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Author Topic: Zeiss Tele-Tessar PQ 8.0/1000 mm  (Read 3713 times)
JV
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« on: June 19, 2012, 06:47:25 PM »
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Anybody got cash...?  Smiley
http://www.ebay.de/itm/310408716269#ht_6241wt_1141
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 06:54:29 PM by JV » Logged
EricWHiss
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 03:35:34 AM »
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 Shocked
Wow!
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Gigi
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 06:40:14 AM »
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first on your block to have one....
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Geoff
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 07:50:58 AM »
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I have a perfect lens just like this for a lot less.
Anybody interested?

I don't  have a Rollei to use it on..

Henrik
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jeanlucco
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 10:27:52 AM »
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I have a perfect lens just like this for a lot less.
Anybody interested?

I don't  have a Rollei to use it on..

Henrik

I have the Rollei, always interested when it is a LOTTTT less! Please show us, the 1000mm is really exotic.
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JV
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 10:44:46 AM »
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The 500 is also still available, and it is less than half, almost a bargain... Smiley
http://www.ebay.de/itm/230812667695
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 11:30:33 AM »
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I've only seen two 500mm  Tele-APO-Tessars and until now no 1000mm rollei lenses.   The 500mm APO in the link posted has been available for getting close to a year at the approx $13k amount while the other 500mm APO exchanged hands twice on ebay for less than $4400.  Non APO 500mm's come up more regularly and seem to fetch about $2-2.5k. 

The $30k for the 1000 is just crazy! 
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 02:02:20 PM »
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I have the Rollei, always interested when it is a LOTTTT less! Please show us, the 1000mm is really exotic.


Ok. I will make a few quick picks tomorrow morning and post them.
I bought the lens some years ago. I have been collecting long tele-lenses for ten years.

Henrik
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jeanlucco
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 02:32:23 AM »
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I love my Schneider lenses (up till AFD 180), look forward to a 300. However, I will not invest a coin on a 500 or 1000 without serious test on real life. For sport events I use my Canon L lenses (2,8/300 IS and 2,8/400IS) and cannot imagine how can we get better results in terms of spontaneity. Not mentioning that most of the time you need to spray and pray, and then 10/12 fps is a must.
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 07:05:17 AM »
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ok. Then I won't bother making pics of it now.
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Lacunapratum
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 12:43:41 PM »
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The 1000mm is the old Zeiss Tele construction, similar in quality to the old Zeiss 500mm, which came in f8 for Hasselblad and SLX and in f5.6 for the Rolleiflex SL66.  As much as I appreciate its rarity, it's not on the same level as the 500mm APO, which is in turn not as good as the 300mm Schneider with 1.4 converter.  For today's digital world, it's not a very good lens and it has mostly collector's value.  I know it's a Zeiss and it's HFT coated, but non-APO lenses of that range are simply not very good performers.  Check the MTF graphs if in doubt...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 04:32:18 PM by Lacunapratum » Logged
JV
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 08:56:04 PM »
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The price seems to have been increased now with €5K... €34.995,00...  Smiley
http://www.ebay.de/itm/310409750653
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Lacunapratum
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 11:03:33 PM »
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Those extra 5K are for the additional chromatic abberations  Wink.

Only Pentax has a good set of lenses in this range:  the P645 A 600mm ED with converter, the P67 800mm ED with or without converter, and the 1000mm Zeiss Mirotar and its East German equivalent.  All can be adapted for the P645D. 
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xinchenc
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 04:56:31 AM »
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As much as I appreciate its rarity, it's not on the same level as the 500mm APO, which is in turn not as good as the 300mm Schneider with 1.4 converter.  Check the MTF graphs if in doubt...

I bet you will say 250mm Sonnar is not as good as the 180mm Schneider with 1.4 converter. Grin

Have you ever compared the actual pictures by each lens? Or just show off your imagination?

Would you please show me the MTF graphs of the  300mm Schneider with 1.4 converter, beacuse I am in doubt. Huh Huh Huh


« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 05:03:09 AM by xinchenc » Logged
Gigi
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 07:08:48 AM »
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here it is for the 300 APO, don't know of one with the 1.4TX. But the man knows of what he speaks.
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Geoff
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 09:31:11 AM »
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Those extra 5K are for the additional chromatic abberations  Wink.

Only Pentax has a good set of lenses in this range:  the P645 A 600mm ED with converter, the P67 800mm ED with or without converter, and the 1000mm Zeiss Mirotar and its East German equivalent.  All can be adapted for the P645D.  

Don't forget the flat-field telescope options which cover medium format. For example, the Takahashi FSQ106-ED (530mm f/5) has an 88mm image circle (6x7 cm), and adapters to Mamiya 645 and Pentax 67 (from which you can further adapt to Pentax 645). It has finer optical quality (of the order of 1/10th wave correction) than any made-for-cameras lens.

Ray
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 09:32:46 AM by ondebanks » Logged
ondebanks
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 09:40:31 AM »
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here it is for the 300 APO, don't know of one with the 1.4TX. But the man knows of what he speaks.

Man, the illumination falloff is terrible with the Schneider 300mm at f4.

Here's the Tak (530mm) at f5, for comparison...the difference is huge.

Ray
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Lacunapratum
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 01:56:27 PM »
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Thanks, Ray, for your reference to the Takahashi.  I was always curious about these, never tried one.  According to hearsay, these aren't flat for photographic purposes, even though they are called flat-field.  But this might refer to previous generations and I'd happily stand corrected.  Are you US based?  Where do you get these and the adapters?  

As I said, Pentax has some good options in this range, and the 600mm/5.6 is quite nice.  I do realize that there is still a tiny margin left for improvement  Smiley.

For all practical purposes, the 300mm Schneider APO is a wonderful lens and the 1.4x converter does not appear to degrade image quality at all.  In fact, I keep the converter on the 300mm as part of my standard walk-around kit.  I use this with the Sinar eMotion 75LV, which might explain why I don't notice any fall-off at all.  Very sharp.  Thanks, Geoff.  

Talking about 250mm.  Above 200mm, non-APO medium format telephoto designs all show some level of chromatic aberrations, which are only amplified in the digital world.  Carl Zeiss recognized this early when they introduced the Superachromat.  Rollei must have briefly toyed with adopting the Superachromat as there was a single reference in an old SL66 catalogue, but for reasons I cannot comprehend they never did.  BTW – the 250mm Superachromat has the same level of light fall-off as the 300mm Schneider APO Tele-Xenar.  

I did once compare all the 250mm medium format lenses in my arsenal and the winner was, surprise, the 250mm Mamiya APO 4.5 RZ, which I had hacked onto my Pentax 645D.  It easily surpassed a rare Carl Zeiss-built (instead of the Rollei-built) 250mm Sonnar, which I have for the Rollei system.  

I have never used the 180mm Tele-Xenar with the 1.4x converter, even though I have both.  I have also not tested this or the 110mm Planar for resolution as it makes little sense.  These lenses are certainly not designed for shooting brick walls.  Others have compared the 180mm Tele-Xenar to the more recent 180mm f/4 Sonnar and found the Sonnar sharper, which seems trustworthy to me.  The 180mm Sonnar is in another league than the 250mm Sonnar and among Hasselblad’s best lenses.  The old Hasselblad… I’d still prefer the Tele-Xenar any day because of its speed and un-matched bokeh.  

Those Schneider lenses for the Rolleiflex system commissioned by Heinrich Mandermann during his Rollei years are until this day the crème de la crème of medium format optics.  The compact 40mm Super-Angulon, the fast 50mm/2.8, the 55mm shift lens.  The 60mm/3.5 Curtagon, the 80mm Xenotar, and the 150mm Tele-Xenar all three are top in terms of sharpness and contrast.  The 90mm APO-Symmar is perhaps the best medium format lens ever, closely followed by the 150mm/4.6 APO for macro purposes.  Then the 180mm Tele-Xenar for portraits and the 300mm APO.  Medium format lens heaven.  
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 02:01:57 PM by Lacunapratum » Logged
ondebanks
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 04:10:09 AM »
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Thanks, Ray, for your reference to the Takahashi.  I was always curious about these, never tried one.  According to hearsay, these aren't flat for photographic purposes, even though they are called flat-field.  But this might refer to previous generations and I'd happily stand corrected.  

Yes, they are flat-field. I've never heard anything to the contrary and I have spent a lot of time in astrophotography forums etc. (Is it possible that the "hearsay" referred to other scopes in the Tak lineup which are classical doublets/triplets and which need auxiliary field flatteners?) You'll find FSQ-106 image samples on the web, from 6x7 film shots to full-res 37x37mm CCD shots. You just can't discern a change in image sharpness with field position. There is naturally some variation across Takahashi's spot diagrams, but that is starting from a central sharpness which surpasses that of ordinary lenses. Given that the primary use of these instruments is imaging a field full of point sources, it makes sense that Takahashi chooses to present spot diagrams rather than MTF diagrams. But MTF diagrams would make comparison with other lenses easier.

Are you US based?  Where do you get these and the adapters? 

I'm based in Ireland. I don't actually own one of these - the €50k of savings we're putting into extending our house is taking priority! But I've priced them from several European dealers - listed at www.takahashi-europe.com. The UK dealers are a bit pricey. So Optique Unterlinden in France is where I'd get it. Their price list includes the MF adapters as well.

In the US, get it from www.takahashiamerica.com - Art Ciampi is your man.

As I said, Pentax has some good options in this range, and the 600mm/5.6 is quite nice.  I do realize that there is still a tiny margin left for improvement  Smiley.

Yes, it's the trade off between having uber-optics on the one hand, and having an aperture iris and lighter weight on the other hand!  Smiley

Ray
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 08:06:12 AM »
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I have a Wray 900mm F6.3 and a Kodak Aero-Ekta 610mm f6... but these are WW2 aero-recconaisence lenses.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
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