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Author Topic: Capture One !  (Read 8369 times)
Morgan_Moore
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« on: May 04, 2012, 02:32:04 AM »
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Nuts.

I just got some frames and exported them from my FCP timeline as Tiffs

Opend them up in capture one

Had my lovely curves, satureation white balance clicker and all the rest

Did one image from the shot

Pasted the setting to the other images in the shot

Exported the images

Its the nicect motion grading experience ive ever had.

More to follow!

S
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Hywel
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 03:20:20 AM »
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and that's why I bought a RED.

Cheers, Hywel.

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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 03:21:09 AM »
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This is an interesting poor mans version

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 03:27:07 AM »
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Yeah, the I.S workflow is interesting.  Poor man I'm not sure because it's used a lot in the cinema.

In Nuke I always worked in image sequence and in Edius I work quite a lot in I.S. You can do that in PS too with the extended version.

the only downside I see is

1: the volume storage.
2: you'd have to fragmented the takes to grade what belongs to a same look family while you do that real time in the timeline in video softwares.  


To be more precise, as there is unfortunatly no holly grail yet:


You can't really give yourself an idea with a fragment. You'd have to work on a full project to really apreciate the all picture.
There are some issues.
Let's say that you cut and let's assume that you had your exposure previously corrected if needed. In short, that your entire video is equilibrated. (you're not going to do that in C1 or PS because you'd need the hability to isolate what has to be re-equilibrated)
Then you can render an IS in more than 8 bits and grade. It works very well. But as I pointed, you'd need to fragment the cuts that belong to the same family where you want to apply this particular grading.
In practise, it needs a good orga and it's time consuming.
If you change your mind later, you'd need to re-do the process manually.
Also, the moment you need to track mask, make bezier curves etc...it complicates a lot but let's say you're in PS and you do it. You'd have a apply a complex script and then, when you apply the script to each frame and correct in each frame because the automatization is limited, it's going in the end to take a lot more time (much more).
But on the other hand, it's possible to reach perfection. The IS technique in PS is used in the high-end with stunning results but keep in mind that it's more a frame by frame workflow, similar to cartoon. For one guy in post it could be crazy. It depends a lot on the project.
If it's just a colour grade of an entire clip it will be fine. But if you'd work with fragments, it's going to be very long with lots of renderings.
So if it's interesting in certain situations, it can be a comnplete burden in others.

The best is that you do a complete clip with this technique so you'll see the limitations and the goodies.

Best



« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 04:43:44 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 05:28:04 AM »
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I can see the limitation for tracking

As for volume storage my flow is this..

Exports some stills, work them, make a new clip, delete the stills

Now projects get changed around, thats my problem with Colour - I have not got the hang of going back and making small changes, Adding an extra clip to a sequence from colour etc

While Capture One is most likely limited I think the readers of the board here may find it an interesting element in their armour

Basically its simple (to my stills head) for example in a project that doent need grading in the main to grab a single clip or two that need correction and re-import them having corrected them in C1

At some point Im goind to have to really apply myself to finding and learning a proper Pro workflow for motion

IMO

S



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Pete_G
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 05:33:12 AM »
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Have you looked at the FREE version of Da Vinci Resolve yet? It designed specifically as a colour correction tool, which Motion isn't.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 06:13:24 AM »
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I tried that but got a lot of crashes - in fact I cant remember opening it up - and my pooter is fairly tidy

People started talking tech about graphics cards pwer and the like

Proper investigation will be part of my learning mission stated above

C1 works right now with no learning wall to climb and no software to install - thats why I though it might be of interest to others..

Putting together even small projects is (to newb me) such a challenge - cutting/continuity, sound design to make something hang together; the grade comes pretty low in the list at the mo.. I try and get it right in camera .. and ripping my computer apart.. even lower.,

S

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 06:17:50 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 06:47:54 AM »
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When Da Vinci resolve was available for peecees, I've installed the free version too, and never opened it again. It's not that it's bad, but the grading capabilities of Edius are unlimited, included tracking and are allowing the same than a Da Vinci, only in certain circunstances just a little more tedius. BUT...I don't leave the NLE, nor have more interface learning and more linking.
Learning Resolve was another learning curve and being good at it was other months until you get the thing mastered properly. No thanks!

No thanks, when you can do very good colour grading in Avid or Grass Valley Thomson NLEs. In fact as good as with any other dedicated software but, yes, with a less specialized interface. If I was a color artist only, I'd work with a specialist software to gain time and comfort. But in fact the teevees and not tv guys that work documentaries, concerts etc... in Edius grade generally with it, not in Resolve, and it's damn fast and unlimited in terms of performances and possibilities. In fact you'd do an entire project from A to Z except advanced compositing in it with no export-rendering etc...

So those workflows exist already, the Edius above is just an example.

The other day I saw a high-end prod house on set (concert) with more than 8 Thomson Grass Valley HD Elite cameras (that have 3 ccd with more than 9MP and output a 34-bit digital signal processing resolution...)
http://www.grassvalley.com/docs/DataSheets/cameras/ldk8000_elite/CAM-4033D-7_LDK8000_Elite.pdf
and a mobile editing truck with Edius etc...when a minute costs a fortune and things have to be done fast.
Do you think those guys mess with efficiency-performances? Of course they don't.

I agree with you Morgan, the best you can do on set in-camera is less manipulation and hassles in post.  
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 07:33:18 AM by fredjeang » Logged
billy
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2012, 08:12:40 AM »
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Can u please explain what you are doing a bit? I do not understand.

Nuts.

I just got some frames and exported them from my FCP timeline as Tiffs

Opend them up in capture one

Had my lovely curves, satureation white balance clicker and all the rest

Did one image from the shot

Pasted the setting to the other images in the shot

Exported the images

Its the nicect motion grading experience ive ever had.

More to follow!

S
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 08:18:12 AM »
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The basic mission is to grade a clip or sequence using Capture One.

Using FCP this is the basic workflow..

Export the bit you want to grade as Tiff image sequence

View that sequence in Capture One

First frame of a shot create a look using curves WB clicker desat

Copy that look to all frames in the shot

Move to next shot repeat

Export new (graded) tiffs from C1

Use QTime7 to creat movie from image sequence

Export that sequence as ProRezz

Import that clip into the FCP project and place it on the timeline where the original ungraded clip was.

--

Might be a dumb thing to do but seems that C1 offers fine control over the image through an interface I have been using for 5=10 years

(and that is the key point fine control over the look of the image using an interface that I know inside out - using software I own and works on my machine today)

I think its also 'non destructive'

While I get along OK with apple colour - it can get me in a tangle - when you have more than one track on the TL or maybe want to add another shot to the sequence after you graded or other boondangle non linear ways of editing..

For example Im working on a short and a long piece at the moment where some but not all of the short edit makes the long edit

S

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:26:37 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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bcooter
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 08:33:10 AM »
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Fred,

Do yourself a favor.

Go find a used Imac I5 or I7 and load FCP studio just to get apple color.  You can do this on the cheap, about the price of a tangent board to run di-vinci.

Then for $25 go through the whole course of Lynda.com

http://tinyurl.com/73nstuw

Apple Color will track, color, has presets, you can make your own effects, it's a prorezz based, but big deal conversion is a snap.

It's a dead end suite, just like FCP7 but the upside is since video changes move at a glacier pace, 2k will probably be around long after people say "what's an Iphone".

It does 99.999% of DiVinci is much more functional with more options than any nle colorng controls and let's face it, owning a mac even though they are dropping their large boxes, has it's benefits.

But once again, learn it front to back, don't just start part of a project and drop it, really learn it until you make each clip amazing and you'll dig it and make footage that is of hollywood level.

Try it, you'll like it.

IMO

BC

P.S.  I know this year we'll move to HP peecess for our main boxes as we move to premier, but like cameras, it is important to have options and most of the creative world is going to view your video on an I mac, powerbook or Ipad.

P.S.2   I'm off the Apple coolaid, as I always saw apple as a tool that did stuff and every year they seem to do less of what I need.    I've had two generations of Ipads and personally don't see the point.   I can't do anything worthwhile with them, not real professional work and everyone that works for me, every client I work for has one and I ask them what they really do with them and they say show presentations or some non flash based websites and most of the time a few e-mails and watch videos.

So I'm not an Apple fan, expecially after FCPX?   X is a pretty good icon for this software, but you can't deny that 99.9999999% of the creatives you work with own Apple, view on apple, make their decisions from an apple screen so just like in the days when I kept a pee cee for corporate clients to make sure everythign plays well, we will keep our apples to make sure everything looks good on an Imac screen.



« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:01:25 AM by bcooter » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 09:02:52 AM »
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Fred,

Do yourself a favor.

Go find a used Imac I5 or I7 and load FCP studio just to get apple color.  You can do this on the cheap, about the price of a tangent board to run di-vinci.

Then for $25 go through the whole course of Lynda.com

http://tinyurl.com/73nstuw

Apple Color will track, color, has presets, you can make your own effects, it's a prorezz based, but big deal conversion is a snap.

It's a dead end suite, just like FCP7 but the upside is since video changes move at a glacier pace, 2k will probably be around long after people say "what's an Iphone".

It does 99.999% of DiVinci is much more functional with more options than any nle colorng controls and let's face it, owning a mac even though they are dropping their large boxes, has it's benefits.

But once again, learn it front to back, don't just start part of a project and drop it, really learn it until you make each clip amazing and you'll dig it and make footage that is of hollywood level.

Try it, you'll like it.

BTW:   I know this year we'll move to HP peecess for our main boxes as we move to premier, but like cameras, it is important to have options and most of the creative world is going to view your video on an I mac, powerbook or Ipad.

IMO

BC



Absolutly. You know that I'm not an Apple fan when it comes to motion and I specially don't like FCP, but I have always highly respected Apple Color since the day I saw some tutorials on Creative Cow.
It's very good and despite it's a dead-end application, I've thought more than once doing the grading in Color. I'd have no problem to use it.
I've been following several tutorials during some time and really liked the interface and capabilities.
The edius NLE grading capabilities are giving me the same power (but differently implemented and not in prores workflow), that's why I really didn't worked on Color, my mantra being "in the NLE", but it's a really good software and lots of users are missing it in the new versions.
I don't discart using it in the future. I like Apple Color and no prob if it will be dead-end. After all, it's the same with the Contax no? Have they really made a much better camera body since?




 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:11:08 AM by fredjeang » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 10:27:18 AM »
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Just a quick aditional note to show why I like so much Edius and its capabilities when it comes to grading. It's only a question of fastness-efficiency. I couldn't care less about the brand.

-First, it is a wysiwyg editor. The monitoring is the output and it is in real time (up to 4K).

-It's possible to use beziers curves with no limitation in complexity, assign them a behaviour frame by frame, manually track them, affecting the drawing frame by frame, and assign separatly unlimited corrections
inside, outside, and on the edges of those curves, control the nature of the edges, the smoothness etc... The only limitation is your computer power.
All the parameters are changeable frame by frame. You can add or rest unlimited color corrections, using different techniques, cumulating as much as you want all the different grading tools (curves, color correct wheels etc...).
You can rebuild the geometry of your vectors, affecting them point by point at any time with not having to re-do everything. All is transparent, non-destructive and tunable.

-You can isolate tones and colors, luminance, saturation etc... and work on each separatly and assign tolerances as well as mixing all those parameters together in one window and control the % of each and of course you always have a mate to control.

-You can work on "layers", being an editor it will be video tracks. Assign transparencies on any part of the layer, doing a specific color correct on one point in a layer and on another in another layer. Each layer being unlimited in terms of masks + color correction cumulation, of course green-screens...it gives the same hability as PS but within the timeline, in real time and in output resolution. In fact I think it's even more robust and versatile than a PS is for stills. Because the capability for color grading is kept for filters too included the most complex masks and both are mixable. It's a sort of having a little AE within the editor.

But of course, if you cumulate a lot of layers, a lot of complex beziers and a lot of keyframes with lots of color correction + effects, your computer power will determine soon the limit. The software is unlimited, just the computer is. The other day I went too far for my computer and the software in this case only allows you to export in a smaller format in 8bits. But it only happened to me once.

And of course you can save your settings and apply them to any part of the footage you want. The saved settings are saved permanently and can be used in another project. It's completly customizable and you can always come back on a saved setting, re-tune it or make "families".

And all that without leaving the editor, within your timeline, without the need to re-link anything and with the security that what you grade will be the output seen. You can switch from proxies to the high-res files in a click and immediatly view the high res version, then back in proxie mode, then relink all the edited footage by another format that has been generated elesewhere with no limitation in about 15 secs watch in hand task completed.

And, it's intuitive, not user-unfriendly like Avid. the grading can be done in 10 bits. It's not going to replace a Nuke or purely an AE but can indeed replace a Resolve or a Scratch.

It takes almost all the formats on earth natively (except Red), included P2, avchds etc...

The only downsides I really don't like in this editor is the timewrapper that is a real mess and still don't understand how it works. All the rest is damn efficient. The other downside is that it's not native R3D friendly. The Red workflow on it is a DPX one. Another big downside is that it won't recognize PS layers. But overall, the balance is extremely positive.

Of course it's also stereo capable and multicam workflow is exemplary.


That's why I entered in resolve and then thought, for what, if I'm not limited in grading tools? Another learning curve didn't seem necesary.

In the end when maximum tasks can be done in NLE I applaude. (or in one software)


Now, I think that the Jame's move to Adobe is very good. (PS layer compatible, Red workflow efficient etc...)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:55:50 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 03:06:37 PM »
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https://vimeo.com/41582054

IMO some shots worked, some I overcooked

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 03:33:39 PM »
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Oh yeah, it certainly works. But I don't get the point of a transcoding to tiff or dpx and another back to prores.

If you'd had raw video it would make sense. If you where using I.S in PS also because you could apply all the layers capabilities.
But grading like you did can be done in any NLE or color app without rendering, faster and with more flexibility.
In Nuke you'd work in Image Sequence, yes, but for compositing, otherwise it's crazy. Export, doing scripts, render...
just to keep the sliders of the stills workflow?

So it seems that what you are looking for is an application interface that you like and know, but that wasn't thought for motion.
You win in one side and you loose somewhere else.

Why not simply keeping Apple Color wich is a very good application?

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:38:54 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 03:38:48 PM »
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I have had two issues with colour.. (probably solvable with enough research)

-The workflow becomes awkard when you want to modify a project - you have to re-render the whole thing
-Colour shifts between FCP and colour and final output

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 03:45:30 PM »
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I have had two issues with colour.. (probably solvable with enough research)

-The workflow becomes awkard when you want to modify a project - you have to re-render the whole thing
-Colour shifts between FCP and colour and final output

S


Is it a QT display issue only or a shift between Color and FCP too?
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 04:23:55 PM »
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I would have to go back and check to confirm which..

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 11:53:31 AM »
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You may also want to look into CS6 with  Speed Grade.  I haven't tried it yet, but it's another option out there.

I personally really dig Resolve.  It can do what you're trying to accomplish via C1 Pro in about 10 seconds.  You do need to go through some tutorials, but that time spent has saved me so much more in grading time. The software runs beautifully on my system, but I've given it an expansion chassis with a couple extra graphics cards and red rocket, so....  

Unrelated...  C1 Pro is awesome for creating time-lapse sequences from my 5d2 Wink

CB
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 11:55:27 AM by CBarrett » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2012, 12:54:39 PM »
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Thank you

I will look into all of this when I have time - bizarrely Im getting quite busy shooting.. famous last words!

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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