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Author Topic: Camera equipment and HD filming for newbie  (Read 16338 times)
adrjork
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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2012, 10:24:07 AM »
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About follow-focus: I've seen the edelkrone FocusONE PRO (with the repositioning pre-marked white circle). It seems useful and cheap (les or more...)
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2012, 10:37:13 AM »
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its an innovative design not the norm but looks nice

personally i 'pull off the barrel by eye using my DP6

The reason I own no follow focus is that it slows down lens changes

With filming you need to change lenses a lot because you are not after a single image but a sequence

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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adrjork
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 10:39:55 AM »
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That's right!
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adrjork
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 11:02:58 AM »
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I've seen that the SmallHD DP6-SLR Bundle is a bit pricey!

What do you think about Lilliput 5D-II 7" monitor? It's very cheap (250€) and only 9oz. In your opinion, is it completely useless in comparison with the DP6?
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 12:06:30 PM »
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600 px v 720

looks better than liliput from a couple of gens ago

dont know the battery options

input says 12v, 'pro' accesories take 11-14 volts

which is what 'pro' batteries give

I like the sunshade on the DP6

Online its all just numbers and letters, best to get to a store or rental house or hook up with a crew and get some stuff in your hands..

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
fredjeang
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2012, 03:38:02 AM »
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I have one of those Lilliput monitor, the 665GL.

It's a mixed bag.

The built quality (as expected) is so so. With 600x1024 pixels it's ok for focussing and if you spend time in optimizing the controls
it can display a relative reliable image to what you'll have recorded.
The weakest points being the plastic feeling and the ussr's style quality control... however it seems for what I heard that customer service from the company is good.

Then it has very good connections, XRL, video and HDMI in AND out (very interesting), DC 6-24v, and 2 types of battery standart.

A good basic monitor for focussing or monitoring in cascade on set if you don't ask it to do what more expensive units can.

Not really suitable for big prods but perfectly fine for indy.


About sunshades, here in Spain where the sun is harsh and unbearable, most of the hood are completly useless. We really need extra long hoods otherwise you can't operate. It depends on the latitude you are  living.
In grey, rainy, foggy, misty land where Morgan lives for ex, this is less problematic.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 03:42:15 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2012, 04:39:14 AM »
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In grey, rainy, foggy, misty land where Morgan lives for ex, this is less problematic.

The Small HD hood I can completely put my face in it.. works in any light

I don't just hide in the clouds, http://www.sammorganmoore.com/corporate-video/slide-and-splash

S
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 04:42:41 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2012, 07:48:50 AM »
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I like to tease.

Great you did advert.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 07:51:33 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2012, 08:10:02 AM »
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This would be a fine job for our OP to discus!

It is still riddled with problems, green shift from vari ND and being forced to shoot at F16 being the main ones due to keeping the shutter at 50

And also solutions..

-I could see
-I had enough power!
-I held focus

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 09:04:07 AM »
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I frankly like the output of the Sony. It delivers great imagery even in highly compressed web.

What did you use for the water tunnel ? a gopro?

I don't understand why there are 2 blured circles on the bar signs at the end of the clip?

Talking about power, my Sony F970 batteries are suffering strangely more the extreme heat than the cold. Above 35º they last way shorter.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 09:20:26 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2012, 10:12:58 AM »
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That is mainly over exposed IMO, trading off diffraction X effect  and dirt on sensor vs light level with a variable ND

Yep we did a load of GoPro , mostly the shutter went to maybe 1000 and the footage was not usable due to the high shutter strobing look

(I guess they blur this shutter out in the GoPro adverts!)

This has affected my choice of a new small camera, I chose not to get the gopro but the Nex5n which I can easily ad ND filtration.

The blur, I think it is a Coke Logo that could not be broadcast.

---

To the OP. Sorry to drift, but some empirical recording motion chat may be of value to you

Put yourself in that water-park, with no AF and no flashguns and a max allowable shutter of 1/50, and you see that light and focus management are very different from stills... harder especially when you might have to remove a logo or dust from the sensor in post - not in a single frame, but many hundreds

S
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 10:15:42 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2012, 10:58:43 AM »
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...The blur, I think it is a Coke Logo that could not be broadcast...

Oh yeah, of course, it makes all sense.

I quite like the exposure and color for the target.

I think the Nex has a much better - usable imagery than the Hero. And the sensor is the same than your FS no?

On the ND, one of the really big issue is not having an integrated ND. I hate matteboxes, and I also hate the screw filters because I don't have 2 lenses with the same diameter
and in the end it's adapters and more little devices easy to break, loose or forget on set without an assistant.
Only for that reason I would have bought this Pana AF100.

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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 11:11:00 AM »
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The NEX5n is the same S35 (apsC) sensor but being a 16mp stills cam like  canon SLRs  it must

-line skip to produce 1080 video inducing softness or moiree
-has small pixels so the lowlight is not as good as the FS100

It has the same E mount which which takes my nikkor glass at the same visual perspective as the FS100
There is also an interesting 16 2.8 pancake lens

As for filtration I have 2 77mm tiffen vairable NDs and all my lenses live with a 77 step up ring

Mainly I only use 2 lenses 18prime and 35-70 zoom, this has minimised my filtration faf..
Im on to a 28-85 nikkor zoom to swap for the 35-70 which will give me a little more range with two lenses

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2012, 11:17:47 AM »
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To our OP.

You might be following the filter chat, lets clear up that you know..

-Motion is shot only at 1/50th (for 25FPS) often requiring deep ND filtration in daylight
-motion is typically made up from sequences of shots from diffreent perspective

This means..

Often more lense changes
and
Changing lenses is a right pain due to messing with Nd filters and maybe follow focus.

It is worth considering that a Panny AF100, Sony FS700 canon C300 have onboard ND filtration which makes life very very much easier

additionally that filtration can cost $1500 or more either with multiple vari filters or a matte box and set of solids

such a cost can almost justify the FS700 over the Fs100 or a stills camera..

S


« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 11:19:23 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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adrjork
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« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2012, 10:42:53 AM »
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Well, I admit that FS700 and C300 are not in my budget.
Also FS100 should be out, but I like its Super-35 sensor that gives good low-light results (very important to me).
The Pana AF100 costs the same as FS100 but has on-board ND filter! That's great, it's true! But I have to consider the 4/3 sensor that can't give the same low-light results as Super-35, isn't it?
So I think I will use ND filters for budget reasons Wink and it will be a right pain!

Just about ND filters... ND_4 or ND_8 for Italian outdoor light?

A friend uses UV-filters simply as protector-filters, adding a Cir-Pol or a ND as main filter. Could it be good, or for some reason is it better to use a real protector-filter + ND?

About LCD vs loupe... I've seen the Varavon Profinder for still cameras with right angle view + loupe (HERE). Could it be a good alternative to external 6or7" LCD monitors for still cameras?
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fredjeang
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« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2012, 11:38:16 AM »
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2 links: http://blog.adoramarentals.com/2011/10/20/panasonic-af100-vs-sony-fs100/

http://vimeo.com/17765301

The low-light gives you an idea of the m4/3 compared to the full frame 5D2 (note that this isn't a hacked gh2 but a factory')

to see what a hacked gh2 can do in low light: http://vimeo.com/26818589
this is a relatively conservative hack.

now, look what a hacked gh2 can do at 10.000 isos with a simple post-prod noise reduc for fcp: http://vimeo.com/32204670

It's cleaner than some footage I've seen with the C300 !
This is quite amazing considering it's uploaded as a 720 footage and still looks sharp on full screen at those isos.

the m4/3 sensor is far from being a cow. We shouldn't underestimate this sensor because it's smaller on the paper and what Panasonic's tech is capable of (if they want...)

Remember that this is a sensor that gives you access to C mount, anamorphic and virtually all existing glasses from the cine industry.

Don't trust the testings with curves "scientifical" proofs and charts, watch the footage shooted with every cam you're interested in.
On the paper this sensor should be "bad" in low light. In real conditions that's another story.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 12:23:21 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Bern Caughey
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2012, 02:02:22 PM »
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adrjork
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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2012, 04:46:08 PM »
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I agree, fredjeang, and your links about GH2 tests are amazing! But about GH2 tests seem discordant: THIS clearly shows that an hacked GH2 is noisy at high ISO, while 5D3 and FS100 are better.
Well, I suppose that in the appropriate conditions, GH2 probably is one of the best choices (and I'm astonished by the absence of moiré in the tests you have posted!) but - as I've seen in the low-light test I've posted - in a general low-light condition, without de-noise, FS100 and 5D3 win.

I think that the hacked GH2 surely destroys the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, and in right conditions could give better results than 5D3, but I'd have a doubt to use it as main camera for a film with natural indoor light only, and no artificial light added.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2012, 05:47:49 PM »
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To me the choices are clear,

budget.. GH2

next is FS100

next is Black Magic - data will make it expensive compared to FS100.. but im convinced the images is a step above GH2 or FS100, a big step

--

you will see no where in there is a DSLR, I would consider a DSLR if I wanted it to do stills.

but.. Stop Press..

There is a new sony nex-ea50

Very attractive price point and ergonomic design.. also 16mp stills

This will be an FS100 'killer', in reality I think the Fs100 will have a better image as it is a 4mp video camera not a downressing stills camera

The FS100 will offer less moiree and better low light.

The other option is the sony NEX5n .. really this is as good for video as a 5dmk2, has a S35 chip (not MTF)

and is verry cheap and small!, but you will need dual sound

I did another test with my NEX5n today, shots like this are impossible with a bigger camera..

This is auto iso! https://vimeo.com/47720852

S
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 05:50:08 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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fredjeang
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2012, 07:09:06 PM »
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I agree, fredjeang, and your links about GH2 tests are amazing! But about GH2 tests seem discordant: THIS clearly shows that an hacked GH2 is noisy at high ISO, while 5D3 and FS100 are better.
Well, I suppose that in the appropriate conditions, GH2 probably is one of the best choices (and I'm astonished by the absence of moiré in the tests you have posted!) but - as I've seen in the low-light test I've posted - in a general low-light condition, without de-noise, FS100 and 5D3 win.

I think that the hacked GH2 surely destroys the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, and in right conditions could give better results than 5D3, but I'd have a doubt to use it as main camera for a film with natural indoor light only, and no artificial light added.

About low-light with the GH2 this isn't as simple.
The example I posted is someone who knows what he is doing, but there are many noisy examples in youtube-vimeo uploaded by people who don't really master the story.

The thing is that above 1600 isos, a 5D2 for ex would give you a cleaner output, but...the image obtained by the canon is way more unprecise. The hacked GH2 resolves more details than a Sony F3, an AF100 and FS100. Not a little more, much more. Very very close to the C300. http://philipbloom.net/2012/01/06/christmas-shootout/ watch the video called "christams shootout part 1" you'll see what I mean.
You can upscale without prob to 25-30% a GH2 footage and you'll obtain what a 5D2 would give in a smaller image. (because it's not just about the sensor but how the image is processed)

Therefore the extreme precision in details allows the use of denoisers in extreme isos without compromising the sensation of sharpness and quality. In other words: no post prod high isos: Canon or FS100. Post prod intervention: GH2 would be better, almost as good as the C300. Try to get the footage of the 10.000 isos example with lens at full ap with a 5D2.

This is not a straight road. It depends.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 07:22:54 PM by fredjeang » Logged
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