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Author Topic: ipf8300 standalone profiling solution - best bang for the buck?  (Read 5739 times)
Roscolo
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« on: July 17, 2012, 03:53:35 PM »
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So looks like I'm likely going from a z3100 to a Canon ipf8300. Have gotten used to making my own profiles with the Z, and probably want to continue to do so. Do not want to go broke, however.

What printer media profiling solution would you recommend?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012, 01:21:57 AM »
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Not enough space to keep the Z3100 for profiling the iPF8300?


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Roscolo
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 02:31:21 AM »
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Not enough space to keep the Z3100 for profiling the iPF8300?


I've got plenty of space. I just didn't think I could use the z3100 to profile the ipf8300. That's possible? I thought I remembered reading some discussion on it here or somewhere and some folks had tried it but it didn't really work.

Have you used the z3100 to profile other printers successfully?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2012, 02:42:55 PM »
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There was no other printer here to do that job for. But I have used the method to print the target first and let it dry outside the printer and then insert it again for measuring. No issues there. The thing that comes next is getting the target image on the other printer and cutting the printed target to get the alignment on the Z3100. The created profile can be exported. I do not see where it could go wrong. May waste more media than a manual solution. The Z3100 Color Center profiler is not the best, the optional APS would be better.


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Roscolo
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2012, 06:10:49 PM »
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It seems like it would work in theory, but I remember someone saying the profiles made by the z3100 take into account the fact that you are printing on the z3100. I'm no expert here. That's what I like about the z's built in profiling. It works great and you don't have to be an expert.

That said, I just bought a Canon ipf8300. Not entirely happy with that choice over a z3200, but factoring in the price I paid (less than the z) and the included ink with the Canon (full carts, not starter carts like the z) enough money is saved to put towards a standalone profiling solution.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 02:06:08 AM »
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Then try it out. There must be a good HP document telling you what to do.

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update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more
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Roscolo
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 12:32:44 PM »
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Then try it out. There must be a good HP document telling you what to do.



Don't know about an HP document, but apparently if you have the APS version, you can profile other printers. Unfortunately I do not have the APS version, but I did download the APS software. Someone said you can install and run it in Demo mode and it will do everything except build the profile, but the data is there, then use another program to actually build the profile. So it may take a little research, but if I can use my z3100 to profile media on the Canon that will be nice!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 12:40:18 PM by Roscolo » Logged
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 02:45:23 PM »
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Two Zs here and two APS bundles. One I want to sell anyway. I have to look into it again but afaik the Z3200 Color Center profile creator also allows profiling other printers. I have an archive of HP documents that I will plow through, there might be a day that I have to do the same you are facing now.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more


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deanwork
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 06:20:13 PM »
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Well I just bought the new X-Rite Photo Pro software with the Eye One 2 spectro and it is producing a gamut on my Z3100 that I have never seen come out of any HPZ series printer.

I"m printing the Atkinson printer test chart today and the reds, yellows, and oranges are so much more intense that it looks as good as my Canon. This is with matte Canson Rag Photographique and Relative Colormetric rendering intent assigned. I haven't even tried it with the Harmon Baryta yet.

Not only that, the black and white content, the skin tones, and all that are improved. I have always been used to seeing a slight cool black with the HPZ when using their onboard spectro or other profiling set ups. Everyone I"ve seen who printed with one who didn't assign any color toning got the same hue. But with this profiling now I"m back to the kind of neutral that the Canon is producing with no color inks involved to neutralize it. I've made profiles with all kinds of software for this printer and none of them produced this. I look at those red strawberries and I say this couldn't be the Z3100, but it is.

I used to comment on how cool the HP internal profiling was. Now I"ll never go back to it.
john
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 02:26:11 AM »
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John,

You use the most modern spectrometer + software on the market right now, an expensive solution but a good one. With the Z's I saw progress from the first Color Center software for the Z3100 to the optional Z3100 APS and then again to the Z3200 Color Center software, the APS for that machine not better anymore than CC. The Z's spectrometer is also limited in the spectral range it measures compared to your spectrometer. Given the subject line    - best bang for the buck   I thought keeping the Z might be a good idea for Roscolo.


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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more




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georgek
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 04:20:28 AM »
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Profiles made with iSis and i1Profiler are pretty similar to Z3200 with APS so I pretty much use the APS profiles.
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SergeyT
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 03:16:45 PM »
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Well I just bought the new X-Rite Photo Pro software with the Eye One 2 spectro and it is producing a gamut on my Z3100 that I have never seen come out of any HPZ series printer.
You probably did mean colors in the prints? I have compared the gamuts in Windows color applet and was surprised to see how close they are. No, i1Profiler generated profiles are not wider than z3200 CC generated ones. The colors in the print is a different story.

Not only that, the black and white content... improved. I have always been used to seeing a slight cool black with the HPZ when using their onboard spectro or other profiling set ups...But with this profiling now I"m back to the kind of neutral that the Canon is producing with no color inks involved to neutralize it.
That can not be true. For as long as an image contains the same values in all 3 color channels the Z will lay down its gray and black inks only. One may not like the tint of those inks but that is not the point. No profiling can change that, I think. What is improved with i1Profiler is the overall smoothness of the B&W images. What can be seen as more neutrality is likely a result of applying different mixes (compared to the Z CC profiler) of inks to the image areas that have a small differences in the RGB channels values.   

I used to comment on how cool the HP internal profiling was. Now I"ll never go back to it.
I agree, printing with a Z through the i1Profiler generated profiles makes it feel like having a totally different (much better) printer.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 12:29:15 PM »
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So here is where I'm at. My ipf8300 just showed up. I get $1,000 rebate from Canon that I'm willing to throw towards a good profiling solution. I print my work, and work for other photogs. Most work for money is reproducing other artist's paintings on canvas and paper.

My set up:
Win 7 64 bit OS, NEC MultiSync P221W with Spectraview, Xrite Sensor, z3100 44" and now Canon ipf8300 44".

Going to try to use the z3100 to make profiles for the ipf8300. Don't have much confidence in that even if I get the APS to work, but something I'm willing to play around with for a while just to see.

So, options I'm looking at:
ColorMunki
vs.
ColorMunki and ArgyllCMS (have no experience with Argyll)
vs.
i1 Photo Pro 2
vs.
i1 Photo Pro

Have been happy with profiles make with z3100 non-APS profiles, so if ColorMunki is at least that good, I'm probably happy. But I've never used anything else either, other than downloaded manufacturer profiles, so I don't have the experience others here have.

If they priced that iPhoto Pro 2 at sub-$1,000, I would go for it. $1,549 pretty steep. But the Canon rebate may make even this pill one I can swallow. But I see the i1 Photo Pro (not version 2) can still be had for $800-$900. Perhaps this could be my solution?

 
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Czornyj
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 12:50:45 PM »
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After a couple of years I replaced my i1pro with i1pro2. It's more reliable, robust, convenient, and has all these fancy M0/M1/M2/OBC measurement modes. IMO it's well worth the money, and I wouldn't look back.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 01:36:03 PM »
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Well I just bought the new X-Rite Photo Pro software with the Eye One 2 spectro and it is producing a gamut on my Z3100 that I have never seen come out of any HPZ series printer.

I"m printing the Atkinson printer test chart today and the reds, yellows, and oranges are so much more intense that it looks as good as my Canon.

A bit OT but you might want to try using the X-Rite software to generate a target. I too used to use Bill’s fine target. But I found a visual improvement from profiles built using the same number of patches generated in the new software itself. Of course you could ask for more patches but it probably isn’t necessary, especially if you are willing to use the optimization process.
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Andrew Rodney
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Roscolo
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2012, 06:39:47 PM »
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Considering my APS is activated, I can now use the z3100 to profile the ipf8300. I believe that is the best bang for the buck. Curious as to the quality of the profiles the APS will generate for the ipf8300. I'll find out soon enough. I've got to get some friends over here to help lift the ipf8300 onto the stand. It really is a beast!
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149113
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2012, 12:32:12 PM »
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I have the Colormunki and the Z6200. Just for kicks I tested the following:

1. Profile using the built in Z6200 spectro
2. Canned profile supplied by HP for the paper type I was using
3. Profile using the ColorMunki + Argyll + DisplayCal GUI with a 2000 test chart sample

I did side by side comparisons of just about every type of photograph I was able to print via PS CS5. Even under a loupe I could not see any difference in the output from any of the 3 methods described above . I then looked at all three profiles in PerfX gamut viewer and they looked identical.
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