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Author Topic: Equipment & workstation for 4K-RAW flow  (Read 12690 times)
Bern Caughey
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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2012, 03:12:46 PM »
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Just last questions about Scarlet:
1. Using a DSLR as a videocam some people say it's much better to use stabilized lenses because normally a DSLR lacks this feature. Also with Scarlet is it better to use stabilized lenses to do videos?
2. Is it possible to mount Scarlet on a cheap rig (for example thecinecity.com) or Scarlet wants only its original rigs?
Thx

Stabilized lenses are a mixed blessing. They can be great for relatively static handheld work, but if your doing a lot of movement the stabilization can get confused, & cause the image to jump. The REDs suffers much less skew than lesser cameras, & you may find IS less of a concern, but it's still a great option to have in the bag.

I wouldn't cheap out on support gear though. By today's standards REDs are not lightweight cameras, especially all dressed up, & you don't want to overload cheap gear primarily designed for dSLRs. Stripped down an R1 can be shouldered with few add-ons, such a single 19mm rod with a pistol grip, a viewfinder, & a towel over your shoulder for padding, but this can get tiresome during long takes. You first need to determine how much your camera is going to weigh in it's different configurations, then buy appropriate support. In general you don't want your gear running at the outer limits of it's specs, so beefier is usually better.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 01:44:23 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2012, 04:11:14 AM »
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2. Autodesk Smoke 2013 (all-in-one)

There will be a new version of Smoke coming with enhanced timeline and lower price.

Smoke IMO is very powerfull because it's an all-in-one solution and the specs are very high-end.

I was about to take a Smoke training in a prestigious school in Madrid but here the motion marketplace collapsed and the possibilities to see the investment returned are very low at the moment and it will take years to recover.

The thing with Smoke is that this is a serious software to learn. If you go that route, you'll need to invest a lot of time on a tough learning curve and probably not possible to self-training (because of its complexity).
On the other hand, just look in the Cow and you'll see very fast that people who switched to smoke are really enthousistics.
The deal is this: it will cost you a lot more to master it, but when you do, it will cost you a lot less to produce high-end results.
No more need to go from this app to this other etc...
Honestly, if it was a little cheaper and I had time to learn it, I think I'd through away all the Avid, Da Vinci etc...and just work on it.
But keep in mind that this is a very high-end software and very demanding.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqYD1OqJpdM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TWoZ-gQvTI&feature=relmfu
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 04:14:50 AM by fredjeang » Logged
adrjork
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 05:18:58 AM »
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Great advices! Thx guys for all your replies! (more more... Wink)
Smoke! Yep, Autodesk wrote me an e-mail saying that the new Smoke's requirements will be less demanding than the previous version (they say that iMac27" gives good performances!)
Someone in the web says that Smoke in not so good for color-grading; the reason is that Autodesk just has a color-grading software that is Lust, but it's Windows-only or perhaps Windows&Linux-only, so de facto it seems that only Mac users call Smoke "finishing software". But it's only what I've read in web.
Anyway, I'll surely try to find a pdf manual of this monster! (HERE Smoke 2013 docs!)
Also, I don't know if Smoke 2013 will have a good multitrack audio platform...
Mr. fredjeang, you said you're using Avid and DaVinci (I suppose MediaComposer for editing and DaVinci for color-grading?), so you say that there is a good integration between these two softwares? (If I say... Avid+DaVinci vs Premiere+SpeedGrade?)

Just another little question about the scheduled "new" Scarlet with Dragon 6K sensor... I've read that some lens could have problems (vignetting) with this big sensor. In your opinion, the problem could be for APS-C lenses (EF-S) or also for full-frame lenses (EF)? And this issue could be related only to 6K takes or also to 4K takes? Any ideas?

(...ultra thanks, guys Wink)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 06:07:28 AM by adrjork » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2012, 07:30:18 AM »
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Great advices! Thx guys for all your replies! (more more... Wink)
Smoke! Yep, Autodesk wrote me an e-mail saying that the new Smoke's requirements will be less demanding than the previous version (they say that iMac27" gives good performances!)
Someone in the web says that Smoke in not so good for color-grading; the reason is that Autodesk just has a color-grading software that is Lust, but it's Windows-only or perhaps Windows&Linux-only, so de facto it seems that only Mac users call Smoke "finishing software". But it's only what I've read in web.
Anyway, I'll surely try to find a pdf manual of this monster! (HERE Smoke 2013 docs!)
Also, I don't know if Smoke 2013 will have a good multitrack audio platform...
Mr. fredjeang, you said you're using Avid and DaVinci (I suppose MediaComposer for editing and DaVinci for color-grading?), so you say that there is a good integration between these two softwares? (If I say... Avid+DaVinci vs Premiere+SpeedGrade?)

Just another little question about the scheduled "new" Scarlet with Dragon 6K sensor... I've read that some lens could have problems (vignetting) with this big sensor. In your opinion, the problem could be for APS-C lenses (EF-S) or also for full-frame lenses (EF)? And this issue could be related only to 6K takes or also to 4K takes? Any ideas?

(...ultra thanks, guys Wink)

Hi,
Well, the procedure workflow with Avid to Resolve (I don't have yet the MC 6 but work on the 5 so I ignored if it changed), is basically through AAF.
But I hardly use them both now.
Avid is an HD editor and is unable to edit a 4K material at this resolution.

I'm using more and more Edius 6. It edits up to 4K in real time (with powerfull computer), but more importantly, the grading capabilities are almost unlimited. There is nothing you can do in Resolve you couldn't do in Edius, just that it's not as comfortable because obviously Da-Vinci being a dedicated specialized software, the interface is better implemented for the grading task. Edius 6 is the Grass Valley's Thomson editor and isn't very popular in Hollywood where Avid and FCP are the kings, but in Europe and Japan it is vastly used in broadcast teevees. The big chanel Eurosport for ex uses it.

The fact is that Edius, being basically an editor, is in fact closer to a Smoke philosophy (to some extend!) and not a lot of people know this. So if you master well enough the grading tools in Edius, you really don't need to use another dedicated software for color and you stay within the timeline up to finishing if there aren't compositing tasks needed. It has an equivalent of DNxHD called HQX and I find that the codec quality is extremely good and stable. You know, it's like this little brunette that nobody notice at first but when you really look at her she's really attractive!
Here there is a link that quickly shows the grading in Edius with Red files. And it just scratch the surface: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNrmb_EIeyo
But...it's windows only and no plans to go Mac, and the Red workflow is a DPX, no native R3D.

Premiere Pro seems to work well with Da-Vinci. There is a member here called C.Barrett that uses this workflow and seems satisfy. You could ask him.

Now I think the safest route is Da-Vinci. The fact is that if you are in colaborative workflow, there are zillion of colorists who work on Resolve while there are much less Smoke operators and there are expensive people to hire.
On the other hand, if you really plan to do your own prod in reduce team, going Smoke could indeed be very powerfull but not cheap. Then you'd have those more broadcast orientated softwares like Edius and if you don't plan to make star-wars or high-end commercial under deliveries pressures but a feature film with all the time for you, a software like Edius is more than enough to cover your needs, and you'll probably even won't reach its full capabilities.
 
About Smoke for grading, in fact it's prety damn good, but yes IMO there is a downside. It's a bit messy and unnecessary complex for color correction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWbiRHx1cTc&feature=related

IMO, the very good reason to stay Mac in motion is the Prores 444. Pcs can read it but not write it for Apple's strategical decision. It's a powerfull enough reason not to switch, even if high-end peecees are now the best option. But for a feature film I don't really see the Prores' bondage needs as you may end in image sequence for digi mastering. So you're quite free on that aspect.

Best luck.






« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 09:20:34 AM by fredjeang » Logged
adrjork
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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 12:08:59 PM »
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Oh man, the Smoke demo is just AMAZING! And the Edius demo is really impressive too!
I'm going to watch many video tutorials to decide which color-sw will be my...
little brunette that nobody notice at first but when you really look at her she's really attractive!
(yeah man, you are a genius! I completely agree with you! Wink)

It remains to me the doubt about the scheduled new Scarlet equipped with Dragon 6K sensor:
I've read that some lens could have problems (vignetting) with this big sensor. In your opinion, the problem could be for APS-C lenses (EF-S) only, or also for full-frame lenses (EF)? And this issue could be related only to 6K takes or also to 4K takes?

AAF vs OMF vs XML vs EDL?

You are Masters, guys! Thx.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 12:24:51 PM by adrjork » Logged
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