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Author Topic: Would you consider a d800 if you don't print larger than 16x20?  (Read 10286 times)
HSakols
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« on: June 04, 2012, 10:00:44 AM »
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I'm just curious if anyone would consider a d800 if they rarely print past 16x20?  Are there other benefits to the sensor such as better dynamic range, color etc.. I'm coming from a d300. 
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Derry
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 11:34:39 AM »
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YES

just retired my D300 when the 800E arrived Friday,, all I can say is WOW,,

I shoot all the grandkids sports (soccer, volleyball, basketball & track) and my hobby of radio controlled one meter sailboats,, many of my boat photos need a fair crop as ya cannot walk out on that water to get closer and the 12 MP D300 ran out of pixels pretty quick,, was blown away at the detail I still had left on cropped photos from yesterdays sail,,

using a 70-200 VR1 the focus is almost instant and the 3D tracking I would rate excellent for the one day of boat coverage I just shot,, as others have said the DR is way above the D300,, can pull those shadows up and see "clearly" items the 300 would never have offered,, colors seem more vibrant but the amount of detail you can see most likely assist,,

I have large hands and the front grip on the 800 is a tad smaller,, will be buying the bottom grip as I had one on the D300 and it never came off,,

I shoot raw all the time and the files sizes will surprise you but hey it is a 36.3 MP camera,, knowing I had ordered the 800E the beginning of February I started looking for a new tower as the old one was a tad over three years and one of my daughters was bugging me about upgrading as the kids always pick up my old gear,,

new tower is i7 processor with one gig video board and 16 gig ram,, it eats through the files very quick on Lightroom 4.1 or Nikon NX2,,

I'm anxious to have a few large posters up to 16X20 printed and can't imagine the quality they will be,,

the D300 supported me very well for several years but I always said if Nikon ever comes out with a high MP camera, no AA filter and a decent price they would get my check,, well they received the check and so far the honeymoon is great,,

Derry

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Rob C
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 12:30:46 PM »
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the D300 supported me very well for several years but I always said if Nikon ever comes out with a high MP camera, no AA filter and a decent price they would get my check,, well they received the check and so far the honeymoon is great,,

Derry




I suspect you'd have felt the same if you'd got yourself a D700 straight after the D300.

That's not to knock or devalue the D800/E - it's just to say that differences in sensors can certainly be felt quite soon, as can the visual lens differences when using the full 35mm format instead of the cropped. Put these two factors together, and you're motoring!

However, were the D700 and the D800 around together when I bought my D700, I'd certainly have opted for the D800. Not sure about the E, though; kind of feel that's more a subconscious wish for an M-style body system...

Rob C
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 01:29:41 PM »
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Many benefits even if the maximum print size is 16x24. ISo performance above 1600;  the ability to crop without losing definition (depends on how much you crop of course); greater dynamic range; Better Live view functionality; two media slots (SD and CF), etc.
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Ellis Vener
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Moreno Polloni
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 03:42:26 PM »
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I'm just curious if anyone would consider a d800 if they rarely print past 16x20?  Are there other benefits to the sensor such as better dynamic range, color etc.. I'm coming from a d300. 

I'd consider a D800 even if the resolution was the same as the D300. Other than the improved mechanical aspect of the new body (better focusing, improved live view, brighter finder, etc.), IMO the biggest differences are the D800's improved colour quality and dynamic range. In comparison to the D300 you'll notice an improvement in any sized print.
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 07:30:30 PM »
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Frankly, I pre-ordered the D800E and then cancelled it. The darn thing may never show up, and I think my D700 is pretty good the way it is. Way, way too much hype over this new body. I'm getting good output from my D700 and Zeiss prime lenses and since I don't print over 17" wide, what's the deal? The general public which is arguably none the wiser will buy what appeals, NOT megapixels.
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Pingang
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 07:19:10 AM »
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I suppose D800E also qualified for this answer and of course I will, simply because I have a lot of pixels to retouch regardless the output size I need, it gives me more transitional retouch rooms. And a lot more room for creative crop. There are many works that when I finished shoot, the editor continue to work on final about that may crop the images suitable for certain use.

Pingang
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Eric Brody
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 09:47:49 PM »
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I have a D800E, I came from a D700. I have an Epson 3800 and have not yet printed larger than 13x20. But these prints are impressive. Maybe I bought a new, expensive toy and want to justify it, but I just love the quality of the prints from the D800E. It is the camera I have dreamed of for years, high megapixels to produce high resolution, with the ability to use Nikon's best lenses to produce highly detailed prints with excellent tonality. I feel a bit sorry for Phase One, Hasselblad, Leica, and Leaf. Their "low end" backs of around 40MP are likely to go begging at the exorbitant prices they are asking. It's like the folks who argued aggressively for tubes when it was patently obvious to all except fanatics that transistors were cheaper... and better. In blind listening tests, they never could consistently tell the difference. They still sell tube amps.

Some folks say there's a certain "something" about MFDB images that a lowly D800 cannot achieve. There's one word for this, bull...oney. It's a free country, if you want to spend $12,000 for a camera that is harder to use, has fewer lenses available, and has no functional live view, go ahead. For that, you can buy a D800(E), a bunch of lenses, and a nice photo trip. I've made my choice and I am pretty happy.
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 06:10:25 AM »
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[quote author=brodyer link=topic=67634.msg535487#msg535487 date=1338950869
Some folks say there's a certain "something" about MFDB images that a lowly D800 cannot achieve. There's one word for this, bull...oney. It's a free country, if you want to spend $12,000 for a camera that is harder to use, has fewer lenses available, and has no functional live view, go ahead. For that, you can buy a D800(E), a bunch of lenses, and a nice photo trip. I've made my choice and I am pretty happy.
[/quote]

There are some folks I meet who say that their compact camera can take such great pictures they cannot understand why anyone would want to buy and lug around a DSLR and lenses.  I'm assuming you have experience with a MFDB?  It's great that you have made your choice and are happy with it - but just perhaps the owners of MF kits have a different set of parameters to yourself.  They're just cameras and it's what you do with them that counts.

Jim
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LGeb
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 10:25:51 AM »
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I'm just curious if anyone would consider a d800 if they rarely print past 16x20?  Are there other benefits to the sensor such as better dynamic range, color etc.. I'm coming from a d300. 

Given that I can see a difference in the prints between 240ppi and 300ppi the D800 is a good way to get to the quality of image I want in a 16x20 print. That's why I bought the D800E. It looks great at 16x24 and very good at 20x30.
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Scott O.
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 10:11:27 PM »
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Many benefits even if the maximum print size is 16x24. ISo performance above 1600;  the ability to crop without losing definition (depends on how much you crop of course); greater dynamic range; Better Live view functionality; two media slots (SD and CF), etc.

+1  And IF you get that once in a lifetime shot, you CAN print it large.  Very large!
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bjanes
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 10:38:40 AM »
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I'm just curious if anyone would consider a d800 if they rarely print past 16x20?  Are there other benefits to the sensor such as better dynamic range, color etc.. I'm coming from a d300. 

The resolution of the D800 is 7424 x 4924 pixels. If you are using an Epson printer and printing at 360 ppi, that would yield a 20.6 x 13.7 inch print. However tests by Jeff Schewe indicate that some improvement in image quality is obtained by printing at 720 ppi. This would be 10.3 x 6.8 inches at 720 ppi. Roger Clark has found that printing at 600 ppi shows an advantage with his HP printer. DigLloyd (pay site) states that downsampling of the 36 MP image of the D800 eliminates stair-casing and other digital artifacts and this is an advantage even when one is not printing at the larger sizes. Since my D800 is still on backorder, I have no personal experience, but the findings of these experts leads me to conclude that the D800 would be advantageous for my work. I have the Epson 3880 and 17 x 22 inches is the largest I can print.

If your standards are very high, the extra resolution can be advantageous even at print sizes under 16x20. Of course it depends on how much high frequency data is in the image.

Regards,

Bill
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2012, 07:12:50 PM »
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The resolution of the D800 is 7424 x 4924 pixels. If you are using an Epson printer and printing at 360 ppi, that would yield a 20.6 x 13.7 inch print. However tests by Jeff Schewe indicate that some improvement in image quality is obtained by printing at 720 ppi. This would be 10.3 x 6.8 inches at 720 ppi.

Bill, I think if you check, you will find that what you have typed is not quite correct.

Jeff was talking about resolution at a given print size. If the resolution is less than 360 then UPRES to 360. If the resolution is greater than 360 then UPRES to 720.

He was not referring to shrinking the print size to match resolutions of either 360 or 720.
(BTW: this information is correct for EPSON printers, with Canon and HP one would UPRES to 300 and 600 respectively.)

Regards

Tony Jay
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bjanes
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2012, 07:55:44 PM »
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Bill, I think if you check, you will find that what you have typed is not quite correct.

Jeff was talking about resolution at a given print size. If the resolution is less than 360 then UPRES to 360. If the resolution is greater than 360 then UPRES to 720.

He was not referring to shrinking the print size to match resolutions of either 360 or 720.
(BTW: this information is correct for EPSON printers, with Canon and HP one would UPRES to 300 and 600 respectively.)


Tony,

That is my understanding of Jeff's statements too. The point I was trying to make that the findings of both Jeff and Roger Clark lead me to infer that image quality improves up to 720 or 600 ppi respectively with these printers. Jeff now recommends printing at the native resolution of the printer, which is either 360 or 720 for the Epsons. If the native resolution of your image is greater than 720 it would make sense to downsample your image using a method that does not introduce aliasing. One probably should not assume that the printer driver uses such a method.

Regards,

Bill
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Robcat
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 08:05:33 PM »
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Quote
Would you consider a d800 if you don't print larger than 16x20?
Well, I've had my d800 for about a month, having moved up from Canon 5d (original, not the mkii). One of the first things I did was set up some flowers in my studio and shoot some comparisons. Obviously different lenses but let's not get nuts here. At 16 x 20 you have to put prints side by side in good light and stare real hard to see a difference. By 20 x 30 it's obvious. So if you really do very few prints at 16 x 20 it is not going to be a huge difference. That being said, I print larger and I love the d800. Other features mentioned by other posters (dynamic range, ergonomics, screen, video) are big pluses but frankly I wouldn't have switched systems if I didn't need to print big.
Rob P
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2012, 05:53:29 AM »
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Thanks for the clarification Bill - I wasn't certain from your original post.

I am not sure what the go would be for printing should the native resolution be greater than 720 or 600 PPI.
Perhaps downsizing would then be appropriate but I would not want to unless the evidence was overwhelming.
I think this would be a question for Jeff.

Regards

Tony Jay
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 06:04:12 AM by Tony Jay » Logged
HSakols
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2012, 10:51:40 AM »
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Thanks for sharing all of your perspectives. I would like to be able to extract more details from distant scenes or landscapes that have lots of vegetation.  I find I get quite excellent details from my closeups. 
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Johnphoto
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2012, 12:52:00 PM »
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I have both cameras and I must say that I regret buying the D800. The D800E is in another league. Even at A3 size prints you can see the difference. There are also significant edge effects between bright and dark in high contrast areas with the D800. I have not yet after 2 months seen any problems with moiré with the D800E.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 12:53:31 PM by Johnphoto » Logged
Ellis Vener
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2012, 12:54:08 PM »
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...I have not yet after 2 months seen any problems with moiré with the D800E.
What type of subjects?
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Ellis Vener
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Johnphoto
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2012, 01:17:20 PM »
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Street photography, portraits and landscapes.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:24:28 PM by Johnphoto » Logged
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