Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: DEAD IQ160  (Read 15503 times)
Kumar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 652


WWW
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2012, 09:30:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Dear David and Photographers friends,

I have Area Sales Managers + a number of tech supporters strategically placed throughout the US, who all have lots of equipment to share, and I know they use it not only for sales purposes but for emergencies like the one you just had. - We try out best to meet any demand and on-site help.

Phase One US is based on a highly skilled distribution setup with multiple dealers/resellers that take care of shooters daily, most of them even on weekends.
The specific case we (Phase One US) only heard about Monday morning at 10.43, immediately (within 40 minutes) we replied that a loaner could go out in shape and form of a P65+ since it was urgent, and this was okay by the contact at the reseller we communicated with.
This loaner was shipped that same morning and arrived the very next day, which under the circumstances I believe is within reason, I read from your comments that you feel so too.

My Area Sales Manager in LA is Brent Siebenaler - you can reach him through your local dealer, and you can always call the me at the US office in Melville.

David is based in LA, and he's shooting downtown. The Phase One Sales Manager Brent Siebenaler is based in LA.
David's back goes down on Sunday, and presumably, he calls his dealer immediately, asking for a replacement.

1. His dealer doesn't give him Brent's contact details right away, or call him on David's behalf? In fact, as soon as he has bought his shiny new back, why isn't he given the contact details of ALL the possible people who can help him, wherever he is shooting at the moment?

2. Brent is in LA, and gets the message at 10:43 on Monday. So why doesn't he call David at 10:44 - or even 40 minutes later? Why doesn't he drive down to David's shoot with a replacement back and FW400 cable?

Yes, Phase One honored the letter of the VA warranty. They didn't provide great customer service.

Kumar
Logged

Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5426


WWW
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2012, 09:50:46 PM »
ReplyReply

1. His dealer doesn't give him Brent's contact details right away, or call him on David's behalf? In fact, as soon as he has bought his shiny new back, why isn't he given the contact details of ALL the possible people who can help him, wherever he is shooting at the moment?

I guess you missed the part where David said:

"I had no idea who the local sales rep is and even now, you have provided his name but I have no contact information for him.  I do not go through a local dealer for my digital back.  I don't think any local dealer are going to be interested helping me with obtaining that information as a result.  I contacted one dealer here in LA looking for a rental who only lectured me for not buying my back from him.  This, just 30 minutes after my back went down and I was trying to find a rental for the day to finish the shot."

So, he doesn't really have a dealer relationship to fall back on...and I don't think Claus would post Brent's contact info on a public forum. Kinda comes down to having the benefit of a good and close working relationship with a local dealer. Fortunately, here in Chicago I have a good relationship with Progear Rental and even have Doug Sperling's cell and home number and the Phase One midwestern sales manager Murray Elliott (although I only have Murray's cell not home number). If you are spending a ton of money on a system it behooves you to know the people who can help you out in a pinch. If you don't deal with a local Phase One dealer, it makes that a bit tough.
Logged
Kumar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 652


WWW
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2012, 10:19:15 PM »
ReplyReply

Jeff, I did not miss that. I think you're missing my point. This isn't about the dealer. The warranty isn't issued by the dealer, but by Phase One.

I did not suggest that Brent's (or anyone else's) contact details be posted on a public forum. But actually, why wouldn't/shouldn't Phase One give this information to customers who are buying new equipment?

So you're in Chicago, and you go to LA for a shoot. Your back (with a VA warranty) goes down. Would you like/expect that a replacement back come from LA in a couple of hours, or wait the stipulated 24 hours to come from your dealer (or the Phase One rep) in Chicago?

Phase One allows dealers to sell their equipment according to country, correct? And anyone in the US is free to buy from any dealer in the US (and get a VA warranty)? So why penalize the customer for not buying locally?

Phase One is issuing the warranty. Not Phase One LA, or Phase One Chicago or Phase One NYC. I think some companies play this game of acting like a big multinational or a mom-and-pop store whenever it suits them.

Kumar
Logged

Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5426


WWW
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2012, 10:58:57 PM »
ReplyReply

So you're in Chicago, and you go to LA for a shoot. Your back (with a VA warranty) goes down. Would you like/expect that a replacement back come from LA in a couple of hours, or wait the stipulated 24 hours to come from your dealer (or the Phase One rep) in Chicago?

I would expect (because that is my expectation) that I would call my dealer or Phase One in NY and have a replacement back in 24 hrs. Yes, I might try Murray or Brent to see if I could get a back but I would neither expect or demand it...and if I were shooting on a Sun I would not expect the replacement before early Tues AM (and not by 5AM).

The fact that David didn't have a relationship with an LA based Phase One dealer led to the fact he couldn't get a quick emergency back to keep shooting...if Brent had a back and wasn't otherwise committed for a Sun or early Mon I suspect David could have gotten a loaner quicker. He didn't have an LA relationship so he didn't have a clue who to call. Whose fault is that? Phase One's? I don't think so...

Look, any way you analyze this the only shortcoming from Phase One was sending a P65+ instead of an IQ 160. Everything else was done within the reasonable expectations of a value added warrantee. Do you dispute that? If David expected Phase One to answer a call on Sun and get him a back on Mon, his expectations were not realistic. Right? So, David bit the bullet and it cost him $1K to rent a back for 2 days.  Hopefully he was charging enough that it only impacts his profit from the job and that his IQ 160 can get fixed and back in his hands quickly. One wonders what actually happened to his back–as an IQ owner, I'm curious...

On the other hand, if I'm gonna spend upwards of $50K (which I did) I would make an effort to get to know the people I need to know such as my local dealer, the regional Phase One guy, the president of Phase One US (yes, I know Claus) as well as some of the guys from Denmark. But hey, that's me...
Logged
Graham Welland
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 610


« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2012, 12:15:45 AM »
ReplyReply

On the other hand, if I'm gonna spend upwards of $50K (which I did) I would make an effort to get to know the people I need to know such as my local dealer, the regional Phase One guy, the president of Phase One US (yes, I know Claus) as well as some of the guys from Denmark. But hey, that's me...

Jeff,

I think that this is the crux of the issue. I always try to get to know personally (even if briefly and cursory) the folks in the organization so that even if they only remember my name that there is a connection of some sort. This applies to all aspects of business and definitely greases the wheels ...

Btw, kudos to Claus for coming here to the forum. I'm pleased to hear that the placement backs for IQ VA will be IQ's because to be honest as an amateur who forked out for the VA on my IQ160 I'd be pretty pissed if I got a P+ back as a replacement for any period of time. That's NOT what I paid for!
Logged

Graham
Kumar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 652


WWW
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2012, 01:35:51 AM »
ReplyReply

I would expect (because that is my expectation) that I would call my dealer or Phase One in NY and have a replacement back in 24 hrs. Yes, I might try Murray or Brent to see if I could get a back but I would neither expect or demand it...and if I were shooting on a Sun I would not expect the replacement before early Tues AM (and not by 5AM).

The fact that David didn't have a relationship with an LA based Phase One dealer led to the fact he couldn't get a quick emergency back to keep shooting...if Brent had a back and wasn't otherwise committed for a Sun or early Mon I suspect David could have gotten a loaner quicker. He didn't have an LA relationship so he didn't have a clue who to call. Whose fault is that? Phase One's? I don't think so...

Look, any way you analyze this the only shortcoming from Phase One was sending a P65+ instead of an IQ 160. Everything else was done within the reasonable expectations of a value added warrantee. Do you dispute that? If David expected Phase One to answer a call on Sun and get him a back on Mon, his expectations were not realistic. Right? So, David bit the bullet and it cost him $1K to rent a back for 2 days.  Hopefully he was charging enough that it only impacts his profit from the job and that his IQ 160 can get fixed and back in his hands quickly. One wonders what actually happened to his back–as an IQ owner, I'm curious...

On the other hand, if I'm gonna spend upwards of $50K (which I did) I would make an effort to get to know the people I need to know such as my local dealer, the regional Phase One guy, the president of Phase One US (yes, I know Claus) as well as some of the guys from Denmark. But hey, that's me...

While I agree that personal relationships are important, I think we have a very different understanding of how things ought to work...
I had a problem with my privately bought H20. Doug Peterson offered to help - even though I was in Japan and he in the US. I went with the Japanese dealer because of Phase One's policies. My Amex card covered 90% of the cost, so it really didn't matter either way. But Doug's offer, and his quick and responsible attitude was great.

When my Imacon 132C developed fungus, I got in touch with Shriro, the importer, and at that time, Hasselblad's owner. I was asked to get in touch with the local dealer - who quoted "between 100,000 and 150,000 yen" for a repair that Hasselblad listed at 295 Euro! I wrote to David Grover, and then, Carsten Kronborg, Director After Sales. I got my repair done directly, bypassing the dealer who wanted an extra 50,000 to 100,000 yen for acting as postman.

There are good and bad dealers...

The organization has to decide how it wants to treat its customers - and how it wants its dealers and representatives to treat its customers.

A question for Claus: Does Brent represent Phase One dealers in LA or Phase One users in LA? This would clarify a few things...

This is of only academic interest to me at the moment, since I'm not in the US. But it may help those in the US - or when I visit the US - with a Phase One back in my bag...

Kumar
Logged

torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1376


« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2012, 01:42:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Does it need to be this complicated? I just want to buy the thing, not make friends :-).

I'd rather have lower prices and less friendship, and then just afford a second back (although a DSLR probably would do as a backup these days) and get the repair when there's time.
Logged
Kumar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 652


WWW
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2012, 01:45:22 AM »
ReplyReply

I think that this is the crux of the issue. I always try to get to know personally (even if briefly and cursory) the folks in the organization so that even if they only remember my name that there is a connection of some sort. This applies to all aspects of business and definitely greases the wheels ...

Shouldn't it work the other way around too? Shouldn't the organization keep in touch with its customers? When my bank gets a new "relationship manager", he/she calls to introduce him/herself and invites me to the branch for a chat over a cup of coffee...

Kumar
Logged

Graham Welland
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 610


« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2012, 02:06:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Shouldn't it work the other way around too? Shouldn't the organization keep in touch with its customers? When my bank gets a new "relationship manager", he/she calls to introduce him/herself and invites me to the branch for a chat over a cup of coffee...

Kumar

Kumar,

Yes it should!! but being a realist I've found that some effort on my behalf makes up for the disappointment of waiting for the vendor/dealer to reach out on their own.

I'm in the sales business myself for products that cost millions of $$$ and even then if I waited for a vendor or partner to go out of their way to contact me, I'd be disappointed so I prefer to nullify the negative issues and be proactive whether I need to be or not.

For the MFDB vendors that I've dealt with, this should be a wake up call to make the effort to contact your customers because this stuff matters a LOT and to be honest a social connection is probably the the difference between me spending $k's with you or with a better communicating dealer!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 02:09:07 AM by Graham Welland » Logged

Graham
Graham Welland
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 610


« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2012, 02:11:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Does it need to be this complicated? I just want to buy the thing, not make friends :-).

I'd rather have lower prices and less friendship, and then just afford a second back (although a DSLR probably would do as a backup these days) and get the repair when there's time.

In an ideal world maybe. Ultimately though I think that relationships matter a LOT.
Logged

Graham
ondebanks
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 820



« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2012, 09:39:04 AM »
ReplyReply

All this stuff about the need for "relationships" strikes me as odd...and actually unprofessional.

The fact that David didn't have a relationship with an LA based Phase One dealer led to the fact he couldn't get a quick emergency back to keep shooting...

I have no idea of the professional pressures that David faced, but it does seem apt to describe his situation as an "emergency", as you have done.

Now when you call the emergency services, what happens? The dispatcher sends the nearest available ambulance to get you that defibrillator asap. You don't have to be a barbecue-buddy with the ambulance driver, or even know his name. And even if you once insulted the local fire chief, he still is going to come sirens-blaring and put your house-fire out because that's his job. He won't say "sorry pal, our relationship is poor: you'll have to get the fire service from some other city".

The fact that the Phase One VA Warranty does not operate in this "emergency services", nearest-and-fastest-and-no-relationship-needed way might need to be looked at again. It certainly is how David expected to be served, having paid handsomely for that VA warranty.

Ray

Logged
ziocan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 427


« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2012, 04:45:15 PM »
ReplyReply

No better glass than canon ?  Do you know about a brand called: Rodenstock ?  or Shneider ?  i might even direct you to Leitz.. ?

I did not explain myself properly.
"Better glass" as one brand only being better than anything else, does not exist.
there are great lenses from few different brands. For example: Zeiss, Schneider or Leica to name a few.
IMO the L series from Canon does not belong to the category of "glass better than anything else" as many fanboys love to believe.
.
Logged
ziocan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 427


« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2012, 05:02:46 PM »
ReplyReply

BTW, When we spend 40 or 50 grands for a car, it comes with a booklet full of phone numbers where you can find "someone" who will come to rescue you within a couple of hours, no matter how good is your relationship with the dealer who sold you the car.
Logged
bcooter
Guest
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2012, 01:36:53 PM »
ReplyReply

Since the beginning of digital capture and forums there have been 3 basic subjects, replayed a thousand times.

1.  Medium Format is better (or not better) than 35mm.

It depends on what you shoot, but the cold hard reality is for 99.9% of all professional work, no client asks for more than 22mp.   You may believe they do, tell them they need to, etc. etc. etc., but in reality if you process out and uprezz and sharpen a file properly, do expert post production and shoot a pretty picture, nobody will talk about the megapixels.   Nobody.

2.  Medium Format costs too much.

Who cares?  Really if it costs Phase or Blad $2 or 2 million to make a camera back,  they sell them for what they can get, just like everyone else in the commercial world sells everything for as much as they can to insure a profit.

Actually, my medium format backs are probably the cheapest things I own in the long run, because I probably won't replace them for a lot of years, they're not that many moving parts for anything to break and honestly I never bought them because someone made me, I bought them because I wanted to.

Also as time goes by due to low iso and the speed in which we shoot, I use them less, so they get less wear and tear, so at this point they've more than repaid the investment so I just keep them and whether anyone likes it or not I'd spend 3 grand on a 36 mpx nikon before I'd spend 5 grand fixing and old camera back.

Now if you want to talk over priced . . .  go look at ipads, i phones (actually anything that is called I stuff).  hard drives, software, software, software, software and software.    Software.... that's where the real serious money is.

3.  The Value Added Warranty is a must have or it's a waste of money.

I guess it depends on who you are, where you live, what you shoot.  If I lived across the street from a dealer, only worked in a studio and they had my exact back, body and lenses in multiples in stock, I'd see the VAW as worthwhile, but anything past that it's just a fear buy.

It's like blowing the transmission in your audi.   Do you want to spend 15 grand to fix a 25 grand used car, pay 4 grand a year for 4 years of coverage, or just toss the car and sign up for a new one?  It's all a wash in the long run.

Personally I think the VAW us a fear buy, that is all gravy for the dealer.  Since I work everywhere, use Contax and no dealer is going to have a back in my flavor or get one to me in any cost effective time frame, I'lll pass and if the thing breaks, I'll either pay to fix it, or toss it.

The best insurance is backups.  Lots of backups.

Now in reality I don't get the pricing of medium format still backs  when I can buy a military grade RED One for 20 grand, a semi military grade Scarlet for 14 grand and not knowing how any of this stuff is made, it sure seems to me like the cinema cameras are a lot more complicated than that little box that goes on the back of a still camera, but once again I don't know how this stuff is made and hope I never find out.

I'm sure other people will have differing opinions.

IMO

BC


Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2012, 03:43:32 PM »
ReplyReply

... it sure seems to me like the cinema cameras are a lot more complicated than that little box that goes on the back of a still camera, but once again I don't know how this stuff is made and hope I never find out.


It sure seems to me too...

And Red isn't a giant like Panasonic to play at cutting down prices, they earn quite good money with their cameras they almost could buy Greece, and as pointed, military grade...

I better not find out the tech involved in those little MF boxes called back either, so I still can keep the (naive) idea that we've not been swindled for decades.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 03:50:34 PM by fredjeang » Logged
LKaven
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 788


« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2012, 05:21:22 PM »
ReplyReply

... when you call the emergency services, what happens? The dispatcher sends the nearest available ambulance to get you that defibrillator asap. You don't have to be a barbecue-buddy with the ambulance driver, or even know his name. And even if you once insulted the local fire chief, he still is going to come sirens-blaring and put your house-fire out because that's his job. He won't say "sorry pal, our relationship is poor: you'll have to get the fire service from some other city".

A welcome note of sanity. 
Logged

ndevlin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 504



WWW
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2012, 09:55:27 PM »
ReplyReply


This thread does seem to highlight a problem in the MFDB business model.  At the price, users expect really exceptional service. A pro shouldn't have to be buds with the guy who runs the company to get that.  But the alternative is a 24/7 call-centre/roadside service type of model. That's gonna cost a ton of money, especially for such a low-volume product, and probably isn't realistic.   

If the economics of it can't sustain that, and the realities of geography in most instances dictate that even the fastest arriving replacement is 24 hours away at a minimum, what's the point of the spend on the VA?  Most users will simply chose to spend the VA $$ on a D800 kit, accelerating - for the reasons Bcooter so lucidly laid-out -- the shift to 35mm.

- N. 
Logged

Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
JayGarrick
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2012, 03:05:42 AM »
ReplyReply

I apologize to all those in the thread as well as the OP if I am missing something in regard to this issue but this is what I can ascertain.

I do not go through a local dealer for my digital back.  I don't think any local dealer are going to be interested helping me with obtaining that information as a result.

This seems to be the heart of the problem, no?

To me, a non-professional user of a P25+, David's main issue is with the Company that manufactures the product and not the source that the reseller (Phase One) designates to sell the unit, as it should be.

The way I read the problem is as follows;
Customer buys $40,000 Mercedes in California through a tertiary sales channel (Not a local Mercedes Dealership)
Car dies on California Highway (over the weekend) shortly after purchase leaving customer stranded.
Customer is upset with Mercedes as a whole for not sending a new car within 24 hours. (Mercedes being based in Germany, with local sales offices throughout the world)


Again I don't mean to offend and I apologize if I am missing the nuances of the issue and oversimplifying but should the grievance regarding service (in the above scenario) really be lodged against the Manufacture?  If the "Mercedes" in this scenario was purchased from the Local Dealer, wouldn't the entire conflict be a non-issue?  Isn't that the business model, to sell through local channels so that they can offer support and put a face to the Product?

If you purchase a Phase One back on your own, and not through a local dealer, is it fair to then demand personal support from a global company thousands of miles away, expecting them to somehow manifest a personal relationship with you?  Isn't that a bit unreasonable?  If the back had been purchased from a Local dealer I imagine you would be on a first name basis with the salesperson, have their cell number for an emergency and it's likely that you would have the cell number of the local Phase One rep if you couldn't contact the salesperson.
Logged
HarperPhotos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1240



WWW
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2012, 04:40:40 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi Jay,

Total agree with your comment.

Some years ago my Leaf Aptus 75 died in the middle of a shoot so I rang the New Zealand rep Mike who sent over a replacement Leaf Aptus 65 back with in the hour even though I bought the back from  the Leaf distributor in Australia some years earlier. But unfortunately David was shooting on a Sunday.

Cheers

Simon
Logged

Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
http://www.harperphoto.com
http://www.facebook.com/harper.photographics

Auckland, New Zealand
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 674



« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2012, 05:06:52 AM »
ReplyReply

If you purchase a Phase One back on your own, and not through a local dealer, is it fair to then demand personal support from a global company thousands of miles away, expecting them to somehow manifest a personal relationship with you?

I believe that the back was purchased from a dealer (where else could it have been bought except through private sale?), because the OP said “I will not give out my dealer's info.”? It sounds as if he was working away from his usual haunts. Another thought is whether he should have/could have checked ahead of time to find a local dealer or dealers, just in case.
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad