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Author Topic: The next 10,000 post thread?  (Read 7685 times)
BJL
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« on: May 23, 2012, 09:51:07 AM »
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I wonder if the new home page quote
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst".  – Henri Cartier-Bresson
will inspire another 10,000 post thread debating the relevance of extensive practice in general, and that number in particular, to mastering an art or craft like photography.

I hope not ... but then again, maybe I just started it.
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opgr
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2012, 10:47:21 AM »
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Which makes me wonder whether it will take you another 6000 posts or so, to finally say something of relevance here…

 Cool
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Rob C
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 11:49:25 AM »
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Should have stayed with the original quotation. HC-B can certainly not be trusted in the context of the current quotation: in my own experience some of my best ideas were out there right at the start.

Yes, after a little while there's not much left to learn in photography - unless you insist in including all its history and a list of practitioners of high or low fame as being part of 'photography' at which stage it becomes a memory game rather than, with luck, an art. Of course, this presumption of rapid learning is based on film, where you took a lot of care to learn and understand what you were doing if only because of the cost of film; today with digi, despite the contradictory claims so often read here, you can click a million clicks and so what? what's new? what's learned if it costs nothing to make the same mistakes over and over again? So in a contemporary context, perhaps HC-B was right, but since he was speaking of and in other times, he was also mistaken.

Rob C
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John Camp
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2012, 02:19:06 PM »
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Good quote. Meaningless, but eye-catching; even thinking of objections to it is interesting.

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John R Smith
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2012, 02:49:00 PM »
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I don't know where this leaves me. I very much doubt I am ever going to get to 10,000 . . .

 Wink John
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Rob C
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2012, 04:29:33 PM »
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I don't know where this leaves me. I very much doubt I am ever going to get to 10,000 . . . Wink John



That's not bad, for a start!

But then look at it this way: nothing was created equal: it was created individual(ly?) unless we speak of twins. In which case, your 10,000 may be worth another's 1,000,000.

Rob C
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 02:32:13 AM by Rob C » Logged

Ray
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 07:50:17 PM »
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We should not forget that Henri Cartier-Bresson was not interested in the process of photography. He always got someone else to develop his negatives and produce his prints.

One might wonder what he would consider to be a photograph. Is a negative a photograph, or is the finished print the photograph?

In the digital age, with autobracketing capability up to 9 frames, stitching capaibility of more than 9 frames, and fast frame rates up to 12 fps, I'm not sure that the 10,000 figure is relevant, unless one is referring to 10,000 fully processed images that have been printed or are ready for printing.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 08:18:37 PM »
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Does a 400 mp pano count as one or as 25 images?  Wink

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Bernard
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kevk
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 08:42:07 PM »
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For every opinion there is always a counter...

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few." (Shunryu Suzuki Roshi: Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind)
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drevil
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2012, 12:52:56 AM »
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst".
– Henri Cartier-Bresson

make that times ten in the digital times!!!
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dreed
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2012, 03:20:31 AM »
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I wonder if the new home page quote
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst".  – Henri Cartier-Bresson

Lets see, 10,000 photographs at 10fps is 1000 seconds.

That's not even an hour with a camera hooked up to DC power supply and computer.

"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst".
– Henri Cartier-Bresson

make that times ten in the digital times!!!

That's still a small enough number that at 10fps, I'll get it done between breakfast and lunch. Probably need to take the camera in for a shutter servicing at lunch break though.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 03:22:40 AM by dreed » Logged
LesPalenik
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2012, 05:55:12 AM »
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Quote
Does a 400 mp pano count as one or as 25 images?
Bernard, it really depends on the overlap factor. And of course on the orientation.

Conversely, I kept in my collection a single panoramic image spanning an entire 2-meter strip of 35mm film using Seitz Roundshot and a 400mm lens.
Technically, I could split it into 36-40 individual images.
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michael
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2012, 06:55:35 AM »
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While the banter is amusing it masks the more serious intent of the quote.

Mastery of any skill takes practice. When students ask how they can improve their work my no-so-glib answer is, "Take more photographs".

We all do photography for different reasons, but if one wants to really master ones art, whatever it is, it takes constant practice.

Michael
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opgr
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2012, 07:30:13 AM »
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Is photography as an art form more akin to "performance", or to "composition"?

There are clearly more people able to "perform" music, then there are people able to "compose" music. I can imagine that lots of practice allows for better "performance", but I doubt the same holds true for better "composition".

In addition: doesn't it also require a certain amount of (life) experience to be able to judge "when & what" is actually worth capturing? And isn't this really what the quote may be referring at?
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Oscar Rysdyk
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michael
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2012, 09:41:48 AM »
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Unlike with music, in the visual arts composition and performance are intertwined.

In music I'm sure there there performers who can't compose, but I doubt that there are composer who can't play an instrument, though maybe not at master level.

Michael
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BJL
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2012, 09:51:48 AM »
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Does a 400 mp pano count as one or as 25 images?  Wink
Maybe "Your first ten TeraBytes are your worst."

But I am happy to take the real message that continued experience, including review and learning from it, will improve our craft. At least for the vast majority of us who lack mythological, Mozartian levels of innate genius.
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Rob C
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2012, 09:57:37 AM »
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Is photography as an art form more akin to "performance", or to "composition"?

There are clearly more people able to "perform" music, then there are people able to "compose" music. I can imagine that lots of practice allows for better "performance", but I doubt the same holds true for better "composition".

In addition: doesn't it also require a certain amount of (life) experience to be able to judge "when & what" is actually worth capturing? And isn't this really what the quote may be referring at?



You've just illustrated the single greatest factor this snapper faces: why bother? Was a time before turning pro that I saw it all as a pre-destined learning process, with the professional carrot dangling as motivator in the far(?) distance. Then, once in the business, business itself and its momentum and opportunities for lifestyle that that brought carried me along from crest to crest, or from the peak of one depression to the peak of the next (always hard to judge at the time).

Now, with all that but memory, why make images anymore?

It’s very easy to imagine that, once into photography, it will provide its own reward and, thus, motivation. It doesn’t necessarily do anything of the kind. I find that trying to enthuse myself into shooting stuff remote from pro days is both difficult and not really particularly rewarding of itself. I sometimes wonder if it’s an inevitable reaction to growing older or whether the lack of financial reward somehow removes its validity, its payoff, as it were, though certainly I don’t mean that in monetary terms alone. Either way, there appears little reason to justify the effort both in the mythical field as on the all too real typist chair at the friggin’ computer.

I see this as perhaps being somewhat wider-spread than realised: could a lack of real motivation for image-making per se be the reason so many ‘photographers’ spend hours on pixel-peeping, on camera talk, on printers/inks  and Photoshop or whatever columns? Are the associated games of greater real reward (or interest) than what actually goes into the front of the lens?

Speaking of which, I think that today brought on a unique change of mind regarding my general view on landscape. For this I must thank Chuck K. whose latest black/white work is on show somewhere here on LuLa this morning. Previous to those images, and though I am already familiar with his website, I felt that landscape was essentially not a lot more (at best) than an exercise in editing what God had already created. Now, I’m no longer quite so sure of my ground (no pun etc.). The reason for this is as follows: colour landscape seems to be an exercise in shooting what’s there and turning that into as accurate as possible renditions of what was seen, with every little detail as crisp as can be, the more colour or/and detail able to be reproduced the better (Zone etc.). However, Chuck’s current crop is different. I hope he takes no offence, but the images, to me, are of nothing remarkably interesting in itself, but boy, what that has been turned into is something very much else! I wonder if it would have worked in colour, but in black and white there is no other fair word to use: creative. Never thought I’d see a time I would honestly claim that for landscape, but I won’t deny what I saw today.

It would be nice to feel similarly inspired to go out there and do some of the same… but. But, that’s somebody else’s bag, and what’s the point of faking it (if one could) for one’s own?

;-(

Rob C
  
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 01:36:34 PM by Rob C » Logged

dturina
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2012, 10:38:35 AM »
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My first 500 photos were all adventure and discovery. Today, it's mostly routine. So, what is it that makes photography "good"?
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Danijel
dreed
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2012, 10:41:57 AM »
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Mastery of any skill takes practice. When students ask how they can improve their work my no-so-glib answer is, "Take more photographs".

We all do photography for different reasons, but if one wants to really master ones art, whatever it is, it takes constant practice.

But you can't do that in a vacuum.

I think there's something that needs to be added here, because practice alone is not sufficient.

I believe that a necessary component for advancement is critique of one's work.

That is, if nobody tells you what you're doing wrong (or what you could do better) then how do you know what to improve?
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michael
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2012, 11:07:45 AM »
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But you can't do that in a vacuum.

I think there's something that needs to be added here, because practice alone is not sufficient.

I believe that a necessary component for advancement is critique of one's work.

That is, if nobody tells you what you're doing wrong (or what you could do better) then how do you know what to improve?

That's why people attend seminars, take workshops, and do 1-on-1 mentoring sessions with photographers whose work they admire. That's why they also join camera clubs.

Michael
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