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Author Topic: Planning a New PC Build - Advice Needed  (Read 15087 times)
Sharon Van Lieu
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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2012, 11:10:13 AM »
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Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me Sheldon. I will have other drives for storage that I'm currently using in thermaltake usb docks as external drives but I'm glad to know the ram will take care of it. I think I will wait to get a second ssd later but I have a feeling that this system will be faster than I am. I'm used to having a lot of time to think while I wait for an operation to finish on my old computer.

Thanks for the help,

Sharon
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alifatemi
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2012, 02:38:57 AM »
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and another choice is to buy a rMBP highest config and get away with it! that's what I am thinking of now; hassle free; you will have two monitors; one for work panel the other just your picture, and when you are on the go, you have one of the best laptop with you. besides, it holds its value later on if you decide to upgrade and sell it (no sooner than 7 years for me though). and external drive also are safe and easy to connect for both your files and back up. I don't know the video but for pictures even huge files, I don't think we need more than it if not less.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 04:41:10 AM by alifatemi » Logged

Ali
Sharon Van Lieu
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2012, 09:12:21 AM »
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What is rMBP?

Sharon
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lfeagan
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2012, 09:20:39 AM »
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rMBP = MacBook Pro Retina

And even though I have a top-spec MBP Retina on the way, it isn't any competition for a desktop's performance and expansion capability.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 09:23:09 AM by lfeagan » Logged

Lance

Nikon: D700, D800E, PC-E 24mm f/3.5D ED, PC-E 45mm f/2.8D ED, PC-E 85mm f/2.8D, 50mm f/1.4G, 14-24 f/2.8G ED, 24-70 f/2.8G ED, 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II, 400mm f/2.8G ED VR
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Sharon Van Lieu
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2012, 09:46:50 AM »
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Ah - thank you, Lance. No I don't want a laptop but thanks anyway, Ali.

Sharon
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alifatemi
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2012, 09:58:09 AM »
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It was just a thought! Anyhow, I am also in same position like you looking for a new PC wondering about the best graphic card i can buy with Display Port for my soon-to-arrive Eizo 275 monitor. any recommendation please? Money is not concern. I like to use Eizo 10-bit ability. I looked at all Nvidia's but non of them has Display port so I am looking at AMD, ATI 7000 series that both have DP and 10-bit resolution support.
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Sharon Van Lieu
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2012, 12:57:49 PM »
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I've never heard of Display Port so I can't help you. Maybe someone else will know.

Sharon

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lfeagan
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2012, 03:50:03 PM »
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It was just a thought! Anyhow, I am also in same position like you looking for a new PC wondering about the best graphic card i can buy with Display Port for my soon-to-arrive Eizo 275 monitor. any recommendation please? Money is not concern. I like to use Eizo 10-bit ability. I looked at all Nvidia's but non of them has Display port so I am looking at AMD, ATI 7000 series that both have DP and 10-bit resolution support.

There are all sorts of nVidia cards with DisplayPort out, especially so in the Quadro series. Some have 4x DP out.

Here is a search for nVidia Quadro cards at Newegg with at least 1 DisplayPort
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=449&Description=&Type=&N=100008333+600044686&IsNodeId=1&IsPowerSearch=1&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&Manufactory=1441&Manufactory=1471&PropertyCodeValue=6926%3A43295&PropertyCodeValue=6926%3A77725&PropertyCodeValue=6926%3A43294&PropertyCodeValue=6926%3A46081&PropertyCodeValue=5751%3A38105

And here is a search for non-Quadro cards
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=100007709&IsNodeId=1&IsPowerSearch=1&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=3055%3A20548&PropertyCodeValue=6925%3A104102&PropertyCodeValue=6925%3A117866&PropertyCodeValue=6925%3A43296&PropertyCodeValue=6925%3A50590&PropertyCodeValue=6925%3A56930&PropertyCodeValue=6925%3A43297&PropertyCodeValue=6925%3A79237

Best luck with your search Ali. Next time perhaps start a new topic when you want to ask a heavily divergent question of your own.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 04:00:43 PM by lfeagan » Logged

Lance

Nikon: D700, D800E, PC-E 24mm f/3.5D ED, PC-E 45mm f/2.8D ED, PC-E 85mm f/2.8D, 50mm f/1.4G, 14-24 f/2.8G ED, 24-70 f/2.8G ED, 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II, 400mm f/2.8G ED VR
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Rowat
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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2012, 02:29:43 PM »
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Another thing to consider is that Windows 8 hits this Fall. There will always be an excuse to wait for something software/technology, but I suspect that we will also see a lot more hardware become available specifically tailored to Win8 when it does become available. I know I am waiting to upgrade my system until after that. I also agree about not going with a RAID-0 system. I have had all sorts of RAID systems in the past but now subscribe to the 'KISS' principle: Keep It Simple Stupid.


Andrew.
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Sharon Van Lieu
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« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2012, 04:08:45 PM »
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Andrew, I hope I don't have to wait til fall but I might have to since I have decided to spend more. I wonder what improvements will come with Win8. I have been happily using XP so I'm behind a bit. :-)

Sharon
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Sheldon N
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« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2012, 04:44:23 PM »
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It was just a thought! Anyhow, I am also in same position like you looking for a new PC wondering about the best graphic card i can buy with Display Port for my soon-to-arrive Eizo 275 monitor. any recommendation please? Money is not concern. I like to use Eizo 10-bit ability. I looked at all Nvidia's but non of them has Display port so I am looking at AMD, ATI 7000 series that both have DP and 10-bit resolution support.

If you are wanting to do 10/30 bit display on your Eizo, you will need to be on the Windows platform and you are very limited in your choice of cards. You need to buy a "workstation" class video card, which basically limits you to the AMD Firepro cards or the NVidia Quadro cards, and you need to use a Displayport connector.

I read up a lot on this and I don't recall anyone posting about being able to get the Quadro cards to work properly with 10 bit display in Photoshop, but I know the FirePro cards will work. I do NOT believe that any of the Radeon series cards will do 10 bit display.

10 bit display really only happens in Photoshop, not in the operating system or in Lightroom. You will most likely see the difference in reduced banding in greyscale images since you would be increasing from 256 levels of grey to 1024.  I don't know how visible it would be in color images. Note that you do lose the ability to use the Aero color schemes in the operating system.

I am currently using the AMD Firepro v4900 card and am able to get 10 bit display with a Dell U2711 in CS6. The v4900 represents a good compromise between price and performance. The next one up is the v5800 or v5900, which are approaching $400. I have no performance complaints with my v4900 for my needs in Photoshop.

A good article to read up on is this one. Check out the 10 bit test ramp file, which is the main way to test whether you are really getting 10 bit display. If you see banding, you have an 8 bit display, if it's smooth you are getting 10 bit.

http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/152/10+Bit+Output+Support
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alifatemi
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« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2012, 04:22:32 AM »
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thanks Shelton but I also believe all AMD Radeon 7000 series are able to support 10-bit and you are right, just in Windows platform and Photoshop. I don't know about Lightroom and if it ain't support 10-bit as U say, what a shame indeed. here is a footnotes for Radeon lowes model, 7750:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7750/Pages/radeon-7750.aspx#4
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Ali
Sheldon N
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« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2012, 11:09:17 AM »
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I've read all the specs on the 7000 series platform, but I'm not optimistic that it will work. The FirePro series cards describe the feature as "Full 30 bit imaging pipeline", not just a passing reference to 10 bit.  I've tried other Radeon cards with current drivers and none worked in CS6, although I didn't try the 7000 series.

If you do decide to try that route, let us know if you get it to work. Note that you need to view the "10 bit test ramp" file in Photoshop to really know if you've gotten it working.

You might also want to read these threads from Adobe.

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/506853

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4419815
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lfeagan
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« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2012, 12:09:36 PM »
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Here is another good article, with links to info on how to enable for ATI and nVidia cards.

http://www.ronmartblog.com/2011/07/guest-blog-understanding-10-bit-color.html
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Lance

Nikon: D700, D800E, PC-E 24mm f/3.5D ED, PC-E 45mm f/2.8D ED, PC-E 85mm f/2.8D, 50mm f/1.4G, 14-24 f/2.8G ED, 24-70 f/2.8G ED, 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II, 400mm f/2.8G ED VR
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alifatemi
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« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2012, 05:55:11 AM »
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Reading many articles that apple does not support 10 bit, I saw this one that proves otherwise. very interesting:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/10bit.shtml
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Ali
lfeagan
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« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2012, 09:52:18 AM »
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Reading many articles that apple does not support 10 bit, I saw this one that proves otherwise. very interesting:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/10bit.shtml

Good find. I had forgotten about that article. So, what is up with that article's content? It can't be correct, can it?
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Lance

Nikon: D700, D800E, PC-E 24mm f/3.5D ED, PC-E 45mm f/2.8D ED, PC-E 85mm f/2.8D, 50mm f/1.4G, 14-24 f/2.8G ED, 24-70 f/2.8G ED, 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II, 400mm f/2.8G ED VR
Fuji: X-Pro 1, 14mm f/2.8, 18mm f/2.0, 35mm f/1.4
John.Murray
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« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2012, 11:29:05 AM »
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Sharon:

AVA is a good outfit, good reputation...  Another is Puget Systems.

I'm alittle concerned about some about some of the advice; you should stay with socket 2011 for your intended use.  Socket 1155 is great for "enthusiast" use, gaming, etc - but the problem with that platform is memory access:

Socket 1155 uses an external onboard memory controller - meaning all memory access from the CPU is limited by the capabilities of your chipset.  Performance gains can only be had using very fast, low latency modules, with direct tradeoffs of performance vs: stability.

Socket 2011 uses an on die (ie on the CPU itself) memory controller, bypassing any chipset memory controllers.  If you look at memory placement on 2011 boards, you'll notice how memory modules are tightly clustered arounbd the CPU.  In addition, memory access is interleaved - in the case of this platform, you populate memory in 4's, each module is addressed in round robin fashion.  This reduces the effect low latency memory has on overall performance, allowing you to choose less expensive, higher stability modules.  I would highly recommend choosing a mainboard with 8 available modules vs: the more common 4 module boards.....

A lot of advice appears to be based on Newegg searches - thats great, but be aware they will sell anybody, anything, whether a "collection" of parts is appropriate or even compatible is of no concern to them - if you look at reviews, you can plainly see this.  I'm an Intel channel partner and obviously have a preference toward their mainboards (their engineering support is magnificent) - in the case of the model I pointed out, every negative review was posted by someone who neither understood or applied the relevant BIOS patch, and downloaded the correct drivers......  

Finally, you posted that you intend on using Adobe Premiere; this will decide your video card selection, as Premiere's Mercury rendering engine will only utilize nVidia GPU's.  Premiere officially supports only "workstation" class cards, but by altering %sysvol%\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Premiere Pro CS6\cuda_supported_cards.txt  many desktop class video cards can be effectively used.

Studio 1 Productions has a fascinating article exploring this with some suprising results in testing:

http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm

Let us know what you decide!

-John



 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 11:45:17 AM by John.Murray » Logged

Sharon Van Lieu
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« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2012, 12:04:21 PM »
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Thank you, John, especially for the memory controller information. I think I have settled on the Asus P9X79Pro which is the Socket 2011. I used the Adobe Premiere Pro hardware forum and  PPBM5 to help make the decision - PPBM5 benchmarks computers running Premiere Pro and systems using the P9X79 Pro and the i7-3930k perform very well.  I plan on going with GTX570. This mobo has 8 memory slots.  I learned my lesson about how mobos handle memory with my very first computer - a Compaq - with top specs for the time but had a flaw in how it accessed memory and couldn't run Photoshop so I really appreciate your info on that.

I used the Premiere Pro system requirements to decide on a video card. They say the card I chose is supported. It looks like the link you provided agrees that it is supported. It's not the best but I think it will work. I'm pretty psyched - my old computer was ancient so I can hardly imagine how this will change my workflow.

Thanks so much. I've had to wait a bit longer to order as I've increased my cost quite a bit but I think it will be worth it. When I get the system, I'll post again.

Sharon
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Chris Pollock
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« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2012, 02:41:05 AM »
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I'm alittle concerned about some about some of the advice; you should stay with socket 2011 for your intended use.  Socket 1155 is great for "enthusiast" use, gaming, etc - but the problem with that platform is memory access:

Socket 1155 uses an external onboard memory controller - meaning all memory access from the CPU is limited by the capabilities of your chipset.  Performance gains can only be had using very fast, low latency modules, with direct tradeoffs of performance vs: stability.

Socket 2011 uses an on die (ie on the CPU itself) memory controller, bypassing any chipset memory controllers.  If you look at memory placement on 2011 boards, you'll notice how memory modules are tightly clustered arounbd the CPU.  In addition, memory access is interleaved - in the case of this platform, you populate memory in 4's, each module is addressed in round robin fashion.  This reduces the effect low latency memory has on overall performance, allowing you to choose less expensive, higher stability modules.
I believe that this is not correct. Both socket 1155 and 2011 use memory controllers that are integrated into the CPU. The main difference is in the number of memory channels - socket 1155 has 2, and socket 2011 has 4. Socket 2011 therefore has twice the memory bandwidth for a given memory speed, and may allow you to install more memory - socket 2011 boards often have 8 memory slots, but socket 1155 boards only have 4. Both sockets will benefit from faster memory, but the higher bandwidth of socket 2011 may indeed make fast memory less important.

If you're worried about stability (which you should be if you care about your data) you should think about spending a little more for a system with ECC memory. This requires you to choose a Xeon processor, ECC RAM (either registered or unbuffered), and a motherboard with working ECC functionality. The processor and RAM are easy to obtain, but unfortunately socket 2011 motherboards with working ECC functionality are rare. Even if they claim to support it, many of the consumer boards apparently do not.

I'm planning to build a workstation myself in the next 6 months to replace my aging AMD system, and this is the best motherboard that I've been able to find:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9SRA.cfm

For the CPU I would recommend either a Xeon E5-1620 or E5-1650.

There are lots of options for RAM, and I don't know enough to recommend a specific brand.
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Sharon Van Lieu
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« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2012, 08:50:28 AM »
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Thank you, Chris. Those systems are out of my price range but they do look nice.

Sharon
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