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Author Topic: Please don't laugh  (Read 8936 times)
photo570
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« on: June 13, 2012, 03:09:38 AM »
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I have a few questions that may seem so basic as to be absurd. But here goes.

A little BG. I know nothing about video. Zero.

I had a client ask if I could shoot some video at the same time as doing some stills, so of-course I said yes, as you do.

Now I have a 5DII, a studio and more Macs than you can poke a stick at, but I usually shoot still life on a Leaf digital back, so I have a workflow that is great for that, but I don't know what to do for video, and yes I have read several books in the last few days, which were a great help, BUT. They all seem to gloss over the really basic points that I assume they think are obviouse, so I thought I would just ask, and see what response I got.

I am used to shooting tethered with the Leaf and reviewing on a monitor as you shoot. How do you do this with video, I realize you can hook up an external monitor to the HDMI port and use that as a larger version of the LCD on the back of the camera. It will show what the camera is recording, as it is doing so, but how do you review what you have shot previously, no one seems to talk about that, not in the manual or any book I have seen yet. I just know the client is going to say, "can we look at that last clip".

Can you shoot straight to computer with a 5dII? or do you have to record to card, then ingest to a NLE like Premier or Final Cut to review?

Sorry for being daft, thanks in advance of the many more questions I am sure I will have.

Kind regards,
Jason Berge.
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Jason Berge
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 07:54:54 AM »
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This may help.

You record to internal card; playback from the 5dii via HDMI cable. If you have the budget, hire a digital tech to look after all the file ingest and NLE stuff - the learning curve can be steep and the 'set' is not the place to learn ))
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Christopher Sanderson
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 10:28:45 AM »
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Ha ha ha Smiley

Playback off the camera onto a monitor is easiest.

Im laughing because video is a steep wall!

A studio environment can show imperfections - camera judder etc - not to mention no more clone tool!

Whats the shoot?
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 02:25:08 PM »
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It's also interesting that your monitor(s) have an HDMI OUT also and not just an IN. The camera monitor is conected to the camera in the input via the rig but if you got an output too, you can conect a cascade of monitors in different locations that are monitoring in real time what the camera is shooting. So clients or director can see what's recorded live far away from the shooting zone.
You'd need an assistant to take care of the cable while you shoot (because you move), or fixing it behind your shoulder with gaffer tape and make sure nobody is going to step.
a 20m cable is about 100euros.

Also and maybe the most important, if you know nothing about video, I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) that you plan to work within a still configuration' style gear/workflow wich are logicaly the equipment you are familiar with. (tripods, workflows style etc...)
If so, I suggest you reconsider to accept the offer if you're not ready because it might end into a desaster and you could end ridiculized in front of the client.
IMO, if you really start from zero, you should probably train yourself (and the crew!) for awhile, shooting and post-producing fake or gifted projects but in real conditions before accepting payed assignements otherwise it could be counter-productive more than an oportunity, but I'm not the one to judge that. As Chris said, the (payed) set isn't the place to learn, but I'd ad that the fake set is the best place to learn.
Sometimes it's also good to jump at our own risks, but with calculation.






« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 02:56:18 PM by fredjeang » Logged
photo570
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 04:12:33 PM »
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Thanks guys,

I have read the manual again, and found playback. Duh.

I will be doing several tests before the "actual shoot". It is a static shot on white background, think moving lookbook, like this http://www.mrporter.com/product/179688

Thanks again,
Jason.
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Jason Berge
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 05:53:35 PM »
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That should be do able - dont move or touch the camera at all while rolling, I hope youve got a solid concrete floor or the tripod may bounce

Im not sure how you are going to get clean white - which is easy in stills

You are going to need to be super well lit/clean or learn keying/greenscreen - which apparently likes cameras with higher res than the 5d

My first effort at a slightly more complex version - you will see lots of issues but I got away with it (maybe) you can see my floor while OK for cutout stills is not really clean enough!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vNRciTcCb4&list=UUlLZPCFdMOuPSzww557x7eg&index=2&feature=plcp

S
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 05:57:01 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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photo570
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 06:05:12 PM »
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Hi Morgan,

Yes concrete floor, using a Cambo UST camera stand.

Cheers,
Jason.
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Jason Berge
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fredjeang
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 07:21:58 PM »
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Also,
Don't know if you are used to continuous lightning, but you'd need way more power than in strobe config to acheive an equivalent lightning.
You'd also need space between the talents and the wall-background to "burn" it but not the talents-objects. (or height to lite from the top)

Take specially care that everyone on set is wearing shoe-protectors because it's way more painfull to erase dirt traces. Clone tools exist but it's no stills.

If it's not possible to lite the background uniformaly, the post-prod will recuperate the situation.
But then, you really need, when it comes to NLEs, to make sure that you have at least the capability to mask with beziers curves and track. Without going to do rotoscoping on Nuke,
no, but being able to color correct footage without those 2 elements (bezier+tracking) is prety much like having a car without the wheels.
You may want to look at Apple Color or DaVinci resolve lite (free).
Avid got those tools within the editor itself. There is a Mac version.

In the case mentionned (the video), it will be easy to recuperate a wall that wasn't lited idealy, but you'd need the apropriate tools, like chrominance etc...to isolate color-luminance-satu range in question and correct.
Without having to use a blue or green screen. (specialy with a 8 bits camera like the 5D2, greenscreens are painfull)
In fashion it's not appropriate unless the green screen is done by super pros and the post also, otherwise it'll be noticiable on the product itself and the post could become complicated (painting) and not for beginers range.
But if you'd had a white background with a white object, then you'd need to mask the object and track it.

When you shoot the 5D2, you'll need to convert the footage to a suitable format for editing/grading. I think that you'll be fine converting to Prores 4.2.2.
Here is a very good converter: http://rarevision.com/5dtorgb/
the idea is that you need to avoid like the plague the .264 or avchd formats.

The sensor cleaning of the camera is really important. No mess with that. Make sure your sensor is clean before each group of takes or at least one time at the beginning of the shooting day.

I forgot: if it's gona be fashion, the 5D2 is very prone to moiré. A GH2 is almost moiré-free.
Then you have to be carefull with the 8 bits devices when it comes to gradations, for ex a wall from white to greys. It posterizes easily and look frankly super crap. Not all 8bits cameras react the same, some models are more sensitive than others.
And of course if you're in Europe your shutter speed will be 1/50 yes or yes, otherwise 1/60.

Best luck.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 08:22:20 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 02:20:07 PM »
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When you have got the model on white sorted here is your next exercise.. https://vimeo.com/43455552 Smiley
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Bern Caughey
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 10:54:36 AM »
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I assume your not doing the post so there's no need to open the files in a NLE. For playback you could just use QuickTime, VLC, or, Movist, & avoid hiring a DIT.

Use the 5D's Neutral profile, & turn sharpening, saturation, & contrast, to their lowest setting.

If your subject fits better into a vertical frame, such as full length shots of models on white, consider shooting vertically so you'll have more resolution. It will help on set if you can rotate your computer monitor too. As mentioned moire will be a concern, so check playback carefully on a large monitor. Better yet, rent a different camera. Even the 5D3 would be a much better choice.

Unless you've shot green screen before I suggest you stick with white. Even with experience green screen is a pain, & icky to stare at all day.

Lastly consider hiring a DP instead of going it alone. You can likely get a deal, & the DP may own lots of the tools you'll want, plus the knowledge to use them well.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 11:34:18 AM by Bern Caughey » Logged
photo570
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 04:10:18 PM »
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Good one Morgan, Grin. Baby steps I think at this stage.

I will probably only be selecting and trimming clips to send to the web developer. This is a really small job and so I am just getting my toes wet at the moment. I am installing a new kitchen in the studio today, and shooting tomorrow and the next day for stills. But I will do more testing before the actual shoot. I think I have sorted out a workflow shooting tethered with EOS Utility controlling the camera, and then using Image Browser to review clips on the iMac, so hopefully I won't have to buy or rent anything to do this shoot, which itself is really a test, and the client understands this. I have told them I have never shot video before but will "give it a crack" as they say.

Thanks for all the help guys. If it goes well I am sure I will be asking a lot more questions.

Cheers,
Jason.

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Jason Berge
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 12:42:39 PM »
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You will definitely need to learn a lot about video for future projects. At least HDSLR video, since that will probably the easiest of the harder transitions for you.

Here is a good place to start: 13 Products You Need to Add HD Video to Your Business - PDN May 2012 Article

I hope this helps.
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