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Author Topic: What is CS !  (Read 8645 times)
Morgan_Moore
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« on: July 23, 2012, 11:01:20 AM »
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This may sound like a dumb question can someone go through the basics of CS and premier relationship

I have a license to PHotoshop CS5.5

If I get CSxx can I grade video with CS, or is premier part of the CS suite, or what!

Please tell me in baby language..

The backstory - FCP colour problems, dont like Color interface, I love FCP as an edit, but just cant work the colours consistently using FCP or Color..

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 11:34:16 AM »
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The thing is that if you don't like Color, you might end-up with the Speedgrade app wich is very similar philosophy. (it's the Premiere's color correction app)

If I remember well, you'd prefer sliders, more still-like interface. Why simply not cutting in FCP and do your grade in PS extended version?

(to use footage in PS you need the extended license, so no pp needed. Just PS ext)

But even if you do not have the ext PS, if you export to image sequence, you'll be able to grade in PS using the script tool.
After all it's not that big deal in terms of time. Each sequence or scene that you know will have the same grading can be exported to dpx, graded in ps and re-imported in the editor.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 11:40:33 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 04:02:15 PM »
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Why simply not cutting in FCP and do your grade in PS extended version?

(to use footage in PS you need the extended license, so no pp needed. Just PS ext)

But even if you do not have the ext PS, if you export to image sequence, you'll be able to grade in PS using the script tool.
After all it's not that big deal in terms of time. Each sequence or scene that you know will have the same grading can be exported to dpx, graded in ps and re-imported in the editor.

Seriously post is not my thing - I dont read about post, know about post

You are saying I can import to PS, grade and .. then what

I have no idea how to do this..
Edit I tried and am getting warnings about using 32bit not 64bit version..

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 04:26:07 PM »
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Morgan,

The IS workflow is heavy but very effective. It's the kind of workflow you'd have to do for compositing-effects in Nuke for ex.

The principle is very simple.

- First edit your clips
- lets say you have a clip on the timeline in .264 (or Prores or whatever) you'd like to grade using PS (non extended)
- export an in-out image sequence in Tiff or DPX
- you have a folder with your stills now. lets say 1500 still for ex.
- import 1 characteristical still in PS with the script enabled (so you're recording what you're doing in ps)
nota: you'd need to master the scripts in PS but it's easy.
- Apply your corrections like any still pic (the IS being a succession of still images). You can work in 16 bits or more
- stop recording the script caution: included saving and closing your image. You stop record after closing.
- Apply the script to all the other 1499 pics
- PS will automatically do that in background while you can concentrate on other tasks
- re-import the image sequence graded in your NLE, (I often convert the IS into a intermediate format because the IS can stress the editor)
- export a final master in Prores 444 or 422
- from the master, export for the web or whatever

In Nuke, high-end compositing, special effects, it's an image sequence workflow. If not it's almost impossible. You'd crash on effects if it was motion format like Prores.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owr48EDwVkc

see that these are sliders too, very much like PS
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 04:38:10 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 04:39:03 PM »
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Sounds similar to the Capture One Workflow I 'invented' but slower!

Now you have your Tiff sequence, reimport to FCP to reconnect the sound and then export as H264 , I bet the colours shift

I need to..

Edit
Grade in a suite I like
Export to final delivery medium*

I can buy new  licenses if that is required..

S

*ideally being able to control, seperate of grade, appropriate gamma for output device which might be TeeVee or Web File..

I also need to be able to go back to source

for exmaple a client will have a peek at the video and want mr X removed, or something before the final delivery
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 04:43:16 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 05:10:32 PM »
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I find the Da-Vinci or Scratch workflow for CC frankly annoying and ultimately unnecessary. But then, the color tools in the NLEs suck in terms of interface. I still don't understand (well yes I understand in fact) why when we switch in CC all we have are those little pop-up windows instead of a proper interface. But as long as they want to sell third-party app...

Because Adobe doesn't solve the prob. Yes it's integrated but you'd have to learn or Speedgrade or After-effect. More learning curves, more apps, still the same mess in the end

My best bet would be an Avid or Edius, very powerfull for broadcast and built to and for broadcast people who want fast and efficient tool to delivery, in Mac you have just the Avid's option. But if you already like FCP and don't plan to change, and you don't like Apple Color style, my best bet would be keep going FCP and a still software PS or even C1 as you tried.

ps: precisely the gamma control in Avid is the best and more serious of all the NLEs IMO. The flexibility is exemplary and allows what you want the easy way. (web, legal broadcast...)
but I understand that a complete re-learn of a new NLE is not something we want to do everyday.
http://terburg.home.xs4all.nl/Publications/601_709_RGB.pdf
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 05:27:13 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 10:20:21 PM »
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This may sound like a dumb question can someone go through the basics of CS and premier relationship

Here's my CS6 primer: http://wolfcrow.com/blog/the-adobe-cs6-guide/

Quote
I have a license to PHotoshop CS5.5

If I get CSxx can I grade video with CS, or is premier part of the CS suite, or what!

Yes, you can. Premiere is part of the CS suite. CS6 includes Speedgrade, which is spectacular. Obviously CS6 also includes After Effects - which can do just about anything. I used CS3 for an entire movie.

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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2012, 12:37:38 AM »
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Sareesh

THank you that was very close to the answer I was looking for!

Thanks Ill read on

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2012, 03:54:46 AM »
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But the prob remains very similar to the
Workflow you already have.
You'd replace fcp by pp and color by speedgrade.
The suite is great but you'll end in a very
Similar philosophy. After effect is unlimited
But don't expect ease. It's messy and
There is a learning curve.
For someone who doesn't like post-prod
(you say It) you're going to be served...

Speedgrade is exactly in the same league
As resolve or  color. Wheels etc...
So you're back in the same land.
And probably end with c1 again...

If what you are looking is a very fast
And reliable sistem, you should take a close
Look at avid. The fact it's Prety much
Standart in broadcast and cine is for a reason.
Teevee guys have generaly little time
To loose.

Yes you'd have a learning curve, but
You'll have it also in the adobe suite.
The latest versión has improved in ease
Of use. IMHO.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2012, 04:04:54 AM »
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So you cant easily take a clip from the prem timeline and grade it in a photoshop like interface

basically my typical would be

colour correct/sat
S curve

and maybe secondaries eg a light face or a dark sky

Ideal colour correction would be take a shot with a greay card, copy the value and paste it onto other clips in the TL..

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 04:10:40 AM »
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Also, somebody who runs avid
Is still highly regarded and respected
And can be a sale argument.
Here, an avid editor has more interesting work
And earns more money.
It may be exagerated but It's a fact.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 04:18:46 AM »
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I dont want to sell myself as an editor
Computer time is bad time
I just want to be able to deliver my footy in a graded edit ready format, do small projects,  or make my own works look nice

S
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 04:27:51 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 04:48:02 AM »
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So you cant easily take a clip from the prem timeline and grade it in a photoshop like interface


That I know, there is no direct link from PP to PS like there is from PP to AE or Speedgrade. That's the problem.

Maybe they enabled this but I doubt it. An inquiery is required. I might be wrong but I'm afraid I'm not.


The fact that I mentionned the Avid editing value in the market was more to transmit that you can't go wrong with it. I mean, it's probably (probably, no...it is) more demanding at first in terms of learning curve, but then it's faster. Avid is specially well featured for broadcast requierements and the software itself features everything you need without third-party apps. (masks, time wrap, CC etc...)
It's rather complex than easy, but it's pro software for pros. Adobe is great indeed but more commercial "feel" and implementation. It doesn't mean it's not powerfull, the Adobe suite is very powerfull.

But if I was a video-journalist for ex, with need of speed-efficiency-no hassles, Avid would be a natural choice. I guess it depends a lot on each one workflow and needs. I I'd shoot Red, I'd go for Adobe or Edius.
If I had time+colaborative I'd use a Da-Vinci app with a PP. If my output was more broadcast I'd go Avid, It all depends.

My sensation is that you tend to get the closest look on set (like Recuenco does, very little post-prod). So I don't really see the advantage you'd take long hours in learning a dedicated color software or an after effect.  You'd pay an Adobe license to get something in the end quite close to what you already have, being more powerfull but in the end the same paella.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 05:01:49 AM by fredjeang » Logged
stewarthemley
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 09:49:03 AM »
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I'm really happy with FCPX to Resolve. FCPX is FAST once you learn the keyboard shortcuts - doesn't take long to learn. And its key wording/sorting is awesome. (Did I actually just use that word?!)

If you don't like post (I don't either) then you probably won't want to do much and this workflow works well. Resolve looks daunting at first (what doesn't?) but it doesn't take long to make it do the basics.

And to be honest, now that I have taken the trouble to learn more about FCPX grading (from free tutorials - they're all over the web) it's surprisingly useful.

There are loads of people, some on this forum, who reckon X is not up to the job. It wasn't a year ago, but is ready for most stuff now and the upgrades are still coming thick and fast - and free. Every day I see someone say FCPX can't do something when if they actually took the trouble to check, they'd see it probably does. I've compared Prem P 6, gave it a decent try, but found it sort of old fashioned compared with X.

Someone may dive in saying it's no good. My advice, try it. No axe to grind, just hate it when people spout opinions without really knowing a program. (NOT aimed at anyone so no flames necessary!)
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fredjeang
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 10:13:07 AM »
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I think if I was in Mac I'd also give a serious look at FCPX now. Since its desastrous launch, I think they improoved it quite a lot in this time and solved a lot of limitations. The philosophy of the software is excelent. Up to what extend they made this software usable at any level? I ignore it but Stewart seems to say that they solved many of the problems. It could be worth a try.
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billy
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2012, 10:40:17 AM »
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" Every day I see someone say FCPX can't do something when if they actually took the trouble to check, they'd see it probably does. I've compared Prem P 6, gave it a decent try, but found it sort of old fashioned compared with X. "

yeah i like fcpx, the only thing i am trying to figure out is the color correction. is there a way to use a grey drop tool to click onto a macbeth chart inserted into the first frame of the scene?

can u recommend a plug in that would allow for Lightroom or C1 style color grading tools embedded inside of FCPX? Sorry to hijack this thread.
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2012, 11:44:59 AM »
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Was there EVER a worse launch than fcpx? I'd wager it cost Apple dear. Many people now question their committment to the pro world. Without the iphone/pad stuff to bail them out, they'd probably be struggling now. And it would have served them right. Crazy. Arrogant. Almost made me switch to PC. Almost.

But, they saw the writing on the wall, and more importantly the stampede to Adobe and Avid, and started pulling the stops out. Just in time - maybe. X is now on its fifth significant upgrade and almost has the features it should have started with.
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2012, 11:49:41 AM »
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Forgot to say, Motion is agreat program, stupidly inexpensive, and it's dead easy to round trip from X, using xml. Again, a bit daunting to start with but once you play with it the fear factor begins to fade.

I promise I have no connection with Big A. Just think X is genuinely innovative and so worth seeing if it fits your needs.
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2012, 11:52:56 AM »
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Ok - I'll go in a sec...

Billy, I haven't checked plugins lately but they're coming out at a pace now so there might be something.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 12:23:04 PM »
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Am I correct in thinking that x eats your files

(puts them somewhere strange)

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
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