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Author Topic: Did the Nikon D800 change the world?  (Read 10527 times)
Josh-H
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 07:28:28 AM »
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Shh, they'll never believe you.

:-)
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2012, 05:15:04 AM »
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Wayne,

Thanks for explaining. Always nice to hear about what is going on in the real world, and your writing is down to earth and pretty free from hype.

Best regards
Erik


Change the "world"?  Lot of interpretation there, but I assume you mean in the context of photographers. Smiley

Speaking as one who operates a small camera and printing store, this certainly is a game changer, much like the 5D Mark2 was.  This puts much higher quality captures in the hands of a great many people.  We have customers come in every day wanting a large image of a file that doesn't have enough resolution.  Then they want to crop it.  they can't afford a higher resolution camera.  They accept what they get because that's their only option.

these cameras are flying out the door, as are the 5D Mark III's.  we're a long way from filling our waiting list.  In the case of 5D3's and some of the d800's this means a large amount of used cameras available to others that now have a better capture device.  end result, thousands of photographers getting higher resolution capability.

Currently it is estimated that there are several hundred thousand "professional" shooters just in the US - these are shooters who take pictures for "money" and very often provide "professional" enlargements. (debating their "professional" standing is irrelevant, they exist, they shoot a lot, and collectively represent a pretty large part of the market now)

I also have a good share of customers who are avid amateurs that are very skilled and do very nice work that also print sizes larger than the file can really handle.

Bottom line, everyone eventually has an image they want printed and printed large.  You can talk all you want about never printing larger than A3 but almost everyone eventually gets an image they would just love a 30x40 of. A great many of those images are well exposed, just not enough resolution.  Some are not so good, and the lack of resolution makes them worse.   Hundreds of thousands of better capture devices moving into the market in an affordable price range means many of those prints will look better, some substantially better.

While it is true the skill lies in the person and not the gear, when making large prints you can't make up for poor resolution.

And to be honest this is probably just the beginning.  Within a year there is a strong possibility a 36mp camera will come along for under $2k, and then someone will go to 40 or 45 megapixel (also maybe within the next year)  and suddenly a 24mp full frame equivalent device will show up for $1400 ...  within a few years the great majority of shooters will suddenly have the potential of better prints.

(and then new technology will make prints obsolete, but then those devices may indeed be retina type displays of 240 or better ppi so the higher resolution cameras still offer something)

Now how 'significant' all of this is and whether it "changes the world" is certainly debatable and really doesn't have an answer since the concept is pretty subjective.  It's certainly changing my world ...

fun to speculate ... can't wait to see what's next ...


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Scott O.
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« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2012, 11:55:27 AM »
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Naw, the world is just as screwed up as it ever was.  But now we can take sharper images of it...
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2012, 02:13:38 PM »
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 :-) That was a good one! :-)

Naw, the world is just as screwed up as it ever was.  But now we can take sharper images of it...
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Chris Pollock
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« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 06:16:34 AM »
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Naw, the world is just as screwed up as it ever was.  But now we can take sharper images of it...
That's a good point. As much as I like photography, I can think of many things that the world needs a lot more than a better camera.
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Keith Reeder
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« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 01:59:05 PM »
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Has it changed the world?

Yeah.

Apparently it's turned every photographer on every photography forum on the net into a low-ISO-DR-obsessed landscape photographer who couldn't take a picture worth a tinker's cuss until the D800 arrived...
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Keith Reeder
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« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2012, 02:12:47 PM »
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Apparently it's turned every photographer on every photography forum on the net into a low-ISO-DR-obsessed landscape photographer who couldn't take a picture worth a tinker's cuss until the D800 arrived...

 Cheesy Cheesy
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2012, 04:36:17 PM »
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That's a good point. As much as I like photography, I can think of many things that the world needs a lot more than a better camera.
Bingo.
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Ellis Vener
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jeremypayne
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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2012, 04:57:08 PM »
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Has it changed the world?

Yeah.

Apparently it's turned every photographer on every photography forum on the net into a low-ISO-DR-obsessed landscape photographer who couldn't take a picture worth a tinker's cuss until the D800 arrived...

I'm actually rediscovering my love of the D700 and will likely NOT upgrade as I had planned and will probably buy an OM-D instead.
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BJL
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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 06:23:22 PM »
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I'm actually rediscovering my love of the D700 and will likely NOT upgrade as I had planned and will probably buy an OM-D instead.
Mybe getting off topic, but yes, maybe everything worth saying about the D800 has been said, and it is time to move onto the OM-D E-M5, which makes more of the opportunities provided by the change to electronic sensors to do things differently, rather than just making progress through "more of the same" (same format shape and size as 35mm film, same optical approach to the viewfinder, same body shape and size and weight as a high end 35mm film camera, same big lenses, no tiltable LCD, no VF well suited for video, despite having a video mode, no sensor based stabilization that works with all lenses ...)

For cost alone, this sort of camera might change the photographic world for more people than a $3000 Borged Nikon F100.
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Eric Brody
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« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2012, 11:25:45 AM »
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I've been using my D800E for almost a week, using it a lot. I love it. Will it change the world (of photography)? It will in the sense that any new, better tool can improve the craft. It won't in that I am the same (lousy) photographer I was last week. All my cameras have been better than me, from my dad's Rolleiflex through my Beseler Topcon, Mamiya 7, Arca 4x5, D70, D700, and now D800E (I am sure I missed a few in there). I do love the impressive detail it can resolve. For an amateur like me, it likely saved me many thousands of dollars as I was seriously considering a used MF back for my Hasselblad V camera. I have no interest in whether the D800E is "better" than a MF digital back. I'll likely never have a MFDB, and likely will never need one. I was quite happy with my prints from my D700 with good lenses and I'll be even happier with my prints from the new camera. I'll still take sharp photos of fuzzy concepts, to paraphrase Ansel. For now, it is the camera I have wanted since I switched to digital years ago. With the tilt-shift lenses, and excellent live view, it approaches what I always loved about view camera photography, the opportunity to put the camera on a tripod, look around, find the image, adjust the camera to how I want it to look, and make the exposure easily. And... I end up with a result I can preview in the field and achieve "pre-visualization." The camera will not make me a better artist, perhaps it will enable me to be a better craftsman.
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Rob C
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« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2012, 11:44:20 AM »
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I'm actually rediscovering my love of the D700 and will likely NOT upgrade as I had planned and will probably buy an OM-D instead.



I've not lost my love for mine, either, and I certainly have no intentions of upgrading to anything, ever again, just as long as the old D700 keeps on truckin'. Neither do I intend buying a lesser camera - already have a cellphone one.

Rob C
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2012, 01:22:12 AM »
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Has it changed the world?

The pixel density of the Nikon D800 = (36 MP/24/36) = 42,014 pixels per mm2, I've heard of a body (don't have it) that has (18MP/22.3/14.9) = 54,173 pixels per mm2.  If it the sensor was enlarged to FF, it would have approx. 46.8 MP.  Is my math close enough (I did some rounding)?
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Rob C
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« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2012, 03:53:05 AM »
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Has it changed the world?

The pixel density of the Nikon D800 = (36 MP/24/36) = 42,014 pixels per mm2, I've heard of a body (don't have it) that has (18MP/22.3/14.9) = 54,173 pixels per mm2.  If it the sensor was enlarged to FF, it would have approx. 46.8 MP.  Is my math close enough (I did some rounding)?




I don't know, Glenn, maths was never my thing, rounded or otherwise. On further consideration, 36-26-36 has a sort of divine rhythm to it, I suppose. Much as with true R'n'R, then, similarly dated but divine.

Where were you in '62? I guess I know where I was, more or less: entombed deep within an industrial darkroom producing prints of turbine blades; my Dark Age, so to speak.

;-)

Rob C
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Eddy M
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« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2012, 04:41:51 AM »
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It changed people's opinion about megapixels. Previously, many believed that high mp sensor only generates more noise. D800 proved that it has very good noise control, even better when scaled down.

It's time for 100+ mp camera.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2012, 10:07:20 AM »
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It certainly changed the look of forums. Especially the Canon froums.  Cheesy
Eduardo
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luxborealis
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« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2012, 03:56:43 PM »
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Erik, my take on the D800 is that it is an incremental step forward in technology that happens to have crossed a more significant psychological threshold, several in fact.  

1) It challenges widely held misconceptions about the utility of "small pixels"...

2) It provides a sufficient amount of MTF ... that one can clearly see enhanced rendering of fine textures and detail...

3) It can make an exhibition-sized print without perceptible compromise.


To add to LKaven's salient points, the D800 is step towards democratizing image quality. When the high cost of entry into any industry or industry segment is reduced, it opens up opportunities that were not there previously. Whether or not it results in better photography will depend entirely on who is using one, but at least now, those who could not previously enter the world of the high IQ offered by MF systems or backs can now get there a little more readily.

Don't underestimate the financial and psychological importance of this. While it can be argued that, to a professional, the difference between a Pentax 645D system and a Nikon D800 is only a few years of depreciation written off against income tax, to those who don't have the start-up income or the desire for business (proverbial "starving artists" amongst them), but love to create and express themselves through photography, this can be a game changer in many ways.

That being said, there is no doubt that the lion's share of D800s will, in fact, be purchased the those who have more money than sense and just want the latest, greatest, biggest, best, so it won't be a game changer there - just technically great, larger files of little lasting consequence.

At the same time, I am curious to know how well Nikon sales go over the next 12 months not just of D800 bodies, but of their prime lenses and high quality zooms. I wonder if the D800 must just create a small resurgence in prime lenses.

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Terry McDonald
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Fine_Art
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« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2012, 04:43:01 PM »
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+1
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ndevlin
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« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2012, 10:03:21 AM »
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Did the D800 change the world?  "Yes", if your world consists mostly of #firstworldproblems  Smiley

"Yes", if you make medium format cameras for living.

It also mates, for the first time, a level of IQ that would satisfy essentially any photographic craftsman, even those who specialize in large prints, with the ease and convenience of a state-of-the-art 35mm DSLR. That's pretty significant for some.   
 
It's simply the most 'important' technological advance in digital photography...until the next one.

- N.
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
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« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2012, 03:22:08 PM »
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In terms of technology/bang for buck, the D800 has changed the expectations of many. Game changer? Yes.

In terms of success as a photographer, those who make exceptional images will have the means to make slightly larger, slightly sharper and slightly more detailed exceptional images. Those who make shite will have the means to make slightly larger, slightly sharper and slightly more detailed shite. Game changer? No. 
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