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Author Topic: demise of Gold Fibre Silk?  (Read 15502 times)
deanwork
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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2012, 12:40:12 AM »
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I believe you. I think it is working much smoother with the Epson K3 in ways it is not with the other printers. It is totally unacceptable for black and white with the new Canons.

If you lay down a dark background anywhere near a lighter value then your screwed. And this is with careful linearization and ink limiting of the media. The other really bad issue I had with the Ilford is the way it scratches. Look at the white borders of any print and I'd be shocked if it didn't have scratching there. I found it scratched before I even got it in the printer, and that was handling it with cotton gloves. I just gave up. I can throw the Harmon around like a matte paper and I never had a scratched emulsion.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2012, 03:36:36 AM »
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Jan, according to many in the know (my own experience is limited with Ilford GFS) Ilford GFs and Canson Baryta Photographique have very similar (perhaps even identical) characteristics.

Regards

Tony Jay

Add the Innova IFA69 Baryta to the two clones. If still available, the Innovaart site does not show it anymore in the catalog but I see that several distributors still advertise it.

Interesting to read that Innova has a different opinion on Baryta on its Fibaprint page:

>> The first step was to find the right paper, a task that was made simple by modern improvements to Titanium dioxide. Unlike other ‘Baryta’ type papers which have since been launched onto the market, we were confident our choice of a smooth, fibre-based paper with Titanium dioxide, rather than Barite, would deliver because Titanium dioxide is now at least as good, if not better than, the Barium sulfate used in barite papers. <<

http://www.innovaart.com/en/fibaprint.html

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2012, 07:04:08 AM »
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I saw the same thing on the Innova website.  I believe that titanium dioxide is more expensive than barium sulfate but perhaps it's not terribly relevant given the amounts that are used in the production of inkjet papers.  TiO2 is the compound of choice in the paint and coatings industry where really large volumes are used.  The new Innova paper is being marketed as a substitute/replacement for Museo Silver Rag.  David Williams who used to be with Museo is now with Innova and of course Museo did have some QA/QC issues last year which were the subject of a thread here on LuLa.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2012, 07:29:44 AM »
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>>............... we were confident our choice of a smooth, fibre-based paper with Titanium dioxide, rather than Barite, would deliver because Titanium dioxide is now at least as good, if not better than, the Barium sulfate used in barite papers. <<

http://www.innovaart.com/en/fibaprint.html

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more

Sure, they can "be confident" because they are the vendor. I have no reason to believe any of it one way or another because it is just a bald statement with no explanation of what differentiating chemical reactions of these components work better with what inks. Perhaps the only way to really know is for someone who knows how to test things systematically to do so. There's nothing like seeing the results of tests with one's own eyeballs and brains to cut through what is often just marketing hyperbole.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2012, 10:21:23 AM »
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Sure, they can "be confident" because they are the vendor. I have no reason to believe any of it one way or another because it is just a bald statement with no explanation of what differentiating chemical reactions of these components work better with what inks. Perhaps the only way to really know is for someone who knows how to test things systematically to do so. There's nothing like seeing the results of tests with one's own eyeballs and brains to cut through what is often just marketing hyperbole.

I agree, the hype about Baryta triggered similar sceptical thoughts in my brain. Aardenburg-Imaging should tell one day.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2012, 10:26:49 AM »
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Ernst, yes Aardenburg will tell on the print permanence aspect, of course important. But the other issue is the image appearance and that is something users can evaluate for themselves by buying and profiling both types of paper and comparing the results with a good test image that reveals fine differences in colour rendition and tonality.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2012, 12:57:05 PM »
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Both Baryta (Barium Sulfate) and Titanium Dioxide are used to improve the 'whiteness' of the paper without resorting to OBAs.  They are by and large non-reactive substances and shouldn't have an impact on print permanency which is more dependent on the coating and the composition of the pigments.  Back in the good old days of wet photography there was a very good Baryta darkroom paper (I believe it was manufactured in France) that had a great black point and good B/W curve.  I used to do a lot of printing on it and found it to be one of the best papers available.  Really performed well with Selenium toning.
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datro
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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2012, 03:49:56 PM »
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Yes the Canson Baryta is so similar as to be almost identical.

But I moved on to the Harmon Baryta and Baryta warmtone a long time ago. Especially for bw the Canson and Ilford had way too much bronzing and gloss differential for me on the new Canon and the HP Z. Even with a post coat of uv spray it was unacceptable. With True Black and White on the Canon the Harmon is just outstanding for monochrome work.

john




+1 for me as well.  I find that the Harman Baryta is much more to my liking than the Canson or Ilford papers.  I'm getting my best B&W work by far on the Harman paper with my Epson 7900.

Dave
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SpiritShooter
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2012, 05:32:53 PM »
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Recently I was commissioned to do a 30 image portfolio for a client. I was looking for a special paper and tested a bunch including the Ilford Gold Fiber Silk and Harman by H. Gloss Baryta and Gloss Baryta Warmtone.

I judged the test prints for several weeks, displayed them so colleagues to give me their thoughts and finally selected the Harman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta Warmtone.  Detail was amazing, sharpness outstanding and the color beautiful. AND, absolutely no bronzing or gloss differential when printed in an Epson 9900 using Imageprint 9.

Right now, I am printing on only two papers....
Epson Hot Press Natural
Harman by H. Gloss Baryta Warmtone.

Mike
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BigBadWolfie
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2012, 08:53:38 AM »
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Is there something wrong with the distribution of Ilford's entire line? B&H is showing discontinued for even the Ilford Pearl.
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neile
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« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2012, 10:46:54 AM »
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I just got an email from the folks at Shades of Paper, and they got their first shipment of Ilford GFS (now "Ilford Prestige Gold Fibre Silk") in today. I asked about availability of 13x19" sheets, and they have 10 sheet boxes, but no 50s.

Before y'all panic, they did say that 50 sheet boxes are in the new lineup and are on order. Other sizes:

8.5x11" 10 Sheet and 50 sheet
11x17" 25 sheet
13x19" 10 Sheet and 50 sheet
17x22" 25 Sheet
17", 24", 36", 44", 50"x39' rolls

Neil
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Neil Enns
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BigBadWolfie
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« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2012, 11:16:43 AM »
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So essentially Ilford is simply changing the name/packaging? Is that all?
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2012, 11:55:07 AM »
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So essentially Ilford is simply changing the name/packaging? Is that all?
I think the price has increased as well since it now has a "premium" name! Wink
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2012, 12:07:06 PM »
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So far we have had no indication of price changes here in Toronto. If they move out of the competitive range with Canson Baryta Photographique they may run into a sales constraint.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
neile
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« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2012, 12:10:42 PM »
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Well, they chopped an inch off the length of the rolls...

Neil
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Neil Enns
Dane Creek Folio Covers. Limited edition Tuscan Sun and Citron covers are now in stock!
Brenda K. Hipsher
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« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2012, 04:10:53 PM »
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Hey Joe,
If your orders are being cancelled its possible that you're ordering under the OLD product codes.  Since the packaging and naming all changed then of course the order codes changed as well.
Just double check that you're using the NEW order codes. I'll be happy to provide that for you if you'll tell me what size and count you're ordering.
Brenda K. Hipsher
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Brenda K. Hipsher
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« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2012, 04:12:13 PM »
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well actually I read it. But I have been away for a few days and have missed out on several posts.  Trying to catch up now!
Brenda K. Hipsher
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Brenda K. Hipsher
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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2012, 04:24:59 PM »
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Checking on the 50 sheet box issue for you and will get back to you.
Brenda K. Hipsher
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Brenda K. Hipsher
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« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2012, 04:27:09 PM »
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Yes I'm seeing 8.5x11 and 13x19 sheets along with 24x50 rolls.  I'll check on this and see what's happening on the 17" product.
Brenda K. Hipsher
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Brenda K. Hipsher
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« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2012, 04:35:59 PM »
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It does appear that ILFORD GALERIE Prestige Gold Fibre Silk 17x22 will be available in 10 sheet and 25 sheet boxes. However, it also appears that purchasing 2 of the 25 sheet boxes will remain at about the same cost as the 50 sheet box previously.  This will give you some added flexibility without causing your per print cost to go up.

As for the durability of the actual boxes themselves I have not yet seen them. This comes from ILFORD directly so please keep us posted on your experience with the new ones.

Brenda K. Hipsher
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