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Author Topic: demise of Gold Fibre Silk?  (Read 15944 times)
GEOFFREYJAMES
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« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2012, 08:13:46 AM »
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I have had no trouble up to now getting 17x22 in the new white boxes of 50.  The boxes themselves are flimsy,  and the paper inside is no longer in a plastic sleeve,  which seems to me an unwise economy. Sounds like the price of the 25  sheet boxes is creeping up,  but then again, nothing ever creeps down pricewise. 
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NaturePhotos
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« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2012, 12:53:19 PM »
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Brenda,

I was recently buying 50 sheet boxes of 17x22 at B&H for $160.  While B&H doesn't yet show your rebadged product, other competitive online sources are showing 25 sheet boxes at $140.  That's nearly double the price.

Marc

It does appear that ILFORD GALERIE Prestige Gold Fibre Silk 17x22 will be available in 10 sheet and 25 sheet boxes. However, it also appears that purchasing 2 of the 25 sheet boxes will remain at about the same cost as the 50 sheet box previously.  This will give you some added flexibility without causing your per print cost to go up.

As for the durability of the actual boxes themselves I have not yet seen them. This comes from ILFORD directly so please keep us posted on your experience with the new ones.

Brenda K. Hipsher
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tsjanik
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« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2012, 01:10:08 PM »
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I saw the same thing on the Innova website.  I believe that titanium dioxide is more expensive than barium sulfate but perhaps it's not terribly relevant given the amounts that are used in the production of inkjet papers.  TiO2 is the compound of choice in the paint and coatings industry where really large volumes are used.  The new Innova paper is being marketed as a substitute/replacement for Museo Silver Rag.  David Williams who used to be with Museo is now with Innova and of course Museo did have some QA/QC issues last year which were the subject of a thread here on LuLa.

Alan:

TiO2 is not as inert as you might expect; it's widely investgated as a photo oxidation catalyst, e.g., http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12967124   
 or http://iopscience.iop.org/1742-6596/182/1/012039/pdf/jpconf9_182_012039.pdf
Not exactly not the activity you'd want for organic dyes exposed to light! I'm sure Innova tested for stability however.

Tom
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tsjanik
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« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2012, 01:18:54 PM »
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Brenda,

I was recently buying 50 sheet boxes of 17x22 at B&H for $160.  While B&H doesn't yet show your rebadged product, other competitive online sources are showing 25 sheet boxes at $140.  That's nearly double the price.

Marc


I see the same increase in price at Atlex, my usual source.  Harmon, Canson and Epson are now less expensive than IGS!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 06:32:12 AM by tsjanik » Logged
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2012, 01:24:06 PM »
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I see the same increse in price at Atlex, my usual source.  Harmon, Canson and Epson are now less expensive than IGS!

We will get a better idea of whether or not this market is competitive by watching what happens to prices of these three other comparators.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2012, 01:48:13 PM »
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Alan:

TiO2 is not as inert as you might expect; it's widely investgated as a photo oxidation catalyst, e.g., http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12967124   
 or http://iopscience.iop.org/1742-6596/182/1/012039/pdf/jpconf9_182_012039.pdf
Not exactly not the activity you'd want for organic dyes exposed to light! I'm sure Innova tested for stability however.

Tom

It is an interesting material in many ways (self cleaning tiles, glass and much more) and has not always been a good whitener for photo carriers (oxidation of PE  barriers in RC papers) but there is now also a wide experience in using the different forms of TiO2 the right way. And encapsulated pigment particles are beyond organic dyes though still related to them.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more





 
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Rand47
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2012, 08:37:49 PM »
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I see the same increse in price at Atlex, my usual source.  Harmon, Canson and Epson are now less expensive than IGS!

IMO, IGS is popular for a single compound reason - it is a nice paper at a decent value.  Take away either of those and sales will most likely plummet like a stone.  Especially given the growing number of excellent alternatives.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2012, 09:01:48 PM »
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I think this is correct, and therefore I think it is incumbent on the company to clarify in public once and for all definitively what is happening to supply, packaging options and prices. Customers can also get fed-up with ambiguity and walk.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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tsjanik
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« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2012, 07:18:36 AM »
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IMO, IGS is popular for a single compound reason - it is a nice paper at a decent value.  Take away either of those and sales will most likely plummet like a stone.  Especially given the growing number of excellent alternatives.

I agree as well; I have a slight preference for the Harmon paper, but not enough to justify the higher cost over the previous pricing of IGS.  If the IGS price increase remains, I'll switch.

A price increase of this size is a marketing mistake.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2012, 09:05:18 AM »
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A price increase of this size is a marketing mistake.

Firstly, we don't know for sure whether prices of similar packaging have increased from the manufacturer across the board. That remains to be seen.

If there were a huge price increase, it will be either a marketing mistake or a marketing coup. That would remain to be determined. I'm not convinced that this paper business is necessarily a fully competitive one. Ostensibly it looks like it is, but we don't know whether there are tie-ups or commonalities at some critical junctures in the chain from production to wholesaling. There could be some interesting surprises under the hood - or maybe not.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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narikin
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« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2012, 11:42:48 AM »
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But I moved on to the Harmon Baryta and Baryta warmtone a long time ago. Especially for bw the Canson and Ilford had way too much bronzing and gloss differential for me on the new Canon and the HP Z. Even with a post coat of uv spray it was unacceptable. With True Black and White on the Canon the Harmon is just outstanding for monochrome work.

+1.
The huge success and awards given to the Harmon paper seems to have spurred Ilford to make new papers in their Prestige Galerie line.
I've yet to see swatches of the new range, but hopefully something like the Smooth Gloss or Smooth Pearl (whatever that is) will compete with Harmon Baryta Gloss.
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John E
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« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2012, 12:15:07 PM »
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After getting an email from Ilford today re: their new Prestige line, a message which also mentioned that the Gold Fibre Silk had been rebranded, I wandered over to B&H. They show 50 sheet packs of Galerie Prestige Gold Fibre Silk 13x19 for $140 USD. I have always bought these 50 packs locally, but I believe this to be approximately the same price as their previously branded product. So, hopefully, much ado about nada.

John
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2012, 12:16:56 PM »
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Everything I hear and see from here in Toronto supports this view.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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NaturePhotos
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« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2012, 12:40:41 PM »
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I've never bought the 13x19 sheets, but B&H prices for 17x22 sheets have gone from $3.20/sheet (50 pack) to $5.60/sheet (25 pack).  They appear to no longer offer the 50 pack, so admittedly it isn't a true apples to apples comparison, but it's what I'll have to pay.  And maybe this is the only significant increase -- I just checked 17" rolls -- paid $93.77 about one year ago, and the price is now $112.50, a much smaller increase.

For anyone that goes off to B&H to search they've (incorrectly) spelled the new product "Fiber" instead of "Fibre" in their titles.

Marc



After getting an email from Ilford today re: their new Prestige line, a message which also mentioned that the Gold Fibre Silk had been rebranded, I wandered over to B&H. They show 50 sheet packs of Galerie Prestige Gold Fibre Silk 13x19 for $140 USD. I have always bought these 50 packs locally, but I believe this to be approximately the same price as their previously branded product. So, hopefully, much ado about nada.

John
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tsjanik
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« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2012, 04:02:35 PM »
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I purchased 17x22 in. IGS from Atlex in February @$200 USD/50 sheet box; current price for 50 sheets is $280 (2 x 25sheet/box @ $139/box).  For me it's a 40% price increase.
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Atlex.com
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« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2012, 10:32:28 AM »
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Unfortunately, when Ilford rebranded their line and changed a few things as far as qty in box per version of paper, they also increased their prices.  Even HP did a price increase twice within a month on most of their supplies...and some of my customers aren't happy about that which I completely understand.

If the GFS is a bit higher than expected, you can always go toward the Canson Baryta Photographique as it is VERY similar to the Ilford.  You can't really tell the difference apart, but when put together, you can see very small differences.  I believe the brightness of one is a little more (which I can't remember which one was a tad brighter).  But still about the same quality.

Chris W
Atlex
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2012, 10:39:09 AM »
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It would be interesting to get a better understanding of what lies behind the price increases, because for papers made in Europe, the value of the Euro has declined substantially relative to the dollar over the past months and is likely to continue doing so at least until financial markets believe the various debt situations there are under control. True, factors such as transportation increase with oil prices, but those have wiggled around a pretty steady average for quite a while now. So again, where's the inflation coming from? Have the key material inputs to the papers become so much more expensive? Perhaps, as there's been a lot of commodity price inflation in general. It would be good to see any large price increases explained by someone who knows.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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DeanChriss
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« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2012, 11:37:31 AM »
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Ilford GFS is (perhaps was) the paper I use most frequently. Its packaging was always more flimsy that some (like Epson) but it was adequate. Now that the paper is placed directly into the box without any plastic bag, the top sheet always has glossy splotches that are caused by "buffing" against the cardboard box. Often the second sheet has a few similar splotches and the third sheet is fine. I think the fact the paper has some room to move around inside the box is the cause, but this never happened with the old packaging. So, aside from being more expensive you now lose a sheet or two from every box. What an improvement!
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« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2012, 11:40:04 AM »
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Have you tried printing the top sheet to see whether it makes things better or worse once ink is applied? I'm still using my older stock so I haven't come across this yet.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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DeanChriss
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« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2012, 11:47:18 AM »
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Have you tried printing the top sheet to see whether it makes things better or worse once ink is applied? I'm still using my older stock so I haven't come across this yet.

I haven't tried this, thinking I'd just be wasting time, but when I get a chance I will.
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