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Author Topic: Harman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta  (Read 2604 times)
Mr. Capp
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« on: July 27, 2012, 12:33:26 PM »
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Ok, so I started printing large sheets(17x22) of the Gloss Baryta and I'm running into what I'd fear would happen, scratches. I knew this paper would be finicky
but I just wanted to see what others may have done to eliminate the pizza wheel scratches. They aren't head strikes, classic ink hitting the paper and waving up.
classic, microfine long scratch running down the middle of the print, and another partial on the left side.
Usually I had this problem in the winter printing on epson exhibition fiber but now in the humid summer, which it cannot get any more humid(58%!).
printing on a 3800
unchecked high speed,
2880(I was getting microbanding, 2880 stopped this)
paper thickness 5,
platen wider.
any suggestions? I love this paper surface more than anything so any help would be so appreciated.
-Michael
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jrsforums
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 12:40:51 PM »
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This paper has a habit of curling...both longitudinal and side edges.  Since the 3800 does not have a vacuum, the problem can be worse on it.

Have you derolled it to ensure it is lying flat?

John
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John
David Good
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 02:48:25 PM »
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Michael, I have been printing on this paper for some time now (Warmtone actually) on my 3880. My settings are the same as yours except I set the Paper Thickness to 4 and Platen Gap to Wide. The other setting which may help with the "pizza" wheel tracks is the Drying Time per Print Head Pass. I have mine at 10 (so 1 second) and have not experienced the dreaded wheel marks (I used to get them on the R2400 though). The letter size sheets do require a de-bending at the corners, but larger sheets (17x25), at least the boxes I have, do not. Perhaps the drying time setting will help, but I can't help wondering if there is an improvement in the paper feed wheels in the newer models.

Dave
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Mr. Capp
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 03:19:26 PM »
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Yes, this paper actually was really flat in the box, I do keep pressure on it when in storage as to keep/make it even more flat. Out of the box it was perfect.

I'll try the drying time adjustment.

It's funny, my first print came out perfect and I tried a second, different image and got consistent scratches, both had a similar tonal range across the print area.
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samueljohnchia
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 07:57:08 PM »
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This is my favorite paper, and also my tear-your-hair-out paper.

I've printed using 8.5x11 sheets, 13x19 inch sheets, 17 inch rolls and 24 inch rolls for about 3 years. I'm on a Canon iPF8100. I'm in hot and humid Singapore, and on a dry day the humidity is 70%, and most days are 80-100% humidity.

Printing with sheets has been the greatest nightmare. Even if the paper has stabilized to about 80% humidity, and is flat before feeding into the printer, when the printable side absorbs ink, the paper will become wavy, often parallel to the direction of the print head. And when the front end of the print begins to emerge out of the printer, the jerky paper feed motion of the printer pushing the paper forward actually causes the paper to 'flap' up and down, further increasing the risk of head strikes. My printer does not have the pizza wheels to tame the front end feed. My old iPF5000 had the drop down front feed pizza rollers, if the printer detects any flapping in the front. I would get a ruined print from those pizza wheels. Those days on the iPF5000 I would put on cotton gloves and basically use my fingers to guide the paper, and prevent it from flapping about, so the printer will not lower the pizza wheels. Unfortunately the waves still form from the paper buckling from the ink load, and I would have to set the print head height to "highest" to prevent head strikes. Now Harman Gloss is a rather thin paper for its weight (it is dense) and by setting the print head height so high, the spray from the inkjet head on the crest of the paper wave is smooth (because it is near to the spray source). However, the trough of the wave is very far away and the print area there becomes very grainy and mottled because it is very very far away from the ink head! It was deliciously frustrating because when I print images with smooth color areas like a lovely blue sky, I'll have a too obvious gradient of graininess consistent with the wave height of the paper. And still sometimes the print head will catch the edge of the sheet and leave ink stains. I can also hear 'piak! piak!' sounds as the print head collides with the paper edge when it buckles.

I resolved to use only roll paper then. Harman in rolls has direction and a sort of material memory, in that it bends in the direction of the roll and wants to bend that way. I've never noticed any waviness happening for the paper when printing from a roll, and I believe its because of the tension of the roll, plus the fact that the rest of the paper is still connected to a flat coil of paper until the printer cuts it at the end. And the paper path of the iPF8100 is such that the roll will press itself (due to its curl) onto the internal tray of the printer (the area where the print head moves back and forth as it prints), and it lies quite flat over the whole printing process. I can now set my head height to "lowest", and vacuum strength to highest. I know it sounds crazy low, but I have never had a single head strike since. No scratches parallel to the direction of the print head travel. And no uneven grainy prints.

There is another problem that I cannot solve. This paper's coating is just too fragile. I have to constantly dust the insides of the printer along the paper path to rid it of all the little particles. What happens is that as the paper is pulled along by the printer, little dust specks create streaks of hairline scratches, parallel to the paper path. If I forget to clean the printer first, I get like a thousand scratches. After cleaning I may get one or two, sometimes more if I'm not careful. And they will again appear at random, as the dust in the room settles again. I have never seen this issue with any other paper that I have printed on, and some days scarcely can believe how soft the coating is and how easily it scratches. They are very fine scratches, and ink does not cover them. Running an LED torch over the print reveals many inperfections. I am also getting a lot of holes and bumps in the coating of the latest batch of this paper. I've sent in samples to Harman/Hahnemuhle and they have been taking forever to get back to me.

Maybe others who have experience with this can chime in too.
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hanzo
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2012, 05:13:47 AM »
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I am also getting a lot of holes and bumps in the coating of the latest batch of this paper. I've sent in samples to Harman/Hahnemuhle and they have been taking forever to get back to me.

Maybe others who have experience with this can chime in too.

If you mean by holes is flaking.. I also had it before, and after two prints, I returned the box to the distributor. The current box I'm using have no problem so far. Too bad we can't get Canson in Singapore  Grin
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samueljohnchia
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2012, 08:08:19 AM »
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If you mean by holes is flaking.. I also had it before, and after two prints, I returned the box to the distributor. The current box I'm using have no problem so far.
hanzo, I have never experienced any flaking with glossy surface papers. I have definitely seen flaking with matte papers. Having holes, dents, bumps, flecks and dirt embedded in the coating is very different from flaking.
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PatrickAllen
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2012, 01:52:56 PM »
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One of the most delicate surfaces that we work with. We are only printing on the rolls and we still get fine scratches. It usually takes 2-3 prints to get a perfect print so we charge more for this specific paper. Even if you get a perfect print out of the printer it can still be very difficult to mount and or package the print without scratching the surface. Renaissance wax does coat this paper nicely and helps prevent fine scratches but this only helps after you get a scratch free print from the printer.
Best,
Patrick Allen
www.PatrickAllenPhotography.com
www.KenAllenStudios.com
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hanzo
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2012, 10:13:08 PM »
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Renaissance wax? Seriously?  Huh Grin
I use acrylic spray to protect the surface, although the result can be too glossy. It takes a bit of experimenting to get the desired finish
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samueljohnchia
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2012, 10:05:08 PM »
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One of the most delicate surfaces that we work with. We are only printing on the rolls and we still get fine scratches. It usually takes 2-3 prints to get a perfect print so we charge more for this specific paper. Even if you get a perfect print out of the printer it can still be very difficult to mount and or package the print without scratching the surface. Renaissance wax does coat this paper nicely and helps prevent fine scratches but this only helps after you get a scratch free print from the printer.
Best,
Patrick Allen

Hi Patrick, when you print on Harman and get scratches from the printer, are the scratches in the direction of the print head movement, or the paper feed path? Are you on the Epson 9800 printer?
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James Horne
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2012, 01:56:05 AM »
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I don't know if this is relevant here but I recently had to replace a box of similar paper (13x19" IGFS) due to a fine hairline scratch down the length of about half the sheets in the box.  I assumed, based on the observations of so many here in regard of pizza wheels and paper bending, that the problem was mine and only figured out late on the the piece that it was the paper.  Such was the fineness of the scratch that it was only visible when backlit with an angled light source.  But with dark ink on it became very noticeable.  At very least you should check this potential variable.
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PatrickAllen
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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2012, 09:03:14 AM »
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Hanzo: Renaissance Wax seriously. Give it a try. More info here

Samuel: We print the Harman mostly on the Epson 9900. We get the scratches both ways but the majority are in the direction of the paper feed path.

IGFS was worse then Harman so we stopped printing on it.

Best,
Patrick Allen
www.PatrickAllenPhotography.com
www.KenAllenStudios.com
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