the Aptus II features (untethered) or have some features that made the Aptus II unique been deleted?
A few Aptus-II features had to be discarded due to the different architecture and technology i.e. the onboard "operating system" and the touch panel.
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jsiva
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« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2012, 11:18:51 AM »
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There is no list price for going from Aptus-II 12 to Credo 80 (or from II 8 to 40, II 10 to 60) since the change is not cost effective to you/ us/ dealer. The dealer can provide a price though, on a case-by-case base. Not yet...

Hope this answers all your questions?

BR

Yair

Yair, I was looking forward to the pricing to upgrade my Aptus II 12, as I feel the Credo addresses most of the shortcomings I see in the Aptus II line.  However, the pricing for the upgrade to the Credo 80 from the 12 is almost the same as for upgrading to the Credo 80 from the Aptus II 10. I bought your flagship product, and now I feel like I'm being penalized for it.

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henrikfoto
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« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2012, 02:50:46 PM »
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Yair, I was looking forward to the pricing to upgrade my Aptus II 12, as I feel the Credo addresses most of the shortcomings I see in the Aptus II line.  However, the pricing for the upgrade to the Credo 80 from the 12 is almost the same as for upgrading to the Credo 80 from the Aptus II 10. I bought your flagship product, and now I feel like I'm being penalized for it.


I feel exactly the same!! Really a bad way to trat their best costumers.

Henrik
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jsiva
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« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2012, 02:59:06 PM »
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Yair, I was looking forward to the pricing to upgrade my Aptus II 12, as I feel the Credo addresses most of the shortcomings I see in the Aptus II line.  However, the pricing for the upgrade to the Credo 80 from the 12 is almost the same as for upgrading to the Credo 80 from the Aptus II 10. I bought your flagship product, and now I feel like I'm being penalized for it.



I feel exactly the same!! Really a bad way to trat their best costumers.

Henrik

Henrik,  I won't quote the email I have received from Leaf regarding this issue, it would not be considered polite behaviour.  But, I can tell you that I need a stiff Scotch shortly upon reading it.
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2012, 04:46:12 PM »
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For this upgrade price to the same res back, we could buy a Nikon 800E with a full set of great lenses.
I would have hoped for a fair treatment from Leaf on this .. I hope this is a bad joke.
When Credo2 comes next year or so we know what to expect.

When you buy a new car you loose 20% value after one year.
When you buy a Leaf back you might loose more than 50% value after one year.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 05:34:53 PM by henrikfoto » Logged
jsiva
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« Reply #76 on: May 01, 2012, 05:55:00 PM »
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For this upgrade price to the same res back, we could buy a Nikon 800E with a full set of great lenses.
I would have hoped for a fair treatment from Leaf on this .. I hope this is a bad joke.
When Credo2 comes next year or so we know what to expect.

When you buy a new car you loose 20% value after one year.
When you buy a Leaf back you might loose more than 50% value after one year.

I wish the upgrade from Aptus 12 to Credo 80 was a D800 + a few lenses.  It's a little more Smiley  Get a quote...
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yaya
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« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2012, 05:38:58 AM »
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As shipping time is near I thought I should share these two videos with the forum, worth watching IMO!!!
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« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2012, 06:27:42 AM »
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And Bentley and Lamborgini Wink

will the leaf Bentley edition be british racing green with leather side panels?
i guess the Lambo edition will be yellow as the ferrari H/blad is red?
it's going to be really hard to choose between the 2.
 Roll Eyes
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2012, 03:26:37 PM »
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Yair, can you tell us why the trade-in for Aptus 12 with the same sensor is so terribly high (15.000 US$).
We have allways been told that the sensor is so very expensive. Thats a little hard to beleave now.

Someone told me the sensor now costs less than 2.000 US$. Is that correct?

Henrik

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