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Author Topic: Mamiya 645 AFD III - DM22, Which lenses??  (Read 4480 times)
pemihan
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« on: August 04, 2012, 10:48:07 AM »
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Hi,

I have a Mamiya 645 AFD III, DM22 kit on the way, including a Mamiya 80mm lens.
This is going to be my first experience into medium format, coming from Canon 1Ds mkIII where my most used lens is the 24mm TS-E II for landscape.

I am looking into lenses to use with the Mamiya, but have no idea what I can use and what I can't. Of course I know I can use the AF lenses which is on the market now but then there's Z lenses and C lenses and what not... I don't mind using older manual lenses as long as the image quality is top notch. What I need the most is a 35mm and a tilt shift. Also wouldn't mind a somewhat longer lens, maybe 3-400mm.

So here's my question: Which type lenses can I use on the above system?

Thanks
Peter
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 01:38:26 PM by pemihan » Logged
free1000
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 06:05:13 AM »
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The 22Mp chip will respond well to good lenses, better to invest in a small number of good optics and move the tripod.

I've never tried the Mamiya shift because I heard it wasn't great.

The zoom lenses can be surprisingly good.  For me the 55-110 zoom has been a useful lens and I've exhibited images up to 50"x40" that I took with it, and there was plenty of detail.  Can be less good at some focal lengths and apertures.

I also found the 105-210 zoom to be very good as well.

I've a lot of trouble getting precise focus with longer manual lenses.
 
My own setup is AFD-II and Aptus 75. But I'm sure the same principles hold for the 22Mp chip.  Mirror up,  cable release etc.   
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 09:06:03 PM »
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For a 22 mpx back any of the Mamiya lenses will be fine.
I particularly like the 55-110mm and the 105-210mm also
My 35mm compliments the wide end but be careful the quality varies a lot on that lens.
The 80mm 1.9 is a lot of fun too
Marc
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Jason Denning
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 02:15:35 AM »
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I use a 22mp back on an older manual lens only Mamiya 645 Pro and would say just don't get the 35mm, I also didn't like my 105-210 zoom quality of the copy I had, other than that all the other lenses are great, especially the 24mm fish eye, 45mm, 55mm, 50mm shift, 80mm, 120mm macro, 150mm f2.8. The manual 300mm lens is ok but probably better off getting a good 150 and a 2x extender.

Jason
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pemihan
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 11:33:29 AM »
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Thanks guys...
So far I got a 50mm f4 Shift on the way and just got a good deal on a 55-110mm f4.5 which I can test and return for a full refund if I don't like it...

Peter
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 07:12:16 PM »
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The 35mm that I have is the AF version and some copies are quite good
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
mediumcool
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 04:40:21 AM »
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So far I got a 50mm f4 Shift on the way …

I have one, and it is excellent, but with a touch of simple barrel distortion. I also have the 110 and 210 lenses, which are very good—bokeh on the 210 is very good; 110 not quite so good.
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gerald.d
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 05:37:15 AM »
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For a 22 mpx back any of the Mamiya lenses will be fine.
I particularly like the 55-110mm and the 105-210mm also
My 35mm compliments the wide end but be careful the quality varies a lot on that lens.
The 80mm 1.9 is a lot of fun too
Marc

Another vote for the 80/1.9

http://500px.com/photo/7830833

Some of these old lenses are amazing value if you shop around.

Peter -

I can also recommend the 50 shift, 200/2.8 and 300/2.8.

You should check out Jack's great post on getdpi that discusses a lot of the older lenses:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/lens-accessory-reviews/15710-mamiya-lens-overview.html

Bryan Hirschfeld's blog is also worth a read:

http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/

Regards,

Gerald.
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Isak Bergwall
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 04:56:40 PM »
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It looks like alot of People are disapointed with the 35mm for mamiya/phase one. Is there an alternative and is it the manual focused 35 mm that is bad or all of them?

Thank you for your help
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mediumcool
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 05:25:36 PM »
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It looks like alot of People are disapointed with the 35mm for mamiya/phase one. Is there an alternative and is it the manual focused 35 mm that is bad or all of them?

The 35s vary in corner sharpness mostly (seems to be caused by misassembly), though the optical design is pretty much unchanged for many years; if you buy an AF model, you can correct the considerable moustache distortion in Capture One, and sharpen the edges as well.

I have a 35N manual focus lens with multi-coating that performs well-enough if I straighten pix with PTLens, and add edge sharpening. Not a stellar lens in any configuration! You could try a Hasselblad 40mm or the well-regarded Bronica 40mm PS lens; both mount via adapters with manual focus and stop-down.

[Added considerable]
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pemihan
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2012, 03:18:44 AM »
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Again thanks for all your input.
I tried out the 55-110 AF yesterday, primarily at f12/14/16 where I will be using the most and it looked really good, so I think I'll hold onto it.
My 50mm shift will arrive in a couple of days, I'll keep you updated when I have had a chance to test it.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 12:10:55 PM »
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Again thanks for all your input.
I tried out the 55-110 AF yesterday, primarily at f12/14/16 where I will be using the most and it looked really good, so I think I'll hold onto it.
My 50mm shift will arrive in a couple of days, I'll keep you updated when I have had a chance to test it.


good one of my favorite and most used lenses with the AFD II /P30, P45+
Marc
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 06:25:01 AM »
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I have a DM22 and the Mamiya 150mm f/2.8 and it's a dream lens!  I shot all my portraits and headshots with it and none of my Nikon gear can touch the results (well, ok, it's a subtle difference, but it's very noticeable to me and even my girlfriend who is not a very serious photographer at all).

I'd also really recommend an 80mm - I got great results from the plain 80mm AF (non D).

I have a great 35mm and sold it - I've been kicking myself ever since.  I tried one out recently in a face to face transaction and the corners were positively mush. Sad  I have no idea how I'm going to find a good one now...  I'm likely going to get a 45mm and try stitching a lot...

Cheers, Don
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mediumcool
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 08:21:43 AM »
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I've never tried the Mamiya shift because I heard it wasn't great.

Untrue in ME.
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ondebanks
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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 11:41:17 AM »
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I have a 645 AFD and a 16.7MP square back (9 micron pixels like your DM22, just 25% narrower in sensor size).

I mostly shoot my lenses at or close to wide open. So I'm particularly sensitive to aberrations and such.

I also use the 55-110AF zoom. It's the only AF lens that really appeals to me. The 55mm end is surprisingly prime-like in quality. The 110mm end is softer wide open but sharpens up quickly a stop or two down. Bokeh seems good throughout the range.

Other than that, I use the manual focus primes - they're sometimes faster than their AF counterparts, and they do double-duty on my 5DII (which you can't do with the AF lenses).

* 24mm fisheye - one runs out of superlatives! Super sharp, across the whole image, even wide open (beware of colour moire with those fat pixels!).

* 35mm N - mine is a good copy.  Central sharpness is excellent at all apertures, but the design (from the mid 1970s)  fundamentally has off-axis astigmatism and field curvature; nothing you can do about it, except stop well down if it bothers you. I suspect that some of the people who complain of getting a poor sample are just misinterpreting this off-axis performance. If it is symmetrically poor in your testing, it's probably just the way it is. [I tested my lens on a bank of young trees parallel to my house, about 70 feet away. Wide open, the trees in the centre were sharp and aliasing. At the sides of the frame, the trees were noticeably oof....but things in my garden about 15 feet away were sharp! That's field curvature. In some situations it can be exploited to good effect.]

* 45mm C -  I used have an original 70's 45mm C lens long before my MFDB days, and it behaved like the 35mm: very sharp centrally even wide open, noticeably astigmatic in the 645 film corners.

* 55mm N - extremely crisp lens across the whole image plane from f5.6 down (or from f4 down on my 5DII's crop). But spherical aberration at f2.8 - I don't know if that's sample variation or a design fallout. The symmetry and stop-down behaviour makes me suspect that it's in the design. This and the 45mm were optically reformulated in the mid-80s, but the 35mm was not. This leads me to believe that the 1980s reformulations led to a systematic rebalancing of the wideangles' performance: losing the excellent wide open centre, gaining better edges.  Someday I'll pick up a 45mm N, and maybe a 55mm C, to test this theory further.

* 80/1.9 C - unique lens. One of the main reasons I got a Mamiya in the first place, 20 years ago. Excellent performer too: what the 55mm does going from f2.8->f4->f5.6, the 80mm does going from f1.9->f2.8->f4.

* 110/2.8 N - great little portrait lens. Doesn't have the extra stop of the 80/1.9, but pretty much matches it in performance otherwise (at f2.8, the 80/1.9 has a slight edge, but at f4 there's nowt between them). Nice bokeh. Can sometimes be found as incredible bargains - mine was $55. People don't seem to buy this lens, and for the life of me I can't figure out why.

[BTW, other adaptable lenses to consider in this range are the Pentax67 105/2.4 and Hasselblad 110/2.]

* 150/3.5 C and 210/4 N - used these (mainly the 150) in my film days; can't comment about them on a DB. I got some great shots with them (the 150mm on full 645 is like the 110mm on a cropped DB). Both exhibit very even sharpness across the image plane. The 210/4 had a mild illumination "hot spot" in the centre (i.e. it didn't have a simple roll-off to the corners). This mattered in astrophotography, but probably wouldn't matter anywhere else.

* 200/2.8 APO - best lens I've ever used. So good, I also use it as a high magnification telescope.

[I used to say that you'd have to pry this lens from my cold, dead hands. That was until 3 weeks ago, departing on our holidays to France, when my warm, slippery hands and an inadequately locked Canon adapter let it drop 20 feet, from the 10th to the 8th deck of a car ferry!  Shocked Shocked  Cry Luckily, no-one was hurt, and amazingly, the optics were not broken - the huge metal 2nd lens hood took the worst of the blow and dented massively as it bounced off a metal railing. Mechanically it needs quite a bit of work, and optically it needs realignment, but I think it'll be ok. Any suggestions on where to send it (preferably UK/Europe) would be appreciated!]

* 300mm: I use an adapted CZJ MC Sonnar 300/4, which is a fine lens - great bokeh, no sharpness variation from centre to corner, but naturally for a 3 inch wide lens made of traditional glasses, there is chromatic aberration wide open. I aim to replace it in time with the 300/2.8 APO, which should share the exalted characteristics of the 200/2.8. The 300/5.6 N is said to be very good (better than the 210/4 N), but f5.6 is too slow for me in a tele lens.

* 2x N teleconverter: superbly matched to the 200/2.8 APO. This actually improves its performance as a telescope. Cannot be used on lenses shorter than the 140mm however, as its front group protrudes into the lens it is coupled to. If you want a 2x TC for say the 80mm or 110mm lenses, get a Vivitar one.

Hope there's some food for thought in there.

Ray
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pemihan
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2012, 01:53:53 AM »
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Thanks again guys.
Ray, thanks for the extensive writeup...

I got the 50mm shift and have been testing it a bit, it look like a really great lens, although not as wide as I would have liked but nor much to do about that, I knew that going in :-)
It's sharp with great contrast and colors, definitely a keeper.

Also just got a 35mm AF, haven't really had the time to thoroughly test it, but so far it looks good. A bit less contrast and saturation than the 50mm shift, but it seems sharp across the frame when stopped down.

Peter
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