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Author Topic: 192MP Sinarback eXact?  (Read 9868 times)
EricWHiss
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« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2012, 09:44:44 PM »
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Lighting.  Forget $20k worth of strobes.   I've used metz 60 ct-4's, daylight (just watch the clouds), fluorescent, laboratory halogen lights with fiber optic cables, profoto studio lights. The only lights that gave me trouble were some home built fluorescent lights and those could still do multishot just not stable enough for microstep.   Lighting is simply not that big a deal.  I think the lighting can vary by as much as 10% in intensity from frame to frame with the hasselblad backs and it will still work. 

Really its not that hard to do.  The bigger issue that has been pointed out in other threads is do you want to wait for 19 frames and the software to crunch the data or do you want to do a single frame.  Remember that in a work environment time is money.  Plus do you want to cycle your strobes and shutters 4x, 6x or 19x as much?   Microstep may still offer better image quality in a controlled setting  - but it depends on the subject and the need.  One thing however, the workflow sure isn't. This is where the new Aptus 12 and IQ 180 are better.



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PdF
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« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2012, 04:40:32 AM »
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Where's Thierry when you need him?  Wink
Just kidding but it would be nice to have a sinar presence on the forums to answer these questions that have come up:

1) Are the smaller file size the result of software binning or hardware binning or a selection of the raw data?
2) Why no screen
3) New software
4) General stability of the company
5) Is this just a reuse of the same sensor and old 54h parts?



Unfortunately, Thierry Hagenauer (who no longer works for Sinar a long time ago) don't participate more in conversations of Luminous Landscape, because the company he works for (and which also makes some great cameras) has imposed silence on the internet .. .

Let's go to the questions:

1) Good question. No answer today.
2) It is the principle of Sinar's multishot backs: the work is made by the Mac, which simplifies the back's architecture. It heats up less, and features fewer electronics. The back is always connected by the FireWire, which also provides the energy. The back don't wear memory card or battery. Some will regret the lack of mobility of such a system. Others consider that it is the best condition for maximum quality.
3) The software is CaptureShop 6.1. No major problems. It has long operated with all the Sinar back. The eXposure program, arrived when Sinar was related to Eyelike, has unfortunately been abandoned. However, it only worked with some backs and not with multishots.
4) After some arduous years (the mistakes of the son Koch, the switchover to digital, the acquisition and abandonment by Jenoptic, the industrial failure of Hy6, etc ...) Sinar has refocused on top specific market. He abandoned any part of his equipment (Hy6, m, some "non professional" back, etc ...). Let's hope that these choices, very conservative, are the best!
5) The sensor of 86H is excellent. Its development with multishot technique, well developed, makes very good news. It is'nt an adventure into the unknown.

PdF
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PdF
museumbrich4d
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« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2012, 09:24:38 AM »
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There will be a new software for the exact. Its "Sinar CaptureFlow 1.x and higher." From: http://www.sinar.ch/en/products/digital-backs/144-sinarback-exact
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2012, 04:46:29 PM »
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Lighting.  Forget $20k worth of strobes.   I've used metz 60 ct-4's, daylight (just watch the clouds), fluorescent, laboratory halogen lights with fiber optic cables, profoto studio lights. The only lights that gave me trouble were some home built fluorescent lights and those could still do multishot just not stable enough for microstep.   Lighting is simply not that big a deal.  I think the lighting can vary by as much as 10% in intensity from frame to frame with the hasselblad backs and it will still work. 

Really its not that hard to do.  The bigger issue that has been pointed out in other threads is do you want to wait for 19 frames and the software to crunch the data or do you want to do a single frame.  Remember that in a work environment time is money.  Plus do you want to cycle your strobes and shutters 4x, 6x or 19x as much?   Microstep may still offer better image quality in a controlled setting  - but it depends on the subject and the need.  One thing however, the workflow sure isn't. This is where the new Aptus 12 and IQ 180 are better.

The beauty of digital is that we can profile/auto white balance almost any light source that has some red, green and blue in it - you do not have to have standard lighting of specified "tungsten" or "daylight" colour temperature for the available films, but I have colour std luminaries in my office.

Fluorescent is, I think useless for me as I want a small light source for modelling in macro... and a single LED is ideal for this - but it could be a5 penlight?

I have a 60Mpx back, so I can get res without MS, but want continuous light for DOF stitching too.

Maybe Hasselblad backs are more landscape orientated, so colour and brightness do not have to be so consistent?

What about using pinhole mode... does that eliminate shutter wear and tear? eShutters are nice, and they are supposed to last a long time, but 2,500 is expensive?

Do you think that 1 per click would cover the wear-and-tear costs of MFD?
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
FredBGG
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« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2012, 11:27:00 PM »
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The beauty of digital is that we can profile/auto white balance almost any light source that has some red, green and blue in it - you do not have to have standard lighting of specified "tungsten" or "daylight" colour temperature for the available films, but I have colour std luminaries in my office.

You actually lose significant color depth and tonal quality when you white balance far from the native white balance of your sensor.

Look at it this way. If you are shooting tungsten your blues are going to be under exposed and need to be lifted to achieve good balance.

In a sense it's like shooting under exposed and digitally pushing.

A fine sensor preforms far better with ideal light.
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2012, 01:59:29 AM »
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You actually lose significant color depth and tonal quality when you white balance far from the native white balance of your sensor.

Look at it this way. If you are shooting tungsten your blues are going to be under exposed and need to be lifted to achieve good balance.

In a sense it's like shooting under exposed and digitally pushing.

A fine sensor preforms far better with ideal light.
Yes, and this might me a major problem with fluorescent, which tends to have very little green?
...and what is the native colour temperature of our sensors? daylight/flash/5,500Kelvin?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 02:01:28 AM by Dick Roadnight » Logged

Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
LKaven
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« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2012, 04:02:38 PM »
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From the site:
"Digitalisation    48 BIT (16 Bits per Chanal)"

Apparently MFD manufacturers can never be cured of propagating the 16-bit myth.  Oh.  I see.  It's a 16-bit DIGITALISATION.  Well that solves it.  Otherwise, you see, I might think that this camera delivers 16 bits of actual image data.  Glad I didn't think that!
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PdF
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« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2012, 05:58:42 AM »
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A problem that worries me about this new back, as with all other backs (Phase, Hasselblad, Leaf, ...), by the way: in a short time, there will be perhaps no more computers able to using them!

The new MacBook Retina has abandoned the Fire Wire. Imagine that happening soon also with other MacBook Pro (when screen Retina becomes the norm). The 17-inch (my favorite) is already out!

On the Mac Pro, there is no more FireWire 400. Too bad for the older devices. Apple is trying to impose the Thunderbird, but almost no one follows. And what PC platform can accomodate the FireWire 800 ?

No Thunderbird-FireWire conversion is available.

PdF
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 08:21:55 AM by PdF » Logged

PdF
gerald.d
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« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2012, 09:30:40 AM »
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A problem that worries me about this new back, as with all other backs (Phase, Hasselblad, Leaf, ...), by the way: in a short time, there will be perhaps no more computers able to using them!

The new MacBook Retina has abandoned the Fire Wire. Imagine that happening soon also with other MacBook Pro (when screen Retina becomes the norm). The 17-inch (my favorite) is already out!

On the Mac Pro, there is no more FireWire 400. Too bad for the older devices. Apple is trying to impose the Thunderbird, but almost no one follows. And what PC platform can accomodate the FireWire 800 ?

No Thunderbird-FireWire conversion is available.

PdF


Thunderbolt to FireWire cable has already been announced by Apple. Latest rumors are that it will be available in September.
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design_freak
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« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2012, 09:42:10 AM »
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A problem that worries me about this new back, as with all other backs (Phase, Hasselblad, Leaf, ...), by the way: in a short time, there will be perhaps no more computers able to using them!

The new MacBook Retina has abandoned the Fire Wire. Imagine that happening soon also with other MacBook Pro (when screen Retina becomes the norm). The 17-inch (my favorite) is already out!

On the Mac Pro, there is no more FireWire 400. Too bad for the older devices. Apple is trying to impose the Thunderbird, but almost no one follows. And what PC platform can accomodate the FireWire 800 ?

No Thunderbird-FireWire conversion is available.

PdF


http://www.granitedigital.com/newfirewire1394bhostadapter.aspx

http://unibrain.com/

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/computercards/index.html



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DF

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PdF
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« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2012, 09:58:12 AM »
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Of course, a good big MacPro can be costumized (like mine). But what about laptops (and the next iMac's) ?

The MacPro is not very pleasant to move.

I hope the rumor will be confirmed as soon as possible.

PdF
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 10:00:41 AM by PdF » Logged

PdF
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