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Author Topic: Museo Silver Rag  (Read 5074 times)
MuseoFineArt
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« on: July 30, 2012, 02:05:23 PM »
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Hi All,

As you may recall, there were posts back in February regarding the quality issues we were experiencing with Museo Silver Rag.

In late 2011, The industry experienced several cotton shortages. These shortages forced manufacturers like us to find alternative base paper suppliers to keep an ample supply of product in the marketplace. As a result, 2012 has been a very tumultuous year for the Museo Brand. We have been working through quality issues related to gloss level, white point and fiber count. After several months of trials with multiple respected paper manufactures, we have been able to secure a long term partner for consistent, high quality base paper we can depend on. The actual inkjet receptive coating, which is the most critical part, has not and will not be changing. That said, the imaging performance and archival expectations remain intact.

I want to send a special thank you to those loyal customers that stuck with us and helped us to re-qualify this great inkjet product. In the weeks and months to come, you will see Silver Rag being featured in many prominent galleries and projects!!!

For those of you that have left us, I would simply ask that you re-consider the Museo brand of media for future use. We are extremely pleased with the quality of our product and back it 100%. I am confident you will feel the same way if you give us a chance to prove it.

Please message me if you would be interested in testing a roll.

Thanks for listening,

Jennifer Chagnon
Sr. Marketing Manager
InteliCoat Technologies
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Jennifer Chagnon
Sr. Marketing Manager
InteliCoat Technologies
chichornio
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2012, 02:50:23 PM »
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I love Museo papers. Unfornately due to custom restrictions in my country, Argentina, we cannot buy your papers. I still have a couple of sheets of the best made cotton matte paper Ive printed in, the Museo Max 365grs. I hope you keep making this wonderful paper.
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MHMG
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2012, 08:01:23 PM »
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Jennifer, this is probably the worst image stability certification claim I've ever seen (and there are a lot of questionable claims out there) ... it most definitely doesn't help your cause to rejuvenate loyalty in the Museo brand.  My humble suggestion is to make this document disappear from your website!

http://www.museofineart.com/files/2013/0920/2191/StabilityCERTIFICATEsmall.pdf


kind regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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MuseoFineArt
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2012, 07:50:27 AM »
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Hi Marc,

I appreciate your feedback; however, I assure you this claim is factual. We submitted our Museo canvas, printed and then finished with Museo Enhance topcoat, to Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT).

Image permanence testing was completed, including accelerated aging and light fade. Light stability studies were conducted on two different digital prints, simulating fluorescent room illumination without glazing for approximately 100 years. For this test, cool white fluorescent light with an illumination intensity of 50 kilolux was used. The prints were exposed to the high-intensity, cool-white fluorescent light for a total of 164 days. This exposure is equivalent to 102 years in standard display conditions.

Based on the testing protocol at this respectable institute, the results concluded 100+ years achievability. The certificate you are referring to is simply a summary compilation of the RIT testing conclusion. I am happy to share these results with you in more detail offline.

Again, thank you for your feedback. It is good to see that people care enough to question the authenticity of these ratings.


Jennifer

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Jennifer Chagnon
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InteliCoat Technologies
MuseoFineArt
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2012, 07:52:36 AM »
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Thank you for your feedback Chichornio!

We are still making the 365GSM and we do sell into Argentina. I will message you with details.
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Jennifer Chagnon
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InteliCoat Technologies
Randy Carone
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 07:59:03 AM »
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So the "certification" guarantees Image Stability on obsolete printers? Just sayin'...
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 08:08:02 AM »
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The Canon and Epson printers mentioned are far from obsolete.

As stated at the bottom of the PDF, there is also testing data from Wilhelm dated 2001 on this document. At the time of that testing the older printers referenced were relevant. We have left it on there for those still using those units.

The top section of the document speaks to newer printers. There is a high cost associated with these tests. It would be a very expensive proposition to test every time a new device hits the market.

The testing is linked directly to the inks. That said, the newer the inkset, the better the results should be.

Again, I am happy to share detailed testing data
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Jennifer Chagnon
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MHMG
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 06:03:31 PM »
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Hi Marc,

I appreciate your feedback; however, I assure you this claim is factual. We submitted our Museo canvas, printed and then finished with Museo Enhance topcoat, to Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT).


I interpreted the information for the first two line items marked with a single asterisk on the certificate just as you say, notwithstanding the fact that IPI's testing protocol is a consumer photofinishing standard not particularly suitable to fine art printing applications. However, the last three items being cited in the claim have a double asterisk with reference to Wilhelm test results that were conducted well prior to the development of your company's canvas and coating, the implication being that these results apply to real coated samples using your media. The inclusion of these last three results on the certificate is disingenuous because one cannot repurpose test data, even if the samples got great scores in their own right, by assuming the inks will perform as well or better on another substrate and with some newly developed coating. In fact, media plays a significant role, and additionally, aqueous based acrylic coatings on aqueous pigmented inkjet prints can often produce poorer lightfastness results than no coating at all.  The combination of printer/ink/media AND COATING must be tested as a total system to know for certain how the inks, media, and coating interact.

This topic is about Museo Silver Rag, and it wasn't my intention to hijack the thread. Museo Silver Rag was a great paper, and hopefully Intellicoat has resolved the QA/QC issues and restored it to it's former glory.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 08:33:29 PM by MHMG » Logged
Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2012, 06:11:54 AM »
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hopefully Intellicoat has resolved the QA/QC issues and restored it to it's former glory.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
+1 to Mark's comment.  I did some color patch testing when Museo announced that they had changed paper suppliers last year and found that there was little if any measurable difference in the patch colors.  I really like printing on this paper and find it to be one of the best of the 'gloss' surface papers that I print on.  Large sheets don't curl on storage the same way that Hahnemuhle and some other brands do so head strikes are never a problem.  I'm really looking forward to the 'new' paper and trust that the issues with paper supply are long gone now.
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fetish
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2012, 09:33:50 AM »
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After the previous cotton supply and coating fiasco, it seems that museo is slowly regaining their initial quality.
Recently I had a roll with a high number of embedded defects and it was replaced immediately.

I'm slowly starting to re-integrate silver rag into my standard range of papers but i'm still gonna keep them off my superhigh networth editions till the quality control is sustained long enough that I can trust it fully again.

Having to explain to artists/curators/gallery owners why I switched paper choice in the middle of their edition run is a nightmare I never want to go thru again.

Jennifer has been extremely helpful and supportive during this entire period, and that really helped me regain faith in their products.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 02:26:56 PM »
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Museo were kind enough to send me a roll of their 'new' Silver Rag paper to test.  I'm happy to say that it performs fine in both color and B/W printing (Epson 3880).  The paper stock has the same feel as the previously sourced rag and the surface is visually unchanged.  I did run a new profile prior to printing just to be on the safe side (Argyll CMS).  I cut sheets from the 17 inch roll and made prints ranging in size from 7x10 to 15x23.  I did not see any surface defects in the sheets that I've cut so far (about 1/2 of the roll).  From my profile patch set I get a Dmax of 2.28 and a paper white L* of 96.7. 

I have always liked this paper and am glad that the problems Museo had seem to have been resolved so that I can continue to print on it.

Alan
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Paul Roark
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 09:56:27 AM »
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Please point me to the age testing procedure used by RIT.

Thank you.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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MuseoFineArt
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 10:01:32 AM »
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Paul,

I sent you a message
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Jennifer Chagnon
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MBlue72
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2012, 02:44:10 PM »
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Well, crossing my fingers, I just ordered a box of 17x22 sheets of Silver Rag. I love this paper and I sure hope the problems are, as Jennifer has indicated, behind them. And I certainly hope the "bad" product has been cleared from the supply "pipeline." I am a low-volume user and this should last a while.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread (including Jennifer!). The discussion has given me confidence to try again.

Dave
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Rand47
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 06:28:27 PM »
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Well, crossing my fingers, I just ordered a box of 17x22 sheets of Silver Rag. I love this paper and I sure hope the problems are, as Jennifer has indicated, behind them. And I certainly hope the "bad" product has been cleared from the supply "pipeline." I am a low-volume user and this should last a while.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread (including Jennifer!). The discussion has given me confidence to try again.

Dave

Dave,

Hope you were luckier than I.  Just received a box of A4 from Adorama and it is very bad.  I had a job to finish and didn't have the option to send it back.  Had to pick through the whole box of 25 sheets to end up with the 4 sheets I absolutely had to have.  Previous box (don't remember who I ordered from) was fine.

Rand
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 07:17:52 PM »
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Late to the party here, but I'm still, as of November 2012, finding Silver Rag A3 sheets with surface defects. The defects are bumps in the surface, the size of small sesame seeds, that take ink normally. It's as though there is an "inner paper layer" defect. Some sheets don't show the problem, while other sheets from the same box display 2 or 3 bumps. Is this in keeping with the quality problem referenced months ago? My supply is quite new, bought from a high-volume reseller.

John Caldwell
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MuseoFineArt
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2012, 01:54:31 PM »
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Rand/John

Please inbox me your address so I can send you each a replacement box of material. Also, please provide the lot# as I believe this may be old material.
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Jennifer Chagnon
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Rand47
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2012, 05:59:52 PM »
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Rand/John

Please inbox me your address so I can send you each a replacement box of material. Also, please provide the lot# as I believe this may be old material.

Many thanks.  PM sent.
Rand
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Rand47
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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 08:52:31 AM »
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Rand/John

Please inbox me your address so I can send you each a replacement box of material. Also, please provide the lot# as I believe this may be old material.


... Many thanks.  PM sent.
Rand

I wanted to let everyone following this thread know that Jennifer confirmed that the A4 box I received from Adorama was, indeed, old stock (from lot #) and not an issue with current production.  She's sending me a replacement box.

I'm glad to know that the problem was old inventory.  I very much like this paper.  

Thank you Jennifer.  Hopefully the product pipeline situation will clear soon.  In the meantime it is good to have a responsive contact to resolve problems.

Rand
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 08:55:03 AM by Rand47 » Logged
felix5616
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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 11:00:41 AM »
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when ordering crane museo silver rag how does one determine that they are in fact not getting paper from a problem run?
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