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Author Topic: Need help for printing with Mac with Epson R3000 and Hahnemuhle paper  (Read 8529 times)
Antonio Correia
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« on: August 15, 2012, 04:14:53 PM »
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I am looking for help and what I really would like is for you far easier than for me, a humble amateur photographer. I thank you for any help to start with.

I have a Mac 27", a Spider as monitor calibrator, an Epson R3000 and Hahnemuhle Fine Art paper. I use CS5 and I print through this very program.

My problem is that when I arrive to the box Print Settings/Basic/Media Type, my Hahnemuhle paper is not there and I think it should as Epson is...

I am not sure if I am explaining myself correctly but I can try again.

Thank you any help. Oh ! I have the icc profiles installed !

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António Correia
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 05:21:53 PM »
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The settings you see are part of the Epson driver software and only support Epson papers.  You need to find out from the manufacturers website which of these settings to use or do your own testing.  I'm not familiar with that particular Hahnemuhle paper but I do know that William Turner and Photo Rag Ultra Smooth use the 'Velvet Fine Art' setting as they are both matte papers.  I just went to their website and can't see a listing for 'Fine Art.'  Do you mean 'Fine Art Baryta?'  If so that is a gloss paper and you would use the Photo Paper drop down menu.  This web site will lead you to the profiles and further directions.
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 06:13:21 PM »
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I'm not sure what paper you are using but you are pointing to matte paper in your screen shot, so, Hahnemuhle recommends Velvet Fine Art media type choice for the R3000 on all thier matte inkjet papers. When you download their profile also download the Handling Instructions pdf that has printing suggestions for your printer.
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Randy Carone
David Good
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2012, 07:37:58 AM »
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Depending on the weight/thickness of the paper, you may need to adjust the Platen Gap and Paper Thickness settings in the Epson driver (if the R3000 allows). It may also be advisable to feed the sheets through the rear tray, this takes some getting used to.
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Antonio Correia
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 11:28:36 AM »
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Thank you Alan, Randy and David.  Smiley
At this very moment I am still confused about all of the parameters I have to deal with.
However, I must overcome this issue and make decent prints.

I use at the moment Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta 315 gsm Glossy Fine Art paper.
I have printed two images in B&W which turned out to be very good and I was pleased with the results.
I simulated Epson Archival Mate paper.
I tried with another paper simulation but the printer asked for the replacement of the black cartridge what was not necessary because when I changed to Archival Paper it ran..
I called Epson Portugal and they gave me some help and sent me to the f... manual which I am about to digest  Grin

What I need is the say to the printer the corresponding Epson paper for my Hahnemuhle one and for the time being I succeed, I think.
I have to move on and make more experiments - spending more ink and paper  Cry - until I get the excellent results I am looking for.

I have printed a colored image and it was a disaster !  Angry More fine tuning to make  Cry

Thank you again to all of you Smiley

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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 12:23:15 PM »
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Somewhere in the box should be the recommended media setting. Then you need their ICC profile which may or may not be very good.
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Andrew Rodney
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Antonio Correia
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2012, 01:23:17 PM »
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Somewhere in the box should be the recommended media setting. Then you need their ICC profile which may or may not be very good.

I am afraid I tried that and this is what I got.
I am using instead the Epson Archival paper which gives me decent results, so far !  Smiley

« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 03:00:54 PM by Antonio Correia » Logged

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colinm
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2012, 01:55:18 PM »
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Photo Rag Bartya is a glossy paper and requires use of the Photo Black (PK) ink.
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Colin
Antonio Correia
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2012, 03:03:39 PM »
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Photo Rag Bartya is a glossy paper and requires use of the Photo Black (PK) ink.

Colin that is also a concern of mines...
I do have to change the ink on the printer, don't I ?
For some time now I thought that would be automatic when moving into another paper.
Thank you. Useful point  Smiley
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António Correia
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David Good
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2012, 03:59:38 PM »
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Antonio, I will try to save you some consumables based on my experience with this paper on a 2400 and a 3880.

You will get best results using the PK ink with this paper, that's what was used when building this ICC profile. Your printer should swap photo and matte inks when you choose a media setting, which is Luster as indicated in the printing instructions for their glossy papers. Back when I started using this paper I set my Paper Thickness to 4 and Platen Gap to Wide, YMMV. I also bumped up the Drying Time to 10. Finest Detail on, High Speed off. I prefer to use the rear feed, takes some getting used to but becomes second nature soon enough.

Rendering intent should be chosen based on the image. That should get you started.
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Antonio Correia
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2012, 04:29:44 PM »
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Antonio, I will try to save you some consumables based on my experience with this paper on a 2400 and a 3880.

You will get best results using the PK ink with this paper, that's what was used when building this ICC profile. Your printer should swap photo and matte inks when you choose a media setting, which is Luster as indicated in the printing instructions for their glossy papers. Back when I started using this paper I set my Paper Thickness to 4 and Platen Gap to Wide, YMMV. I also bumped up the Drying Time to 10. Finest Detail on, High Speed off. I prefer to use the rear feed, takes some getting used to but becomes second nature soon enough.

Rendering intent should be chosen based on the image. That should get you started.

David it was very kind of you to drop me those lines.
I knew all the time that this wouldn't be an easy process. I have hesitated for some month but I decided to go ahead buy the printer, paper etc. and I think that in a few time and when I will have this "thing" fine-tunned I will not regret it but now, at this moment, I am very upset with the bad results.

I tried to print a colored photo. It turned out too red.
I do have my monitor calibrated and my icc profiles installed. The problem arrises when I choose the settings which are - obviously - wrong.

Your comment is excellent but too soon for me. I am still in the basics. I am still trying to print one - I mean one - decent image in color as B&W I have got the hang of it I suppose.  Roll Eyes

At this very moment I do not know what to do ! I feel like throwing the printer out of the window what I will not do, obviously.  Undecided
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António Correia
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na goodman
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2012, 05:06:25 PM »
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Here is a link to frequently asked questions about your printer. See if there are some answers that may help.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=FAQs&oid=173163&prodoid=63090295
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 05:14:26 PM by na goodman » Logged
Antonio Correia
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2012, 05:07:41 PM »
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Her is a link to frequently asked questions about your printer. See if there are some answers that may help.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=FAQs&oid=173163&prodoid=63090295

Thank you Smiley Useful link ! Smiley
Have a nice week end Smiley
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BarbaraArmstrong
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2012, 11:26:04 PM »
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Antonio, don't despair.  Once you get these settings figured out, you will be good to go with gazillions of prints, and your biggest complaint will then be having to buy replacement ink cartridges.  I use the R3000, but do it with a PC, so my software may look a little different.  But I think I can point you to settings that will get you going.  The paper you have chosen is a lovely paper, with a finish that calls for a photo (not matte) black ink.  In file names you will often see photo black ink designated with "PK".  (The "K" stands for black.)  When the printing software page calls for media type, (at least for Photoshop) you will always need to choose the Epson paper with similar characteristics.  In your case, Hahnemuehle has based their profile for your paper on Epson's Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster, so that is what you should choose in that box.  And that choice will tell your printer that it will be using PK ink.  Don't even think about choosing a matte paper (not Epson Enhanced Matte, for example) for any of the "gloss" papers such as you are using, and not for printing B&W either. 
     To help you, let's go back to the initial screen I expect you are seeing when you start the print process.  I think I have a "document" box checked under Color Management.  Then, for color handling, you will say to have Photoshop manage colors.  I get a yellow exclamation point at that part of the screen, warning me to disable printer color management.  You will do this later when you are in print settings, and choose a "No color adjustment" setting; that is because you have already said you want Photoshop to manage colors.  You will put in your printer profile (the ICC profile) which I assume you got from the Hahnemuehle web site.  I find these manufacturer web sites sometimes (often) confusing to navigate, and I will later tell you how to navigate this one for the information you want.  I choose relative colorimetric for my rendering intent.  Some would suggest "perceptual" instead.  Just go ahead and choose one, and check "black point compensation."  There are technical answers to these two choices which you can worry about later.  Choosing one or the other won't make a real difference unless you have colors that are pushing the gamut your printer is capable of.
Choose to center your image, unless you don't want to, and my boundary box is checked (whatever that means!). 
     Then you will be choosing print settings, with even more choices.  Photo Black Ink.  Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster under photo inks.  Color (choose B&W here when you are doing B&W).  Under quality options, I choose the maximum quality options available.  In my drop-down box, the bottom choice is again "quality options" and I choose Super Photo with microweave on, High Speed un-checked, also Edge Smoothing un-checked.  In the paper configuration box, I increase color density to between 6 & 10 for my paper (Canson Platine, 310g.  This increases the ink that is laid down, and you may want to start without increasing it.  I increase my drying time to the same number I use for the increased ink lay-down, so that as I increase the amount of wet, I am also increasing the drying time.  My paper is 310g while yours is 315, so I would start with the settings I use for Paper thickness: 4, and Platen Gap: wide.  Your "mode" at this point is "OFF (no color adjustment)" because you have already opted for Photoshop to manage colors.  If you don't use "Off" here, you will get double color management, with typically disastrous (often purple) results.  Show "sheet" as your source (assuming cut sheet), and set the size of your paper.  Early on, you should also have set the orientation, either vertical or horizontal.  When you see the image of your print size on your selected paper size, you will know if you haven't set this one right.
     I'm going to such lengths because this stuff bedeviled me early on too.  And printing is so much fun when you get these settings down pat that it is a shame to have to struggle with it.  Now, I said I would suggest how to navigate the Hahnemuehle site, which may help you.  Go to www.hahnemuehle.com.  Under Digital Fine Art, choose ICC profiles.  Then choose Epson, then choose your printer, the R3000.  I forget whether you choose your specific paper here or not.  Certainly, you have to choose it to download the actual profile.  And if Photoshop is open when you download the profile, you should restart it after installing the profile, so Photoshop can read it as it opens.  Choose "Handling Instructions PK, EN". That will give you instructions for PK ink, in English.  In the upper right hand corner of your screen, choose to generate the zip file.  Then choose to download the zip fule.  Then, they will give you a choice to OPEN or Download.  If you just want to read it, choose Open.  If you scroll down a bit on the document, you will see a screen shot of some of the settings we've talked about, but for the FineArtPearl paper.  That is fine.  All the settings will be the same except for the actual ICC profile.
     Good luck.  Several readers helped me on this forum today, and I hope this has helped you. --Barbara
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Antonio Correia
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2012, 01:05:05 PM »
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Thank you so much Barbara for all the work you have done to "save" me.
I have read once your post but I will read it several times before replying to you and trying what you posted.
Meanwhile, I took some time to make and compose the screen shots herewith which can be useful for someone "passing by" and using a Mac.
Perhaps a bit confusing but almost all the menus are here. The Scheduler is missing for his minor importance.


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António Correia
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BarbaraArmstrong
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2012, 03:05:54 PM »
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Antonio, you are reminding me of how much trouble I, also, had at the beginning.  But once you get the settings, you are fixed, and will understand the settings that need to be changed as you change paper, paper size, or margins (or do B&W).  You are on the right track.  In the first screen post, the first dialogue that comes up, check "Black Point Compensation".  (Does the Hahnemuehle site say to do otherwise?)  There are some printing profiles that are better with it unchecked, but unless you know otherwise, I would just keep it checked.  I would suggest, as you are learning the printing process, to check Center Image and Scale at 100%.  This will, of course, only affect size and placement on the page, rather than print quality, but you are already dealing with enough variables.  I have to admit not knowing what the "Color Matching" is in screen 4.2.  Remember, once you have set "Photoshop Manages Color" in the initial screen, you don't want any other color management.  When you go to "Print Settings" from that initial screen, you are invoking the printer driver, and you don't want any additional color management there.  If you want the absolute best in terms of image quality, I would un-check High Speed shown in Printscreen 4.6.  I would use High Speed only if you have time constraints, though some people would say they have trouble seeing a difference.  But when I think about the minute placement required of the ink dots from the print head, I don't see any point in hurrying it up.  Your last print screens show Plain Paper and Matte paper settings.  The paper you are using is a "photo" paper.  That is, it has a finish that is optimized with PK inks, and you don't want to invoke any other setting.  The Fine Art Papers are all heavier-weight matte papers (and when you are using one of these you wouldn't be referencing Epson Enhanced Matte, but rather a significantly heavier Epson paper).
     A book with a LOT of useful information that I just pulled from my shelf is "Fine Art Printing for Photographers" with a sub-title of "Exhibition Quality Prints with Inkjet Printers" by Uwe Steinmueller and Juergen Gulbins from Rocky Nook, 2007, 2008, 2nd edition.  Chock full of information.  Hope this posting helps.  --Barbara
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2012, 04:56:56 PM »
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Antonio, I don't know if your budget permits but you really should get Lightroom and print from it.  It is so much easier than Photoshop and once you settle on a paper to use you make a preset and printdriver setting and you never have to worry about having a wrong setting when you print.  I also think it's much easier to do layout in Lightroom.

Alan
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Antonio Correia
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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2012, 05:36:47 AM »
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Antonio, I don't know if your budget permits but you really should get Lightroom and print from it.  It is so much easier than Photoshop and once you settle on a paper to use you make a preset and printdriver setting and you never have to worry about having a wrong setting when you print.  I also think it's much easier to do layout in Lightroom. Alan

Again for  few minutes here and just to tell you Allan that I also use LR but I think CS gives more control over the print even for this I have to work harder.
CS has Proof Colors and Gamut Warning which I think, LR doesn't.
I hope to be right Smiley

I am very determined to get the most out of my photographs and of the combo I use (L lenses, monitor, calibrator, printer, paper).

However, your suggestion was very valid.

Thank you so much. Smiley
-
@ Barbara - Later as I have to go and cook lunch now Smiley
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António Correia
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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2012, 08:44:01 AM »
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Again for  few minutes here and just to tell you Allan that I also use LR but I think CS gives more control over the print even for this I have to work harder.
CS has Proof Colors and Gamut Warning which I think, LR doesn't.
I hope to be right Smiley
No, unfortunately you must have an older version of LR.  LR 4 has soft proofing and you have all the controls you have in PS, it's just much easier to use.  Once you make all the settings for your paper you don't have to go back.  I think you are really making this much more difficult than it needs to be.  You might want to get one the LuLa video tutorials so you can see an idealized print work flow.
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Antonio Correia
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2012, 09:31:08 AM »
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No, unfortunately you must have an older version of LR.  LR 4 has soft proofing and you have all the controls you have in PS, it's just much easier to use.  Once you make all the settings for your paper you don't have to go back.  I think you are really making this much more difficult than it needs to be.  You might want to get one the LuLa video tutorials so you can see an idealized print work flow.

My LR is version 4.
Oh I have so much to do !!!
At this very moment I am scanning a photo from my the marriage of my parents which is 65 years old, read the post from Barbara and work on it, make my themes a bit more, print folios...
Googling I even found this, here !
But this should be great ! From Schewe !

Brrr... no time now. Thank you Smiley

Many infos about Lula the former President of Brazil !! LOL LOL
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All the best to you Smiley
António Correia
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