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Author Topic: DEAD IQ160  (Read 15451 times)
Kumar
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2012, 11:32:33 PM »
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Reading this and other forums, I have been under the impression that the dealer is the first point of contact for Phase One users. Some dealers here have stated that they are available 24/7 for customers, who have their cellphone numbers. AFAIK, there has never been a Phase One rep active on the forum. David Grover who did a great job for Hasselblad earlier bats for Phase One now, but he's in charge of software. David helped to solve a problem with an Imacon back - without getting a dealer into the picture.

Perhaps the dealer should have taken more responsibility? I don't know the terms of the VA warranty, so if someone could clarify?

David, you're in LA, aren't you? Is that very far from "civilization"? Smiley Or were you shooting in the wilderness?

Kumar
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 11:39:22 PM by Kumar » Logged

david.westphal
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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2012, 12:08:39 AM »
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Read the fine print...does Phase One offer 24/7? No...if your expectations are that they do, you didn't read the fine print or you have totally unreasonable expectations.

And having been in the biz for about 30 years, I gotta tell you that if you are working weekends and off hours, you either do the professional thing and work with backups and any/everything you need to do the production or not. The OP apparently didn't read the fine print in the value added warrantee and was shocked that a company closes on weekends. I find that unprofessional on the part of the photographer and he's trying to off load the blame to somebody else...sorry, but if you are gonna do a shoot for a client you have to anticipate production problems and have a system in place to deal with it.

Bitching about Phase One not being open on Sundays is silly.  Complaining that Phase couldn't get a replacement back by 5AM Tues is silly. Complaining that he got a P65+ instead of the IQ 160 is legit.

Photographers working weekends and off hours is their choice. Just because THEY do it doesn't mean the rest of the world will (and in fact as the OP has now found out, it doesn't).

Still don't get it.  But that's cool.  We are entitled to our own opinions. 

I'm not off loading the blame on phase.  If you read my posts, I'm not complaining that I didn't get the replacement back on Sunday.  I did have a backup.  Whatever. 

David
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david.westphal
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2012, 12:11:22 AM »
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On a Sunday? Really?

I think the fact that Phase got "something" in his hands Tues (ok, not early enough for his call time) to be pretty good...and I don't disagree that the further away you are from "civilization" you are, the less likely you will have a replacement back the next day. Which the OP should have known...

I was working downtown Los Angeles.  Not sure how far away from civilization that was. 

BTW, I have a name.  I won't be offended if you refer to me by my name as opposed to OP.  It's David...  To get something in my hands by Tuesday is really only doing the bare minimum to satisfy the terms of the value added.  So nothing special there.
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Gel
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« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 01:43:36 AM »
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David,
Any serious shoot I've ever done I've carried a backup.

Todays DSLR's are really closing in on MF. The IQ from a 5D3 for example sits right on top of a P25. (I have both) and the 1DX is simply astonishing (field tested one last week).

I haven't tried the D800 but that's no doubt great too if you need resolution. (But Canon glass is better).

It's no IQ back, but it's a get me there solution which works. If we're going to put ourselve in tight spots and demanding situations we need to also be in a place to rule out dealer support.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 03:05:53 AM by Gel » Logged

Chris Giles Photography
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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2012, 03:35:02 AM »
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Hi Gel,
 
(But Canon glass is better).

Interesting comment. I suggest you try a Nikon D800e with Nikons new G lenses. Love to know your thoughts after that little test.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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ziocan
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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2012, 06:55:24 AM »
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Commercial shooters work weekends and late hours, often in strange places.   I used to have backs and cameras shit out on me all the time back in the P25/Aptus 22 days. I would switch to the Canon at that point and wait for some dude from Fotocare to show up with a replacement. I think the point is that Value Added may not Add as much Value to a pro's back if s/he works on location in the wilds. Works great in NYC and I'm sure even on a weekend Fotocare or DT would get you a back that day. But I was always suspicious of the value the Value Added warranty provided, just from my experience with the time frames required by FedEx and UPS.

What eventually happened is that when I sent in th deliverables the editorial clients didn't see a difference between the MF and FF frames, which made me question why I was using a slow $20k back that ate batteries and had issues talking to the camera when the Canons worked flawlessly.
Same here!
For me, Phase and all the network of dealers, which is only "Added Cost", can switch to banana business any time they want.
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ziocan
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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2012, 06:57:51 AM »
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(But Canon glass is better).
There is not better glass. period.
Especially Canon.....
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julienlanoo
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2012, 08:22:54 AM »
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Try shooting some clothing, mesh, fences, brick walls from far away in wide angle wit a D800e, it's still a small format..

Remarkable, identically the same discussion was held 25 years ago, when discussing, : Why the hell would you need a hasselblad if a Leica is superb ? .. or why the hell use 4x5 inch if it's so expensive and Leica has great quality..
It was bullshit then it's bullshit now...
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julienlanoo
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« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2012, 08:28:02 AM »
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There is not better glass. period.
Especially Canon.....

No better glass than canon ?  Do you know about a brand called: Rodenstock ?  or Shneider ?  i might even direct you to Leitz.. ?
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2012, 08:34:12 AM »
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No better glass than canon ?  Do you know about a brand called: Rodenstock ?  or Shneider ?  i might even direct you to Leitz.. ?


Got the Schneider 80mm LS lens. To be 100% honest, I'd take a Canon 50L any day. The Schneider has clinical sharpness but zero character whatsoever and the bokeh isn't that good either.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 08:36:35 AM by Ben Rubinstein » Logged

julienlanoo
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« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2012, 08:40:58 AM »
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Got the Schneider 80mm LS lens. To be 100% honest, I'd take a Canon 50L any day. Clinical sharpness but zero character whatsoever.

Saying the " canons " are the best glass is a bit a dangerous point, as the 16-35's are shit, the 28 300 is shit, ( nikon has better) , Compared to the Leica Elmarit S 50 is way better than the canon, ... The shneider 80 mm on phase one is way better than the 80 mm than the mamiya 80mm and comparable tot the hassy 80mm..

But none of the above can reach the quality you get with Rodenstock Digarons W 's..

So the "best" that's " relative " ...
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julienlanoo
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2012, 08:43:27 AM »
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If you base a Definition on 1 comparisation, and 1 test it's never a good definition..

Saying the " canons " are the best glass is a bit a dangerous point, as the 16-35's are shit, the 28 300 is shit, ( nikon has better) , Compared to the Leica Elmarit S 50 is way better than the canon, ... The shneider 80 mm on phase one is way better than the 80 mm than the mamiya 80mm and comparable tot the hassy 80mm..

But none of the above can reach the quality you get with Rodenstock Digarons W 's..

So the "best" that's " relative " ...
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2012, 09:25:54 AM »
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It was a rather silly comment from that poster however I'd say that any global comeback not specifying usage and needs it just as mistaken. If your criteria is just clinical sharpness and contrast then perhaps it would be possible to specify a certain brand. If usability, rendition and pleasing character are however important (i.e. to everyone but landscape photographers using tech cameras) then the names thrown out here are going to lose and badly.

No brand overall (there are about 70 different lenses in each of the canon or nikon brands) is going to be better. Neither is any brand the right to claim overall superiority based on a single criteria, sharpness.

I'd disagree with you on the Canon 16-35L for example but then I use it for wedding photography at f2.8 and couldn't care less about the corners. See what I mean? The Leica is better than the canon unless of course you want to put it on an SLR or shoot at wider than f2.

There is no brand that is best, only specific lenses which are best for a persons highly personal needs and usage.


Pentax Super 50mm f1.4 circa 1969 (or so) shot wide open. The Leica would not have been able to fulfill my needs for this shot (the summilux pre-asph could but then the camera couldn't do the necessary high iso), neither the Schneider 80mm LS, nor any of the tech camera super over sharp lenses. 'Best' is too subjective to be used in an argument period IMO.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 09:32:59 AM by Ben Rubinstein » Logged

phaseoneus
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« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2012, 10:10:10 AM »
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Dear David and Photographers friends,

I rarely go on these forums to post, but I read them very carefully to stay alert, and updated on the industry feedback from users of our equipment.
This feedback is used by myself to optimize my own US setup, but also reported directly into R/D and Global support in Denmark where we have our HQ.

When I see negative feedback in shape of form that potentially hurts the reputation of Phase One, normally I contact the shooter directly and talk to him.
In this case since so  many shooters are now involved and putting in comments, I thought Id better have the reply here in the open.

I have Area Sales Managers + a number of tech supporters strategically placed throughout the US, who all have lots of equipment to share, and I know they use it not only for sales purposes but for emergencies like the one you just had. - We try out best to meet any demand and on-site help.

Phase One US is based on a highly skilled distribution setup with multiple dealers/resellers that take care of shooters daily, most of them even on weekends.
The specific case we (Phase One US) only heard about Monday morning at 10.43, immediately (within 40 minutes) we replied that a loaner could go out in shape and form of a P65+ since it was urgent, and this was okay by the contact at the reseller we communicated with.
This loaner was shipped that same morning and arrived the very next day, which under the circumstances I believe is within reason, I read from your comments that you feel so too.

To your comments on P65+ replacing an IQ, I do agree that ideally IQ should be replaced with an IQ and we are getting to that.
Currently I am replacing all P+ service units with IQ units, and we actually have multiple in our service stock here at our US office in Melville.

I have started with replacing P+ units on our own Phase One platform, but the platform you are currently shooting on, will also be supported by IQ service units moving forward.

In short, I am sorry that you had a Phase One product go down at such a crucial time, but I think that Phase One under the circumstances that we worked within did everything we could. - I hope after reading my reply you will agree.

My Area Sales Manager in LA is Brent Siebenaler - you can reach him through your local dealer, and you can always call the me at the US office in Melville.

I wish you and everybody reading this a great day, and happy shooting.

Best regards,

Claus Pedersen
President - Phase One US

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bcooter
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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2012, 02:03:44 PM »
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Jeff,

It's been a while since you've been in the twenty bid world of commercial imaging, but it's a lot different today than before.

I can give you dozens of scenarios where it's normal to work on a weekend and it usually comes down to money.  You have the crew and talent , the pre production is in place, most of us travel and a large crew on the road is burning cash every day.

Also everyone works from a bottom line.  I haven't heard the term day rate or creative fee in years and if you do it really doesn't mean much because  client's don't care if you sleep in a weekend or keep working, because they are only gonna pay what they are gonna pay.  It's not unusual in production for some crew member (usually me)  to ask what day ii is and they don't mean the date, they mean is it Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

Now in regards to David, I understand his side, but I don't know how Phase can do anything about getting a backup in a timely manner that works for a compressed schedule project,  unless your shooting across the street for a well stocked dealer.

As you said, that's why everyone has backups, though as you know having $30,000, $20,000, or $60,000 backups seems like a waste or money . . . until you really need them.

That's one of the reason just about everyone I know has not only thrown a dslr in their bag but a lot have just moved to 35mm, superior image quality or not, because every added case of cameras can translate to thousands in baggage overage if your moving country to country and of course every extra system brings it's own unique workflow, battery chargers, lens sets, etc.

So I guess I'm saying I don't see this as a Phase One fault, I just see it as the way the industry's business model has changed.

IMO

BC

P.S.  I will admit I'm somewhat envious of people that can work 8 to 5.  This Thursday night I was in the process of constructing a creative treatment for a project and  thought it was about 2 am until I noticed the room was getting brighter and brighter as the sun was coming up.

I think I need a vacation.


« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 02:14:28 PM by bcooter » Logged
LenR
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2012, 04:15:07 PM »
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Sh_t happens.

Phase came thru fine.

Get a D800 JIC

Have a nice weekend:)
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Schewe
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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2012, 04:55:36 PM »
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It's been a while since you've been in the twenty bid world of commercial imaging, but it's a lot different today than before.

Which is why I don't put up with that crap any more :~) But I remember it...it wasn't really fun then and is prolly less fun now (with less money).

But...the point I was trying to make is that if you're gonna do it, you should be prepared to do it. At least now David knows...
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david.westphal
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2012, 05:07:12 PM »
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Dear David and Photographers friends,

I rarely go on these forums to post, but I read them very carefully to stay alert, and updated on the industry feedback from users of our equipment.
This feedback is used by myself to optimize my own US setup, but also reported directly into R/D and Global support in Denmark where we have our HQ.

When I see negative feedback in shape of form that potentially hurts the reputation of Phase One, normally I contact the shooter directly and talk to him.
In this case since so  many shooters are now involved and putting in comments, I thought Id better have the reply here in the open.

I have Area Sales Managers + a number of tech supporters strategically placed throughout the US, who all have lots of equipment to share, and I know they use it not only for sales purposes but for emergencies like the one you just had. - We try out best to meet any demand and on-site help.

Phase One US is based on a highly skilled distribution setup with multiple dealers/resellers that take care of shooters daily, most of them even on weekends.
The specific case we (Phase One US) only heard about Monday morning at 10.43, immediately (within 40 minutes) we replied that a loaner could go out in shape and form of a P65+ since it was urgent, and this was okay by the contact at the reseller we communicated with.
This loaner was shipped that same morning and arrived the very next day, which under the circumstances I believe is within reason, I read from your comments that you feel so too.

To your comments on P65+ replacing an IQ, I do agree that ideally IQ should be replaced with an IQ and we are getting to that.
Currently I am replacing all P+ service units with IQ units, and we actually have multiple in our service stock here at our US office in Melville.

I have started with replacing P+ units on our own Phase One platform, but the platform you are currently shooting on, will also be supported by IQ service units moving forward.

In short, I am sorry that you had a Phase One product go down at such a crucial time, but I think that Phase One under the circumstances that we worked within did everything we could. - I hope after reading my reply you will agree.

My Area Sales Manager in LA is Brent Siebenaler - you can reach him through your local dealer, and you can always call the me at the US office in Melville.

I wish you and everybody reading this a great day, and happy shooting.

Best regards,

Claus Pedersen
President - Phase One US



Here's the thing, nothing remarkable was done to help me from phase one.  That's part of the point.  With the amount of money I have spent over the past 10 years of ownership, I can honestly say that Phase did not rise to the occasion.  You got me a back which you are obligated to do under the value added warranty.  I believe the warranty states that the replacement back is due to arrive within 24 hours.  My issue is that I actually got the back 48 hours after it went down.  I think good customer service would have been that you contacted the local sales rep to get in touch with me to come up with a solution.  Or provided me the contact info so that I could have contacted the local sales rep.  That would have been the type of service I would have appreciated.  That's the type of customer service I provide my clients. 

I was very clear with my dealer my work schedule.  If that information was transmitted to Phase One in Melville, why couldn't they have seen the need for urgency and attempted to contact me to come up with a solution on Monday morning?  That's $1000 that I cannot recover. 

I had no idea who the local sales rep is and even now, you have provided his name but I have no contact information for him.  I do not go through a local dealer for my digital back.  I don't think any local dealer are going to be interested helping me with obtaining that information as a result.  I contacted one dealer here in LA looking for a rental who only lectured me for not buying my back from him.  This, just 30 minutes after my back went down and I was trying to find a rental for the day to finish the shot.  I can give you his name in private. 

With regards to Jeff Shewe, I think the post from bcooter is pretty spot on.  I think Jeff exists in a much different world than I do.  So it's hard for him to imagine my situation.

With regards to 35mm cameras.  My tool is to shoot with MFDB.  It's the tool of my trade, it's an integral part of my process.  If 35mm worked for my approach, that would be my tool.  I do have a 35mm back up camera that I did use.  I don't understand a thread about a dead phase back can devolve into a discussion about quality of nikon vs canon, or whatever it is that's going on with the conversation.  I think this back and forth about 35mm vs medium format is ridiculous.  Just choose the tool that works for you and your methodology. 

David
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Prakash Patel
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2012, 08:16:11 PM »
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David

You are lucky that you could confirm your back was dead and its only gonna cost you 1K and your time....since it is visible your client might even understand.
We all learn lessons........I had a similar but an invisible situation a couple of years ago shooting a terminal at JFK.
After shooting a 16 hour day on a multi-day shoot, while downloading the CF cards @11pm I realized some of the files were corrupt.
Preview JPG files show up just fine on the back...but some of the raw file data is corrupt. While I was never a boy scout myself, being prepared with another identical Sinar e75 saved me. I had a 5 year warranty 24 hour replacement warranty that was useless as the terminal that I was shooting would be in full operation in 3 days.........the replacement back would show up a 1.5 days later.
Doing the math, if you are lucky and your  back goes out in the morning, you can get a back the next morning after 8 am or 10:30 am
So at minimum you loose an afternoon, dusk, dawn and morning and after testing the replacement unit you might be able to
shoot the following afternoon if everything is peachy ........like the focal plane is where it is supposed to be. If your back goes out in the afternoon or later...well you are $%&* deeper.
You are right about your comments about your selected tool, I drag around a an slr with a full compliment of PC lenses as well.
But not being able to use my tech camera with premium glass is not an option for me just like it sounds it is not for you.

The only productive suggestion is to use a service offered by ProGear/Doug Sperling in Chicago...rent a back at 1/2 price as a back up unit
or pony up and get 2nd back. I am actually surprised that more dealers don't offer this as a revenue generating device.
Perhaps if you purchased from that dealer they could offer it to their client for less than 50% of rental costs (if unopened)......certainly beats collecting dust on a shelf or being loaned out for demo for extended time frames  to tire kickers.
Any way sorry to hear about your experience and as a result I have decided not to sell off my second back.....you have made me realize
that all electrical devises will fail, its just a matter of time and when the failure will occur.

Thank you for sharing your story.

regards,


« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 08:26:45 PM by Prakash Patel » Logged

mediumcool
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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2012, 09:19:57 PM »
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Trolling the MF forum now are we?



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