Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: A quiet moment  (Read 1543 times)
Robert Brummitt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« on: July 30, 2012, 11:13:54 PM »
ReplyReply

I love what I do! I volunteer my camera for the local Athletic center that gives free concerts in area. Last year I photographed this family of three boys and their mom enjoying the music.
I didn't get a models release for this photograph. And I so wanted to share it with you all. But, I was out again this year and the family walked by. I introduced myself and told them of the photograph and they kindly gave me written permission now.
Logged
michswiss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2012, 01:25:21 AM »
ReplyReply

It's kind that you asked for permission, but in the vast majority of countries a model release is only needed if the shot wasn't taken in a public setting and/or you intended to use it for commercial purposes.

One thing I do on occasion, as I know Russ does as well, is if I think I might see a person again I'll have a small print made to share with them.  Maybe you can do the same for this family.  I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 01:27:08 AM by michswiss » Logged

Robert Brummitt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2012, 09:41:00 AM »
ReplyReply

I did give the family 4 prints of this photograph and of another that I will share later.
I had spoken with several photographer friends and the consensus was if I wanted to use the photograph or enter it for any contests, I had to get permission. Which I lucked out this year and got it.
Thank you for looking and for your advice. It's much appreciated!
Logged
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 5747



WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2012, 10:26:24 AM »
ReplyReply

Robert, you haven't let us know what country you're in, but if you're in the U.S., you need to read Bert Krages's Legal Handbook for Photographers. You can get a copy for $15.37 from Amazon. It's well worth having on your shelf if you're doing street photography. You also need to get a copy of Krages's "The Photographer's Right." It's a downloadable PDF one-page summary of the U.S. legal situation for photographers. You can print it and keep it with you in case some rent-a-cop decides to hassle you. You can download a copy from http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm. Bert's an attorney who's also an ardent photographer. The page I gave you the URL for also has links to info on the law in the UK, Australia, and Portugal.

I'm not in a position to give legal advice, even though my second son is an attorney whose specialty is intellectual property, but if you check, you'll find that in the U.S. at least, you don't need a model release for a street photograph provided you use it in an editorial or fine art context. Sounds as if your photographer friends need to read Krages too.
Logged

Robert Brummitt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2012, 12:12:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks Russ.
This is funny. I live near Portland, Oregon and for a number of years I ran a photography organization and one of the members was Bert. I had him and several lawyers come and give talks on Photographers Rights. the law, copy rights, and what we needed to protect ourselves. Bert and the others would listen to the other members questions and give great advice. I think I did ask Bert about the photograph here. He agreed with you but another lawyer-photographer friend said she was concern that the image had children in it. So, I held back because I have children myself.
A noted street photographer said the same thing that if it was shown as art then I'm clear but again I wanted to absolutely clear with the parents. That same street photographer I mentioned used a photo of a little girl in a pool with a older gentleman on his website. On second look I noticed the girl was my daughter and I wasn't the older gentleman. It didn't bother me but my wife was a little concern. I explained to her, other then she and I and the photographer, who would recognize her?
Back to Bert, I think I have a copy of his book. I'll have to read it again.
Thanks
R
Logged
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 5747



WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 12:45:22 PM »
ReplyReply

It's always worthwhile to check your local laws, but as far as I know, in public places kids have no more expectation of privacy than adults have. I've been working on a book on our local penny arcade for two summers -- this is the third. Last year after I made one shot a woman accosted me and "explained" that I needed permission to shoot a picture of a child. I suggested that there was no such law. She then advised me that the school board had passed a law. I swallowed my laughter and told her that I'd been mayor of the town for six years and on Council for two years before that and I'd never been told the school board could pass laws.

On the other hand it always pays to be careful, and it certainly pays to be gentle with peoples' feelings. Kids don't care if you photograph them, but their parents may. As Jennifer pointed out I've always tried to involve the parents in a shoot that includes kids, and I've always tried to get a copy of the picture to the parents -- usually by email, but sometimes with a physical print. Evidently she does the same thing, and you did it too. It makes everybody happy.
Logged

Robert Brummitt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 02:55:23 PM »
ReplyReply

Yep, I agree that you should involve the parents.
This last weekend I photographed a "Party in the park" event for the same Rec center. I was photographing a child climbing a rock wall. The parent first asked me to send a copy to his email. No problem. Then he asked me what the photos were for and I explained that the center uses them for their Facebook page and for future advertisement. He then asked me to delete the photos after I sent him his set. No problem. It's fair to the parent. The center will have plenty to spare.
Another time, I photographed a young girl who had her face painted up like a butterfly. When I stepped close for the photograph her father came on strong, very protective. I smiled and asked he would hold up his daughter up and I'll take a photo of the two together. He smiled, relaxed and I snapped the photograph.
So playing safe and up front is best.



Logged
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 5747



WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 02:59:06 PM »
ReplyReply

...I explained that the center uses them for their Facebook page and for future advertisement."

Robert, That's a horse of a different color. If you're going to use anything like that in an ad or a promotion you need a model release.
Logged

Robert Brummitt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2012, 03:16:31 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm not. The Center is using the images on their Facebook. I know that the family above was also contacted by the Center to use for advertisement. I also do photos of their volunteers and staff working with the public. I think most of the photos are for in house work and for Facebook. This would be a great question for Bert. If you attend one of these events, on their property, are your rights to be photographed and used to advertise future events waved? I'll ask him!
What was interesting I was walking with the Oregonian photographer and he would talk be some before and explain who he was then do some photos. Now he was editorial.
Logged
Robert Brummitt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2012, 05:09:06 PM »
ReplyReply

I just spoke with my other lawyer photographer friend. We talked about the lectures we had with Bert and there was another lawyer. My friend thought that Bert was too liberal and the other too conservative. But, she agreed with everyone that it was a good thing to a models release for the photograph. She said that law changes and being cautious is best.
Logged
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 5747



WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2012, 05:18:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Well, it doesn't hurt to be cautious. But suppose you're doing street photography. Does your attorney friend really think that a street photographer can get model releases for his shots? If she does, she needs to do some checking. Yes laws change, but there are a couple connections with the U.S. Constitution that pretty much nail down your right to shoot from a public right of way -- in the U.S. at least.
Logged

Robert Brummitt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2012, 05:32:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Yes she errs on the conservative side. But, I agree with her on children. Play it safe. I don't know much on Street photography. I tend to avoid that altogether. I do remember that some rights we have have been curtailed by the 911 events. That came out from the talks with Bert and the other lawyer. How much? I don't know.
Logged
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 5747



WWW
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2012, 08:24:48 PM »
ReplyReply

You can be pretty sure that if the curtailments run counter to the first amendment they won't stand for long.
Logged

Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad