Why does Adobe hate non-Americans so much?

[Justan]

That would make sense but then if I were a stockholder I'd want the companies motivated somehow.

They are motivated - to maintain the status quo. MS and Adobe are both goliaths with completely sewn up market places. They tend to collaborate more than really compete. They both lavish Apple with Mac versions of consumer products. They both have adopted the idea of the model year to their production schedule. They both provide limited support intervals and endless opportunity for add-on support. And most importantly, they have virtually no competition.

Google is a potential contender with Picasa (and i suppose and to MS Office with Google Docs), but Picasa is a long way from the professional tools provided by Adobe. Every time a 3rd party comes along with something exceptional, the company gets bought out by these guys. So it makes me wonder what could be done to motivate Adobe? (or other other top software producers, for that matter.) The policy shown by Adobe is one of leveraging its access to each customer.

[Farmer]

Comparing GIMP to a potential product from MS is silly.  GIMP doesn't have to worry about the same support issues, doesn't have to pay staff, deal with corporate issues and so on, it's also taken it years and years to reach the level it has.

[Justinr]

Comparing GIMP to a potential product from MS is silly.  GIMP doesn't have to worry about the same support issues, doesn't have to pay staff, deal with corporate issues and so on, it's also taken it years and years to reach the level it has.

Have you any idea of the p*ss poor level of support that MS offer for Expression Web? A forum with one or two helpful souls on it whilst the rest are just the usual crowd of IT prima donnas. There is an awful lot more useful info on Gimp etc available than there is Expression.

Why has Gimp taken so long to reach the level it has? Exactly because it hasn't been paying staff, a few million would certainly accelerate its development.

[Farmer]

Exactly my point.  If MS were to provide the level of support to which we are accustomed for Windows or Office or the like, it would cost a fortune.

[Chris Pollock]

Exactly my point.  If MS were to provide the level of support to which we are accustomed for Windows or Office or the like, it would cost a fortune.

What one company can do, another can do too. The fact that an apparently highly profitable product has no competition is an anomoly. Manufacturing and supporting airliners, automobiles, microprocessors, and gaming consoles isn't exactly easy either, yet each of these industries has multiple players.

Do Microsoft and Adobe offer free tech support with their software these days? I honestly don't know, because the idea of calling Adobe's support hasn't even crossed my mind. These days most questions about how to do something can be answered by a quick Google search. If that fails you can always try a user forum, or even a good old-fashioned book.

The only times I've had to call Microsoft's support were to fix problems with their troublesome activation process. The support staff were polite and efficient, but I wouldn't have needed to bother them if the software had been better designed.

I realize that "support" also means things like adding support for new cameras and lenses. This is a major task, but hardly insurmountable. DxO Labs have apparently been doing OK, and they're a minnow compared to Microsoft.

[Chris Pollock]

Oh, man! So many brilliant business-strategy ideas in this thread! I am sure Microsoft talent acquisition experts are trying to locate you as we speak. In the meantime, or if that does not pan out, why don't you try to participate in the "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader" show?

Since you're apparently the only person here who knows anything about business and economics, perhaps you'll be kind enough to share some of your knowledge with the rest of us. I'd be interested to read your opinion on the following questions:

Why does an apparently highly profitable product such as Photoshop have no close competition? Why hasn't the potential for profit motivated effective rivals to join the market?

Why can't Adobe get away with charging the same prices in America that they do in Britain, Japan, and Australia? (I haven't researched prices elsewhere, but maybe you'd care to do so?) What are the American people doing to force Adobe to charge them less than people in other countries are obliged to pay? I'm sure most non-Americans would love to know the answer to this question. I think we should find out what the American people are doing, and do the same thing ourselves.

[Farmer]

Chris, yes, free support for the most part, although there are obviously paid-for agreements with larger corporates or those requiring additional support and the like.

Support even includes websites, user forums, and so on.

[Chris Pollock]

BTW, I might have missed it somewhere but how does the cost of Photoshop cloud differ globally?

Here in Australia it's $62.99 a month, or about 26% more than the $49.99 US price. In Britain it's £46.88 (50% markup), and in Japan it's advertised as "from 5,000 yen a month" (24% markup). I can't be bothered finding out what the "from" means. These are still big markups compared to the US, but a lot more reasonable than the Photoshop upgrade prices.

I'm guessing that Adobe would like to move customers to a subscription pricing system. It has the obvious advantage of guaranteeing a steady income stream as long as people want to use their software. If people buy the software, they can choose to forgo future upgrades if they don't need the new features. If they rent the software, they lose this option.

For the same reason that subscription pricing is good for the vendor, it's bad for the customer. It commits you to paying every month in perpetuity, even if Adobe never add a new feature that you want. If Adobe decide to raise the price, you have no option but to pay up or lose the ability to access the data that you saved in Adobe formats.

I would never even consider renting software.

[Justinr]

Exactly my point.  If MS were to provide the level of support to which we are accustomed for Windows or Office or the like, it would cost a fortune.

I doubt that I have ever had to trouble MS more than two, maybe three times for support on any product. With Expression they merely provide a forum the regular members of which claim they are not paid by MS. How much is that costing them?

[Justinr]

Here in Australia it's $62.99 a month, or about 26% more than the $49.99 US price. In Britain it's £46.88 (50% markup), and in Japan it's advertised as "from 5,000 yen a month" (24% markup). I can't be bothered finding out what the "from" means. These are still big markups compared to the US, but a lot more reasonable than the Photoshop upgrade prices.

I'm guessing that Adobe would like to move customers to a subscription pricing system. It has the obvious advantage of guaranteeing a steady income stream as long as people want to use their software. If people buy the software, they can choose to forgo future upgrades if they don't need the new features. If they rent the software, they lose this option.

For the same reason that subscription pricing is good for the vendor, it's bad for the customer. It commits you to paying every month in perpetuity, even if Adobe never add a new feature that you want. If Adobe decide to raise the price, you have no option but to pay up or lose the ability to access the data that you saved in Adobe formats.

I would never even consider renting software.

In Ireland it's €62 ($79) per month if you sign up for a year or €88 on a month by month basis which equates to $112 or over twice the US price!

It seems that old habits die hard.

[graeme]

Hi Keith

Had a look at Lightroom over on the other section of LuLa; it sure appears to have problems - one of them, for me, being the need for a much more powerful computer! Guess I'll get along without correcting any verticals...


Oh - a new art gallery opened here on Sunday - run by the front lady who ran the big one here that was closed down recently because the owners realised that there were more profitable things to do with property. We had a chat - something may come from it at some time. At least we know each other from the old gallery, so it's not cold calling!


;-)

Rob C

Hi Rob

You might be able to sort out your verticals using Pshops Crop Tool. I think it worked in PS6. Make sure you have the 'Perspective' box checked.

Tutorial here ( No 2. Perspective Crop ):

http://digital-photography-school.com/5-secrets-of-the-photoshop-crop-tool

If this doesn't work in PS6 check out the Edit - Transform - Distort or Perspective options.

Graeme

[Farmer]

For those quoting "overseas" pricing, what is the tax included?  (the US price is without tax).  Would be a useful comparison this way.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...What are the American people doing to force Adobe to charge them less than people in other countries are obliged to pay?..,

You mean apart from having created a 300-million single market?

P.S. They are not obliged to pay

[Justinr]

Hi Keith

Had a look at Lightroom over on the other section of LuLa; it sure appears to have problems - one of them, for me, being the need for a much more powerful computer! Guess I'll get along without correcting any verticals...


Oh - a new art gallery opened here on Sunday - run by the front lady who ran the big one here that was closed down recently because the owners realised that there were more profitable things to do with property. We had a chat - something may come from it at some time. At least we know each other from the old gallery, so it's not cold calling!

;-)

Rob C

I to had a look to see if Lightroom would suit my out of studio jobs and was tempted to go for it but then I came across the users comments on dpreview - http://www.dpreview.com and went for Fastone instead which has come  a long way of late. Not sure whether it's entirely free though as the last download just stopped working within a couple of months as did a noise reduction tool from the same stable. I'm wondering if a donation would have made the difference although nothing is stated. If it works for me than I will, the noise reduction item didn't.

[Rob C]

Hi Rob

You might be able to sort out your verticals using Pshops Crop Tool. I think it worked in PS6. Make sure you have the 'Perspective' box checked.

Tutorial here ( No 2. Perspective Crop ):

http://digital-photography-school.com/5-secrets-of-the-photoshop-crop-tool

If this doesn't work in PS6 check out the Edit - Transform - Distort or Perspective options.

Graeme

Thank you, Graeme, I'll have a look at that and see what happens!

Rob C

[Chris Pollock]

You mean apart from having created a 300-million single market?

Yes, but I'm a little vague on how the fact that there are 300 million people in America forces Adobe to charge them a lower price. Note that there are 120 million or so people in Japan, but their price isn't that different to Australia's or Britain's. Could you please provide a little detail on the causative mechanism?

I'd also like to remind you that this whole "single market" thing is a fantasy anyway - the whole world is a single market for downloaded software, unless companies deliberately take steps to break it up.

[Chris Pollock]

For those quoting "overseas" pricing, what is the tax included?  (the US price is without tax).  Would be a useful comparison this way.

Today I investigated Adobe's Australian store more closely, and discovered that if you choose the download rather than physical delivery, they can somehow avoid charging GST, so the price drops to $307, which is the same price as the CS4 to CS5 upgrade. This doesn't really weaken my complaint about price gouging however, because the price is still 54% more than in the US, and Adobe can no longer use tax as a partial justification. (In fact the download price would be 70 cents more than physical delivery if you added the tax back on.)

BTW, I noticed that the Australian site still has "Preorder" for CS6, but the US site has "Buy". They probably just forgot to change it.

To give Adobe some credit, I noticed that a full copy of Lightroom 4 can be downloaded for $187, a markup of about 25% over the US price of $149. I think this is bordering on reasonable, if we give Adobe the benefit of the doubt. You get 30% off Lightroom if you also buy a Photoshop CS6 upgrade, which comes to $437.90 for both programs.

It does seem strange that Adobe give a better deal on the cheaper product. You'd think it would make more sense to steer people towards the more expensive option. I guess their marketing people thought the Photoshop market is less price-sensitive.

I didn't research the deals in other countries for lack of time. It's easy enough for any interested person to do.

[Chris Pollock]

I've been trying to download a trial copy of Lightroom, but nothing is happening. I hope someone at Adobe hasn't noticed this thread and blocked my access as punishment.

[Rob C]

Chris, before you do, have you read any of the posts over in the specialist/dedicated threads for Lightroom here in LuLa?

Might be worth paying for the real PS after all... if you live in the States!

;-)

Rob C

[johnbeardy]

And make sure you balance reading those posts with the fact that it's not the majority experience....