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Author Topic: The best camera is...  (Read 12082 times)
alban
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« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2012, 01:32:54 PM »
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Hmm, interesting. What would be the differences between the Mamiya 7II and a Alpa TC?

What would the lens options look like? Are we still in Hasselblad quality territory?

Thanks to everyone with helpful responses. I didn't realize this would become such a volatile thread.

Should this maybe become an Olympic sport ? Or has it ?

In any case, with the Alpa you will need a digital back .The platform per se will not record images.
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gerald.d
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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2012, 01:43:31 PM »
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The best camera is?...

The one you didn't buy.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2012, 01:45:21 PM »
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Hi Fred, thank you. Reliability is important, as I may only be able to afford one digital back.

The digital backs are not the problem.

Reliability issues are with camera bodies and some of the lenses.
There are also problems with functions freezing or the camera software hanging up.
Shutters dying in lenses and bodies.

I gave up on the Phase One DF because of camera freezes and controls freezing.
Pull battery and everything comes back. I just could not put up with it happening
on set with a subject under the lights.

Similar issues with Hasselblad. Pick up the camera and autofocus on the 100mm would not work.
Happened on several rentals. Take lens off, battery out... wait.... repeat... etc etc.

I think this has a lot to do with the modular nature of these cameras.
There is a lot to be said for cameras like the Pentax 645D.

That said Hasselblad is very quick and responsive to problems and has fast repair turnaround.
I can't say good things about Phase One customer service, but that's another story.

You should definitely wait until Photokina and see what is going on with the main MF vendors.

Phase One is way over due with a DF replacement. They really make brilliant backs, but the camera is junk in comparison.
Phase has already made industrial cameras and repro cameras. I think there is a chance that they will present a new body.

Hasselblad will be making some kind of big announcement at Photokina, but it may be just Hasselblad logo on a smaller camera.

Pentax my be coming out with a higher res 645D now that it has been under Ricoh's wings for a while.

While reliability is an issue it's also feasible to add a Nikon d800E as a side kick to a fine tech camera with a top of the line digital back.
Both would complement each other quite well.  The Linhof Techno is a gem



Me personally I ditched MF digital for a combination of three systems.

35mm DSLR Nikon D800./D800E
6x8cm Film camera Fuji gx680 ....
8x10 inch film  (and paper negative) camera Toyo with Schneider and Rodenstock lenses. .... bought for pennies
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FredBGG
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« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2012, 01:55:06 PM »
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For colour?

8x10 is still the best IMHO.

Just the look of the lenses is hard to beat.

A friend of mine with deep pockets and is a director of photography working with state of the art still and motion picture
digital still prefers a 4x5 film camera to anything digital out there. Actually I know quite a few digital directors of Photography that
shoot film for their stills.

You can also consider film as "digital". There are many advantages to shooting film and then taking it into digital post.

It's also cool to shoot hifi with fine grain film and then throw in a paper negative and shoot a totally different look
with the same camera.

I am also experimenting with direct to positive paper. Each image being unique. Interesting in the fine art world.
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Captian Light
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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2012, 01:57:55 PM »
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The digital backs are not the problem.

Reliability issues are with camera bodies and some of the lenses.
There are also problems with functions freezing or the camera software hanging up.
Shutters dying in lenses and bodies.

I gave up on the Phase One DF because of camera freezes and controls freezing.
Pull battery and everything comes back. I just could not put up with it happening
on set with a subject under the lights.

Similar issues with Hasselblad. Pick up the camera and autofocus on the 100mm would not work.
Happened on several rentals. Take lens off, battery out... wait.... repeat... etc etc.

I think this has a lot to do with the modular nature of these cameras.
There is a lot to be said for cameras like the Pentax 645D.

That said Hasselblad is very quick and responsive to problems and has fast repair turnaround.
I can't say good things about Phase One customer service, but that's another story.

You should definitely wait until Photokina and see what is going on with the main MF vendors.

Phase One is way over due with a DF replacement. They really make brilliant backs, but the camera is junk in comparison.
Phase has already made industrial cameras and repro cameras. I think there is a chance that they will present a new body.

Hasselblad will be making some kind of big announcement at Photokina, but it may be just Hasselblad logo on a smaller camera.

Pentax my be coming out with a higher res 645D now that it has been under Ricoh's wings for a while.

While reliability is an issue it's also feasible to add a Nikon d800E as a side kick to a fine tech camera with a top of the line digital back.
Both would complement each other quite well.  The Linhof Techno is a gem



Me personally I ditched MF digital for a combination of three systems.

35mm DSLR Nikon D800./D800E
6x8cm Film camera Fuji gx680 ....
8x10 inch film  (and paper negative) camera Toyo with Schneider and Rodenstock lenses. .... bought for pennies

Very informative! Thank you. I will indeed be watching Photokina before diving into the market. There seems something very gimmicky about the Phase One system. You charge 10-40K for a sensor and only offer up a mediocre body...seems like their priorities are off.

What kind of lens options do you get with the techno?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 02:22:49 PM by Captian Light » Logged

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Captian Light
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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2012, 02:00:33 PM »
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8x10 is still the best IMHO.

Just the look of the lenses is hard to beat.

A friend of mine with deep pockets and is a director of photography working with state of the art still and motion picture
digital still prefers a 4x5 film camera to anything digital out there. Actually I know quite a few digital directors of Photography that
shoot film for their stills.

You can also consider film as "digital". There are many advantages to shooting film and then taking it into digital post.

It's also cool to shoot hifi with fine grain film and then throw in a paper negative and shoot a totally different look
with the same camera.

I am also experimenting with direct to positive paper. Each image being unique. Interesting in the fine art world.

Very interesting. Is there a good resource for examples of 8x10 and 4x5 film photographs? Perhaps a post/thread from LL?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2012, 02:54:59 PM »
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Hi,

Have you seen this: http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2011/12/big-camera-comparison/

Best regards
Erik

Very interesting. Is there a good resource for examples of 8x10 and 4x5 film photographs? Perhaps a post/thread from LL?
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evgeny
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« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2012, 03:10:22 PM »
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The best medium format DSLR camera today is Hasselblad H4D.
Period.
The best lenses for H4D are: 28mm, 50mm II, 120mm II and 100mm, 35-90mm zoom and probably HTS 1.5 tilt and shift adapter.

Evgeny
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Captian Light
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2012, 03:26:16 PM »
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The best medium format DSLR camera today is Hasselblad H4D.
Period.
The best lenses for H4D are: 28mm, 50mm II, 120mm II and 100mm, 35-90mm zoom and probably HTS 1.5 tilt and shift adapter.

Evgeny

Please elaborate.

Would you take it to Antarctica?
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wildlightphoto
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« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2012, 03:27:24 PM »
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... I need a system that has the least distortion, the most sharpness, and usable in the outdoor environment....

The Leica S2 is weather sealed when used with the Leica S lenses.  Not a huge lens selection (yet) but Hasselblad H lenses including T/S can be used with full function through Leica's H-to-S adapter.  Pentax 645D is also weather sealed, but if you want the least distortion and most sharpness the Leica S lenses will be very difficult to beat.

I know of at least one photographer who took his S2 to Antarctica and was delighted with its performance in this enviornment.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 03:33:08 PM by wildlightphoto » Logged
kers
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« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2012, 03:28:04 PM »
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The best medium format DSLR camera today is Hasselblad H4D.
Period.
Evgeny
period... what period?
please explain...?
because this thread sounds a bit like     'Bach is better than Mozart'...
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2012, 03:33:31 PM »
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The 50/80/120mm(macro) prime are all very sharp too, but I used the 35-90 zoom on a friend's H4D-60, and was very impressed at how sharp it was(not as much as the primes IMO, just a tad less) compared to the 35/50/80 primes. But on prints 16x20 and under, I'd probably not be able to tell the difference.

Hmm, it's f/4-5.6. That's a serious limitation for some kinds of work.
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Captian Light
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« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2012, 03:38:21 PM »
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The Leica S2 is weather sealed when used with the Leica S lenses.  Not a huge lens selection (yet) but Hasselblad H lenses including T/S can be used with full function through Leica's H-to-S adapter.  Pentax 645D is also weather sealed, but if you want the least distortion and most sharpness the Leica S lenses will be very difficult to beat.

I know of at least one photographer who took his S2 to Antarctica and was delighted with its performance in this enviornment.

The S2 looks like a wonderful camera, but 22K for a body!?

I wonder how the Leica lenses compare to the Hassy's?
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wildlightphoto
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« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2012, 03:45:59 PM »
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I wonder how the Leica lenses compare to the Hassy's?

There are differences in character that aren't easily quantified so there's some subjectivity involved in comparing them, but those who have compared them using the H-to-S adapter on the S2 body find the S lenses are typically sharper, especially at the wider apertures.  Comparing S lenses on the S2 with H lenses on the H4D introduces additional variables but it's a valid comparison if those are the systems you'd consider using.  In a print the S2 with S lenses have a bit less of an advantage compared with the H4D and H lenses.

Best to find a dealer who has both systems and try for yourself.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 03:48:42 PM by wildlightphoto » Logged
evgeny
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« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2012, 03:46:59 PM »
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Please elaborate.

Would you take it to Antarctica?

I would not take any medium format digital equipment to a place with hard weather conditions, including beach, desert, and cold locations, unless it is a top dollar paid work.
But it's just me.
Evgeny
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yaya
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« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2012, 03:52:16 PM »
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I will indeed be watching Photokina before diving into the market.

Captain, perhaps a few days off work in September and a trip to Cologne is all you really need...

In One day you can hold all these cameras in your hands and get a feel for their handling, see how they work, get a rundown of the various configurations and options and come away with some shiny brochures and perhaps with a shiny new camera as well...who knows you might even choose that one you currently think you dislike the most?Huh

Seriously...do you really expect to form an educated opinion by listening to a bunch of geezers (myself included) driven by their own (somewhat limited) experiences, agendas and biases? I mean come on!!!

Looking forward to seeing you in hall 9.1 at the messe on September 18th Wink
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FredBGG
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« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2012, 03:53:54 PM »
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The S2 looks like a wonderful camera, but 22K for a body!?

I wonder how the Leica lenses compare to the Hassy's?

Leica S2 has reliability issues and service takes for ever... experience of a friend of mine that owns two of them.

Also it's barely medium format. 33x44mm sensor... not really much bigger than 35mm

With 35mm being so close to MFD today I think that considering anything that is not full frame is rather pointless.
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Captian Light
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« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2012, 04:02:26 PM »
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Thanks everyone for the informative and helpful responses! I cannot wait for Photokina! Going to be some very interesting developments.

The search continues!

CL
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wildlightphoto
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« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2012, 04:05:36 PM »
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With 35mm being so close to MFD today I think that considering anything that is not full frame is rather pointless.

There's a discussion of that question here:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-s2-forum/222581-nikon-d800e-vs-leica-s2.html
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2012, 04:45:46 PM »
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Hi,

Lloyd Chambers did a controlled shootout between the S2 and the Nikon D800 and found that the Nikon was better.

My understanding is that the Nikon was focused using live view while the Leica was focus bracketed.

The test is here: http://diglloyd.com/prem/prot/DAP/NikonD800/compare-LeicaS2-mosaic.html

Best regards
Erik


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