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Author Topic: Camera equipment and HD filming for newbie  (Read 18642 times)
adrjork
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« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2012, 12:58:37 PM »
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Wait a minute guys... If I understand correctly, Mr. Morgan_Moore you say that Blackmagic Cinema Camera is better thatn hacked GH2??? I'm really curious: could you describe the reasons of this opinion? (Because it seems that in web nobody likes that camera!)

@fredjeang: yes I've seen your links and I admit that GH2 videos seem more precise than 5D2... Yes I'll use post but I usually avoid de-noise. Obviously I'd prefer to spend 700 and not 3200 for the camera body! It would be fantastic. And again: the GH2's no-moire results are Amazing. But comparising GH2 vs 5D3 tests give different results, and I remain with my doubts.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2012, 02:03:05 PM »
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You are falling in the same trap than a lot of people,
With sensors and low noise and I can't blame you
Because internet is full of these bullshit.

I've been assisting a few ww photographers and I can tell
You that none are concern by those factors and they would
Work with any CAM.

You're new to video and of I understand want to do indy.
Well, get a gh2 or the fs100, hack it and with the money saved invert in
Good glasses because it's a life investment and has dramatic
Impact on the iq.

Then, learn to work with the limitations of your gear. You
Won't learn with an alexa. The gh2 is an unforgiving cam.

Stop thinking too much about having a 100 isos output at 10.000 isos
With a candle. Learn to produce great content with a CAM
Like the gh2. The CAM is nothing, focus in producing good
Content with any CAM, a red One won't help until you'd get experience.

You really need to free your mind from gear, start with small
Budgets, and learn to be really good. It will take many years and a lot
Of commitment. Forget to turn around in circles trying
To get the best possible equipment because it will always distract and frustrate  
but center on creativity and Content.

Forget about codecs, bitrates, sensor sizes, avid vs premiere, 4k,
And so on. You'll have time to deal with those bullshit later
And beleive me, it's Boring like hell.

None of the great Masters i've met have ever read a cam testing.
They just work.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 04:57:27 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2012, 02:46:42 PM »
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Wait a minute guys... If I understand correctly, Mr. Morgan_Moore you say that Blackmagic Cinema Camera is better thatn hacked GH2??? I'm really curious: could you describe the reasons of this opinion? (Because it seems that in web nobody likes that camera!)

It doesn't even exist so how can people like it or not!

Simply the BMD is a raw shooter. You know your stills right?

Well H264 video is like shooting a jpg 2, hacking a GH2 might make it like a jpg 4 or 6, but that is nothing on a raw file, nothing.

But the BMD will scary amounts of data,
"RAW 2.5K fits about 30 minutes of 24p video on a 256 GB"
.. then you open it up to tiff Smiley

The BMD will need external power that will cost you $2g
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/625113-REG/PAG_PAL95EK3_V_Lok_Power_Kit.html
You will need an SDi not HDMI monitor
Also.. it has a 'flaw' in that it has a sensor smaller than MFT and a canon lense mount - buying a wide will be near impossible, because wide is 9mm
It is no GH2, its big scary tool, and a gen one version too - so expect software glitches et al.
But the file will probably be awesome

So as a first buy that is not really the thing or maybe it is

Video colour grading is a horrid activity, raw is a pleasure, maybe you should be the first ever video shooter who says
H264? Whats that ? I only shoot raw.

I mean a typical video file, hack or no hack is a joke if you are used to doing a file in C1 from a D3, 5d2 or Blad.

But a GH2, its a no brainer, get it learn, play, i doesnt cost anything (yep video is like sailing .. stand on deck throw $100 bills overboard) and whatever, it will be a great B camera for video or stills camera or the wife or kids, it will not be wasted cash..

S






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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2012, 02:56:18 PM »
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and get off the web, buy a camera tommorow, anything and shoot

Shoot some movies..

Wife, Making Coffee.
Wife Making coffee 2, 345678910
Kids walk in the park 1-20

Get them on the computer (no mean task)

Cut them, they must make sense, you will learn so much, begining middle, end,  maybe you hate making movies

And cut them again, make two cuts, 60seconds, and 15 seconds, not 60.05 or 59.50, 60, with the same footage.

Dont mess about, make them good, give your self no excuses once you can shoot, Coffee, its pretty similar to shoot Bond

S
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 03:09:56 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Hywel
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« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2012, 05:00:43 PM »
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Completely agree with Sam.

Get off the web and get shooting, then get editing. Nothing will improve your shooting technique faster than cutting the crappy footage you got together and trying to make it sing.

Any camera will do for that. Hell, you may well already own one (eg iPhone) which will allow you to get started, although the more manual control you have the more you can learn because you have to take more decisions.

If you spend significant money, spend it on stuff that will outlast the camera: a good fluid-head video tripod, a decent mic (plus external recorder if necessary), boom pole (use it on a C-stand if you're a one man band), good glass and some basic lighting kit. Buy a cheap camera and good supporting gear- the camera will be superceded in a couple of years anyway but glass will last for decades if you invest.

Buy a GH2, a few dinky Lumix lenses or 17-55mm Nikon f/2.8 and an adaptor, hack it and go for it. Or grab a second-hand HVX200 or cheap dSLR and learn with that. You'll soon learn what things are important to you for what you shoot and how you like to shoot it, and buy kit that serves those needs.  

It is easy to get bewitched by the marketing claims of different cameras, but until you've shot a good few dozen things you won't know if 120 frames per second is something you'll use every day, or something you'll never touch. (I like having 50 fps overcrank because it makes girls look beautiful when they move, but 300 fps I doubt I'd ever use).  You won't know if you need to shoot at ISO 6400 or whether you find you can always kick in a few redhead lights and shoot at ISO 400 on your shoots. Will you actually see the benefits of a mattebox and filters, or will they just slow you down (in which case you might be better off with an agile camera like an AF100 or C300 with built-in ND filters).

Most important of all - spend some time shooting what you want to shoot, for fun, and edit it together into something you can't wait to show people.

Cheers, Hywel.

 
P.S. and if you are planning on dropping a significant wedge of cash on anything, see if you can hire it for a day before you buy. Lots of times the only way to really see how well some techie kit will support the sort of shoots you want to do is to shoot with it.



« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 05:04:22 PM by Hywel » Logged
adrjork
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« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2012, 05:09:55 PM »
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Ahahah... Thanks guys! Really a lot! You are both angels with opposite temperaments! Like Eusebius and Florestan (you know Schumann's characters? I'm a pianist and Schumann is my favorite piano-composer.)

Well you are right: just do it! You know, it's true I'm afraid by the gear because I know that my budget is one and one only, and once gone well it's gone. So I try to plan the best possible choice. That's all.

But now, let's say GH2: to hack it is sufficient to download a special firmware and install it, isn't it? And could it be done throug OSX? Or windows only? I've seen a lot of link about this, but I know that you Mr. fredjeang are an Expert, so could you tell me an updated link about "hacking GH2 for dummies" for me, please?

Thanks a lot guys!
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2012, 06:22:58 PM »
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Hell, you may well already own one (eg iPhone)

I think there is great value to shooting a few Iphone projects, seriously.

The lower the wall to getting a shot the better.

I take great store in (and I am lucky to have him) my chum who works for the BBC

He was a print writer, then moved to radio, then was given a camera.

He is a full time professional shooter, yet his imaging skills are minimal.

Basically he uses a Z1, 90% on wide, AF.

Being wide, he gets in close with his microphone.

The thing is he is master at construction of a shot sequence and a story and can frame a simple static image.

I broke apart one of my 'efforts' here http://www.dslr4real.tv/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=109&Itemid=1

One can note that there is no need for two cameras on an interview if you get enough footage NOT showing the lips of the speaker.

S


« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 06:28:52 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
fredjeang
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« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2012, 06:35:09 PM »
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I think that the real hack expert here is Bern Caughey, he knows way more than me about the hacks and currently work in a production house in LA.

Well, about if it works with Mac I guess it does. I'm on PC and my Mac have more dust than the soil of death valley. I sincerely ignore if for Mac it's the same but it should be.

I have no link for dummies because the system is really as simple as 2+2=4 but there should be some things in the internet.

There is the software here:  http://www.gh1-hack.info/wiki/PToolSoftware

read the instructions, it's really easy. There should be some videos examples in youtube also. Here is a link with some instructions, it's always the same: http://www.zeroplusplus.com/easy-panasonic-gh2-42mbps-firmware-patch-instructions/

Then you'd need to go to this website for the hacks: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/categories/hacks
That's the jungle to be honest but you'll end to get use of it. (I don't)

Maybe if Bern sees this he will have more links for dummies.

Also, if you have a higher budget, consider the FS100 camera that owns Morgan.

and another link to proove that gear matters very little at first: http://vimeo.com/30751603
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 06:37:50 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2012, 06:48:53 PM »
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Also, if you have a higher budget, consider the FS100 camera that owns Morgan.

I bought this camera not for image quality -Im sure the GH2 is close or as good - even if it is not no one will care.

-The slightly larger sensor meets better my still lens selection
-the onboard sound save time in the edit, which is money
- the onboard sound you can play back on set which builds confidence
-I dont need a sound recorder, less batts, less wires
-I can power from professional batteries, which saves time on set and messing with many chargers at home - time saver
-the HDMI lead is better placed Smiley

One awesome thing is the ability to record one mic into two channels at two different levels.. absolutely fantastic to the sound recordist coming from stills!

None of these things affect the viewers perception of the image.. but a 'film is sound and image, maybe 70% sound!

Quite enough wires thank you.


S



« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 06:55:42 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2012, 01:19:21 PM »
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... it's true I'm afraid by the gear because I know that my budget is one and one only, and once gone well it's gone. So I try to plan the best possible choice. That's all.

I understand you, and it's perfectly valid.

But the best possible choice is a very relative concept. The tech evolves at the speed of light and what's a great choice today becomes easily obsolete tomorrow.

People are saying that 4K is the near future, so I'm asking why some of the best prods and filmakers are currently using Arri Alexas today? (the Alexa isn't 4K)
The answer is very simple, because it's a great pro camera today.

You know, this is a culture of gear. Watch the uploaded movies. You don't read the subjects, for example "storm", no. the typical titles are "Canon-5D2-storm-low-light-with-Canon-FD-50mm-1.4-15.000-isos-magic-lantern"
This is not the content anymore, this is the gear that matters. Manufacturers couldn't be happier. They managed to create a never-satisfied spoiled childs consummers, totally gear orientated, that would buy the very latest if it will give them less noise at 500000 isos...then you see the pics, open an Albert Watson's gallery and compare...of course, something's wrong somewhere there.

Do we know, when we go to watch a movie on a theater, if it's been shoot on a Canon C300 with reduced team and so on? Do you imagine a movie title that would say instead of "Hugo", Canon C300 at 15.000 isos with Zeiss bla bla...Hugo"...ridiculous isn't it? Or why not going to a museum to see a Picasso painting and they would put: paint with 3" brush, pig hair, brand of the paintings, brand of the canvas, mood of the paintor, how many times he went to the toilets during the painting etc etc...but that's what is happening now.

The result of that "gear culture" are tons of absurd timelapses, absurd dolly shots, absurd 50.000 isos testings inundating the internet, and of course that puts a huge pressure to the kids (and the non-kids too...) to get the best possible gear. Of course this is all a mirage, but everybody bites on it.

The most ridiculous part of this is that everyone has become a tech, sorry, a tech no, it's not glamour enough, no no... a scientist of course. They seem to know a lot of things...there has never been as many scientits in this image industry...the world if full of knowledgable people testings sensors, using graphics, and writing tons of blogs on the topic.

So instead of putting yourself at work, you are worried: Have I made the good choice? Should I listen to this or that? And if I'm wrong what would happen? ...you're bloody trapped.

And the irony of all the story, is that most of the people are secretly wanting to be famous, but for what I've seen with the people who actually are famous, is that they don't give a bloody damn interest with gear and specially, very specially, cameras, unless your aim is to become a tech or cameraman, that's another story.
If I've heard top photographers talking (very rarely) about optics, I've never heard just one who was talking about cameras, resolution, DR, and so on...what do they talk about then? Well, cast, talents, story, cutting, places, lightning, money...

So think about it. Maybe there is a relation, a direct relation with the fact that the people who really are doing great stuff, are doing great stuff because they focuss on the ingredients that are key for a stuff to be great...

If you manage to do good stuff with a GH2, a FS100 or whatever, you'll have more chance to grow, strategical people will look at you, than if you got 10 red cameras and do shitty stuff. Like we see quite a lot in the MF section. Big sensors, expensive equipments: fences, gardens and average models in general...a part from a few elite and good guys, the big gear has never transformed a donky into a racing horse.
Then periodically, the 35mm guys trying to demystify their big brothers because of jalousy. In a year there are about 4 of those war threads, and guess what? they are the most read. It tells you all.

So yes, it's important that you see the gear you can afford and try to plan the best purchases you can (bet on lenses, not cameras because cameras don't last long), but it's as important you also forget about all that and simply start to film, film and film until you fall of fatigue.


 



« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 01:45:02 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Bern Caughey
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« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2012, 02:40:23 PM »
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Whether stills, or motion, cameras add a very small portion of the overall production value. What's in front of the lens is much more important than what's behind, & in the case of motion, sound is at least as important as cinematography.

You need to budget your production needs, & build in an extra 50%. In my case it should have been closer to 1000%. Maybe 10,000%.

Most any camera will be adequate in the right circumstances, & schedule, with the more expensive options providing the greatest flexibility. When time is money the big boys shine.

If you have more time than money, a hacked GH2 is the best option, especially as you'll need backup. Spend your camera budget on good head/sticks, great sound, G&E, & proper monitors.

I disagree with Morgan about EVFs. I have a 6.5" Marshall "daylight viewable" monitor with 1280720 resolution, but much prefer an EVF for focusing, especially outdoors, & among the current options the new Alphatron's image is the crispest.



« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 03:01:27 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2012, 03:11:29 PM »
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Bern,

I've been EVF hostile for some time and prefered using exclusively monitors. But now I'm changing my mind. Wich model would you recommend for the Gh2 ?
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Bern Caughey
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« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2012, 04:29:07 PM »
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Fred,

Much of my work is handheld, where I much prefer an EVF. Add blazing daylight &, I find on-board monitors almost useless. There's constantly a bright background behind me, or client wearing a white T, & the screen simply washes. Squinting sometimes helps, but rarely inspires trust.

And though I like focusing with an EVF, when practical I like composing with a monitor. If static, sticks/dolly/SteadyBag/etc, I'll use both. Sometimes it's just the camera's LCD, other times an external.

I have 1st generation Cineroid, Zacuto, & Alphatron, EVFs. Can't comment on their current offerings, but Cineroid's was rushed, & quality bad. Still it was the only HDMI EVF, & got me through. Zacuto's was a major step-up, & still a good choice., however Alphatron/TVLogic's is crisper, & offers unparrelled connectivilty. The shuttering eyepiece is almost worth the price alone. but so far I am less convinced by the menu. TVLogic has already responded with the 1st firmware update, so seem to be listening.

Later I'll compare the Zacuto against the Alphatron while both are connected to the same camera. While I'm sure to favor Alphatron's offering, Zacuto's is field proven, plus more compact, & rugged, so will remain in the kit.

Best,
B
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 04:42:18 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2012, 05:26:03 PM »
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Thanks a lot Bern, that was very usefull.

Cheers from (tropical) Madrid
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2012, 05:51:58 PM »
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"Im truely afraid of gear"

The worst thing that can happen is you buy a 5d, it has moiree, noise, and lack of resolution..

Here have a look at all of those things.. if you get the wrong camera it really could get this bad..

http://richlee.com/pub/SLASHsmall.mov

S
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 05:53:55 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2012, 10:17:10 PM »
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This might help - or add to the confusion.

I've put together a post comparing the costs involved in rigging up five systems for the cash-starved filmmaker - the bmcc with RAW, the bmcc with 220 Mbps HD, the fs100, the new Sony EA50, the Sony VG20 and the Nikon D800. The post is here: http://wolfcrow.com/blog/comparing-the-best-entry-level-cameras-for-the-indie-filmmaker/

Last year I did a similar post - where I concluded for personal reasons that the GH2 was an excellent tool for the beginning filmmaker. This year the entry costs have dropped down considerably. Maybe you can weigh the factors for yourself and understand what you're really getting into.

Hope it helps.
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« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2012, 02:17:57 AM »
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I disagree with Morgan about EVFs. I have a 6.5" Marshall "daylight viewable" monitor with 1280720 resolution, but much prefer an EVF for focusing, especially outdoors, & among the current options the new Alphatron's image is the crispest.

When I 'diss EVFs, I exclude the high resolution alphatron, which has 4X more pixels than the others, that is a very interesting EVF.

I just dont get how people think they a can focus 1080 resolution on a 480 device (the other EVFs), it just cant happen

You must be having a terrible time with that Marshall, which would not suprise me!

Of course there is Ergonomics to consider, EVFs win on some fronts and monitors on others, for example a monitor is heavy - bad, while you can view it from a distance, like if the camera is on the ground .. good

S

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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2012, 03:34:17 AM »
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The main downside I see with monitor in focus
Config is the weight in the front, wich obliges
To rig the weights counter more further. It breaks
The compactness. To keep the gravity center and
Not get muscles and back fatigue too early, I really
Have to place the counterweights really much further
Or ad 3 times much weight. The rig is then too long for my
Taste. Now, the focus acuracy is 100%.

The sunshade is really problematic indeed. Where the light is bright,
like in California or Spain, this is really a more dramatic issue because
it obliges to mount the longuest hoods, wich then obliges to place the
monitor even further.
Specialy relevant when using the best natural light's hours where the
sun is quite horizontal to the shooter-screen.


Maybe guys you can help me on semantic.
I was not able to find in Madrid a quick release
Accesory to adapt on the monitor and arm,
Instead of having to screw it. I know it exists
But don't know the name in english.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 05:15:47 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Bern Caughey
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« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2012, 11:46:30 AM »
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Maybe guys you can help me on semantic.
I was not able to find in Madrid a quick release
Accesory to adapt on the monitor and arm,
Instead of having to screw it. I know it exists
But don't know the name in english.

I use Cine Lock(s)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Discontinued_Not+Discontinued&sts=ma&N=174&Ntt=Cine+Lock
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adrjork
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« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2012, 12:37:20 PM »
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Mr. Sareesh thanks a lot for the xlsx file. It will surely be useful. I'll read it only on saturday because now I have with me only a smartphone. Anyway it sounds as a great guide!

Mr. Morgan, why do you use an external monitor? The FS100 body-only pack should include a specifical loupe for the on-board monitor, isn't it? Isn't it useful?
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