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Author Topic: The Olympics end  (Read 2890 times)
Rob C
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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2012, 01:41:11 PM »
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Very odd comments indeed with strange reference to Black Power salute. Lots of hate beneath those words.




That's funny, I don't see any hatred at all. What I do see is a reference to photojournalism and a statement (in the picture) about a long-running wrong to an entire society. I can't forget that Bessie Smith died of loss of blood because of something closely related to her situation and personal looks. But hell that's just old news; everything today's cool.

Right.

Rob C
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Farmer
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2012, 06:59:35 PM »
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It's a bit naive, well, no, it's wrong, to say that all Sydney got was a "white elephant" with a football park attached.

We got a new stadium, a train line and public transport system going to it, new trains, the whole CBD was remodelled with the footpaths widened and made for more pedestrian friendly, giving the whole city a lift.  Numerous roads were upgraded and redone, there are additional sporting facilities all over the city (and Sydney is a large place, spread over a large area).

The Australian Tourist Commission still calls the 2000 Olympics the most beneficial event in the history of Australian tourism.  I believe they feel that the brand "Australia" was advanced by a decade.

The Sydney Olympic Park (the stadium) hosts many commercial and sporting facilities and is used for national and international sporting events. The aquatic centre is open to the public.

There was restoration of around 150 hectares of degraded land and creation of a 425 hectare urban parkland.  Australia's first large-scale urban water recycling system was built and saves around 850million litres of drinking water p.a. and the Sydney Olympic Park area makes extensive use of renewable energy sources.

These are just the things that I can remember, and doesn't count the wonderful atmosphere and vibe of living in the city at the time.
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Dale Villeponteaux
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 03:57:42 AM »
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That's funny, I don't see any hatred at all. What I do see is a reference to photojournalism and a statement (in the picture) about a long-running wrong to an entire society. I can't forget that Bessie Smith died of loss of blood because of something closely related to her situation and personal looks. But hell that's just old news; everything today's cool.

Right.

Rob C

From Wikipedia:  Bessie Smith was taken to Clarksdale's G.T. Thomas Afro-American Hospital, where her right arm was amputated. She died that morning without regaining consciousness. After Smith's death, an often repeated but now discredited story emerged about the circumstances; namely, that she had died as a result of having been refused admission to a "whites only" hospital in Clarksdale. Jazz writer/producer John Hammond gave this account in an article in the November 1937 issue of Down Beat magazine. The circumstances of Smith's death and the rumor promoted by Hammond formed the basis for Edward Albee's 1959 one-act play The Death of Bessie Smith.[15]

"The Bessie Smith ambulance would not have gone to a white hospital, you can forget that." Dr. Smith told Albertson. "Down in the Deep South cotton country, no ambulance driver, or white driver, would even have thought of putting a colored person off in a hospital for white folks."

A similar story that gets repeated is that Dr. Charles Drew, the developer of blood banking, died because he was refused admission to a white hospital in Burlington, NC, in 1950, after a car accident.  Again, Wikipedia:  A persistent urban legend (even recounted in an episode of the TV show M*A*S*H and Philip Roth's novel The Human Stain) holds that Drew was denied care — ironically, a blood transfusion — at a nearby hospital because of his race and bled to death. In fact, Drew was well treated by the hospital. Claims that he was not treated because of his skin color are unfounded.[5] As Dr. John Ford, one of the doctors traveling with Drew, later explained, "We all received the very best of care. The doctors started treating us immediately. [...] He had a superior vena caval syndrome—blood was blocked getting back to his heart from his brain and upper extremities. To give him a transfusion would have killed him sooner. Even the most heroic efforts couldn't have saved him. I can truthfully say that no efforts were spared in the treatment of Drew, and, contrary to popular myth, the fact that he was a Negro did not in any way limit the care that was given to him."[6]

    This is not to defend the mores of the Deep South.  At the time, racism was vicious, persistent and pervasive.  It is precisely because of this fact that these errors are believable.  Better now, but by no means perfect.

Dale V., a shallow Deep Southerner


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A modest man, with much to be modest about
Rob C
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2012, 08:43:16 AM »
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Dale -

At least you've still got the best music!

Speaking of blood and race, I read online (in an offical UK health spot), that beta-blockers are not to be taken by folks of African origin because these products can kill them; an alternative is, apparently, available, but it all seems to me to go towards showing up how different people really are from one another. Even within the same ethnic race we are very different - the ideas of the 60s about "coffee-coloured people" being the ideal product of the future seems unlikely.

Perhaps the big problem with colour is the tendency to mass-characterization, as if all black, white or whatever peoples are all the same within their spectrum. We ain't thank God! Another problem is distance: until one gets to know people from different races on a personal basis, it's just too easy to accept those broad brush strokes of identity. That's one area where music helps: you do get to meet and mix and it's quite rewarding. It seems strange that one can love rock 'n' roll, jazz, sport etc. but 'hate' some of the best exponents off-field

Humans are strange creatures!

Rob C

P.S. Imagine an English group trying to come up with this:

http://youtu.be/aAk-3U2ODdo
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 08:51:54 AM by Rob C » Logged

BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 02:13:30 AM »
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Perhaps the big problem with colour is the tendency to mass-characterization,

The same is true for nationalities, professions, blood types, hair color,...

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
kikashi
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« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2012, 02:49:51 AM »
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Speaking of blood and race, I read online (in an offical UK health spot), that beta-blockers are not to be taken by folks of African origin because these products can kill them; an alternative is, apparently, available, but it all seems to me to go towards showing up how different people really are from one another. Even within the same ethnic race we are very different - the ideas of the 60s about "coffee-coloured people" being the ideal product of the future seems unlikely.

I don't, of course, know what "official UK health spot" you're reading, Rob, but race is not mentioned as a contra-indication or even a caution to use of beta-blockers in the British National Formulary, which is the prescriber's bible; and a scan around Google fails to find any mention of such a problem.

Jeremy
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Rob C
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« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2012, 03:46:01 AM »
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I don't, of course, know what "official UK health spot" you're reading, Rob, but race is not mentioned as a contra-indication or even a caution to use of beta-blockers in the British National Formulary, which is the prescriber's bible; and a scan around Google fails to find any mention of such a problem.

Jeremy


I'll try to find it for you, Jeremy. I  came across it when I had my first heart attack about ten or eleven years ago -  my daughter, who was teaching in a children's hospital at the time, forwarded the link to me. It was general info. about heart medicines; I seem to associate it with a body called the British Heart Foundation, or similar.

I'd imagine that with the readership/viewership(?) that we have in LuLa, there'd be somebody with the qualifications required to advise us about this. Oh - one granddaughter starts her second year at Uni studying the subject - I'll ask her if she can find out, if nobody else here can let us know; probably way too advanced for her, but I'm sure she must know someone who can say.

Ciao -

Rob C

Found a way to the information, but a direct link won’t fly.

1. go to:

http://www.bhf.org.uk

2. at the top of the page, in Search, type in:  beta blockers african ethnicity

3. click Search

There’s lots of info. to read.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 04:38:13 AM by Rob C » Logged

kikashi
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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2012, 01:20:38 PM »
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I'll try to find it for you, Jeremy. I  came across it when I had my first heart attack about ten or eleven years ago -  my daughter, who was teaching in a children's hospital at the time, forwarded the link to me. It was general info. about heart medicines; I seem to associate it with a body called the British Heart Foundation, or similar.
...

Found a way to the information, but a direct link won’t fly.

1. go to:

http://www.bhf.org.uk

2. at the top of the page, in Search, type in:  beta blockers african ethnicity

3. click Search

There’s lots of info. to read.


OK, Rob, I've done that. None of the six papers which appear after the search supports the proposition, I'm afraid, or even comes close. The nearest is a suggestion in the first link that there may be better drugs than beta-blockers for the treatment of high blood pressure in Afro-Caribbeans.

Jeremy
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Rob C
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« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2012, 03:56:02 PM »
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OK, Rob, I've done that. None of the six papers which appear after the search supports the proposition, I'm afraid, or even comes close. The nearest is a suggestion in the first link that there may be better drugs than beta-blockers for the treatment of high blood pressure in Afro-Caribbeans.Jeremy



Okay - it's a few years -around ten - now since my foray into Internet medicine (I don't advise it!) and maybe the 'theories' have changed a bit since then, toned down the drama? - but anyhow, it does tend to support my original point that there are distinct differences  between races, or why would there be different drugs recommended on a racial basis? I also remember that when I was being kicked out of hospital after the first attack they told me not to have more than two eggs in a week; a year or so ago, all this was turned on its head and, apparently, eggs are good for you again, even with heart history... my cardio seemed surprised when I asked.

It definitely ain't my field of expertise, should I still even have one... but I sure hope it's someone's! ;-)

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 04:21:03 PM by Rob C » Logged

kikashi
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« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 02:57:36 AM »
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Okay - it's a few years -around ten - now since my foray into Internet medicine (I don't advise it!) and maybe the 'theories' have changed a bit since then, toned down the drama? - but anyhow, it does tend to support my original point that there are distinct differences  between races, or why would there be different drugs recommended on a racial basis? I also remember that when I was being kicked out of hospital after the first attack they told me not to have more than two eggs in a week; a year or so ago, all this was turned on its head and, apparently, eggs are good for you again, even with heart history... my cardio seemed surprised when I asked.

It definitely ain't my field of expertise, should I still even have one... but I sure hope it's someone's! ;-)

Rob, of course there are some differences between races: it would be decidedly odd if skin colour were the only thing affected by genetics. I took issue originally with your assertion that beta blockade might kill black people, an assertion for which there is simply no evidence at all.

Jeremy
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Rob C
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2012, 04:26:03 AM »
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Rob, of course there are some differences between races: it would be decidedly odd if skin colour were the only thing affected by genetics. I took issue originally with your assertion that beta blockade might kill black people, an assertion for which there is simply no evidence at all.

Jeremy


Okay, it seems we aren't going to let this die.

If you read my original post on this, you'll see that I'm quoting something I read around ten years ago: it's not my assertion at all - I'm not a doctor and don't pretend to be; that would be even more difficult than passing myself off as a photographer!

Whether the information I digested those years ago concerning the potentially fatal aspects of beta-blockers for African-origin peoples was correct, mistaken or has been changed since then I don't know: I certainly didn't invent it; I can read; what I read did leave a strong impression on my mind.

For the sake of everybody's health, I certainly hope that those alternative medicines to betas (alternatives that I believe you accept exist for African people?) remain available and that they work... that they need to exist to accomodate specific ethic groups brings me back full-circle... but this ain't the Lancet.

;-)

Rob C
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2012, 04:53:29 AM »
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Pharmacogenetics is a real discipline.
It evolved from the combined situation that drugs were seen to work or not work in certain individuals or in some cases definable groups of individuals (occasionally whole racial groups) and the overall advances in genetics making the research at the molecular level viable..
As a medical professional for some decades I have to say that I am not aware of beta-blockers been harmful in Negroes (I started my career in South Africa and most of my patients were Negroes).
Interestingly enough though ACE inhibitors (used to treat high blood pressure and some forms of heart failure) appear not to work at all well in Negroes.
There are lots of other examples of this sort in different racial groups.

BTW - no axe to grind, just sharing interesting information.

Regards

Tony Jay
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 05:01:31 AM by Tony Jay » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 09:03:35 AM »
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Pharmacogenetics is a real discipline.
It evolved from the combined situation that drugs were seen to work or not work in certain individuals or in some cases definable groups of individuals (occasionally whole racial groups) and the overall advances in genetics making the research at the molecular level viable..
As a medical professional for some decades I have to say that I am not aware of beta-blockers been harmful in Negroes (I started my career in South Africa and most of my patients were Negroes).
Interestingly enough though ACE inhibitors (used to treat high blood pressure and some forms of heart failure) appear not to work at all well in Negroes.
There are lots of other examples of this sort in different racial groups.

BTW - no axe to grind, just sharing interesting information.Regards

Tony Jay


Me too; it's fascinating stuff and only goes to show what an amazingly complex thing is life on Earth.

Rob C
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