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Author Topic: Sigma DP2 Merrill Experiences  (Read 250370 times)
Rand47
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« Reply #180 on: October 12, 2012, 01:21:12 PM »
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I don't know if Sigma has stock right now, but that is where I have made my purchases.  --Barbara

Barbara,

Thanks, camera and lens hood in stock.  I ordered this morning.  2 spare batteries and close up lens are on back order.

Camera should be here tomorrow or Monday.  This site has cost me a lot of money (but it has also brought me even more satisfaction, education, and enjoyment!)
Anybody looking for an A900 and some nice Zeiss lenses?  LOL

Rand
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BarbaraArmstrong
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« Reply #181 on: October 12, 2012, 01:43:14 PM »
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Rand, you may not have known that the camera comes with 2 batteries.  But don't be dismayed that you have ordered two more.  This camera goes through batteries like they are chocolate -- eats them right up!  You will be happy to have 4 of them!  --Barbara
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Rand47
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« Reply #182 on: October 12, 2012, 02:07:25 PM »
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Rand, you may not have known that the camera comes with 2 batteries.  But don't be dismayed that you have ordered two more.  This camera goes through batteries like they are chocolate -- eats them right up!  You will be happy to have 4 of them!  --Barbara

Barbara,

Thanks!  I was aware of the battery consumption issue, and my order of the two extras was because of the excellent advice here!  Thanks again . . .

Rand
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photodan
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« Reply #183 on: October 12, 2012, 03:08:31 PM »
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I've used my DP2M for about a week and I see a problem with how the files appear in Sigma Photo Professional 5.3.2 vs. how they appear in Lightroom (and other color-aware-programs). The primary difference is in color saturation and contrast, but perhaps also in white balance. It doesn't make a difference of what my SPP working space is, nor output color space. The files all look very flat in comparison to what I see in SPP.

I can't effectively edit in SPP, as the difference between what I see there and of the exported file in LR is too great, for many shots. I might as well just output SPP raws to Pro-Photo 16-bit Tiffs and do all edits in LR. The thing is though that most the files usually look 'better' to me in SPP - higher color saturation and contrast (for most but not all photos). Combined with the information I've seen from Michael and others that it's best to do some processing first in SPP (for raw files) and then save the images from SPP as Tiffs to be edited in LR or elsewhere, I find that seeing a big difference in many of the files creates more work for me, and in any case there shouldn't be this obvious difference. 

Has anyone else here encountered this problem?

I sent a message to Sigma, below:

"I have a DP2M and like the image quality. I shoot in Raw and I feel there is a problem with the color management in Sigma Photo Professional 5.3.2. The color saturation and contrast, and probably the white balance and color gamut is not the nearly the same when looking at the screen in SPP 5.3.2 vs. l  files output from SPP as Tiffs or JPGs viewed with color-aware programs like Lightroom and others. It doesn't matter which preferences selection of working color space I use in SPP and which output file color space I pick (sRGB, Pro Photo, same as Exif, etc.). The files come out the same and they all seem to have lower contrast and color saturation. Is Sigma aware of this bug and is it being worked on?
On a separate note: if would be GREAT if in the future the camera could output DNG standard files, or that you work with Adobe so that I could use Lightroom to work directly with the raw files.
Thank you.
Dan"
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Hulyss
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« Reply #184 on: October 12, 2012, 04:24:14 PM »
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Dear photodan,

What you experiment is very strange. I use foveon since years and never experienced that. I adjust my raw and export 16bit pro-Photo too and open it In LR. There is no difference between the two software.

Working background colour can be VERY important on our perception of colours and contrasts and we often forget this crucial setting.

Also, the photo will appear crisper the first seconds you open it. This is normal. This is the Jpeg in the RAW who is displayed with a lot of crispness for whatever reasons.

Also, be sure shooting in neutral mode. Neutral mode will bring you the most dynamic out of the sensor. Tweaking saturation in SPP is more efficient than setting color mode like standard or vivid. It is too strong.

And, never forget to export in SRVB colour profile out of LR. Otherwise there is some problems Wink

Well... I know you know most of what I said. I swear there is not such inter-apps anomaly.
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Ligament
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« Reply #185 on: October 12, 2012, 07:21:22 PM »
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I've used my DP2M for about a week and I see a problem with how the files appear in Sigma Photo Professional 5.3.2 vs. how they appear in Lightroom (and other color-aware-programs). The primary difference is in color saturation and contrast, but perhaps also in white balance. It doesn't make a difference of what my SPP working space is, nor output color space. The files all look very flat in comparison to what I see in SPP.

I can't effectively edit in SPP, as the difference between what I see there and of the exported file in LR is too great, for many shots. I might as well just output SPP raws to Pro-Photo 16-bit Tiffs and do all edits in LR. The thing is though that most the files usually look 'better' to me in SPP - higher color saturation and contrast (for most but not all photos). Combined with the information I've seen from Michael and others that it's best to do some processing first in SPP (for raw files) and then save the images from SPP as Tiffs to be edited in LR or elsewhere, I find that seeing a big difference in many of the files creates more work for me, and in any case there shouldn't be this obvious difference. 

Has anyone else here encountered this problem?

I sent a message to Sigma, below:

"I have a DP2M and like the image quality. I shoot in Raw and I feel there is a problem with the color management in Sigma Photo Professional 5.3.2. The color saturation and contrast, and probably the white balance and color gamut is not the nearly the same when looking at the screen in SPP 5.3.2 vs. l  files output from SPP as Tiffs or JPGs viewed with color-aware programs like Lightroom and others. It doesn't matter which preferences selection of working color space I use in SPP and which output file color space I pick (sRGB, Pro Photo, same as Exif, etc.). The files come out the same and they all seem to have lower contrast and color saturation. Is Sigma aware of this bug and is it being worked on?
On a separate note: if would be GREAT if in the future the camera could output DNG standard files, or that you work with Adobe so that I could use Lightroom to work directly with the raw files.
Thank you.
Dan"


I have the exact same problem. I believe this is a new problem they added as an enhanced feature in SPP 5.3.2. They removed the vertical banding SPP 5.3.1 was causing, and added this new problem for our pleasure, and to ensure SPP remained a piece of crap software.
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photodan
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« Reply #186 on: October 12, 2012, 08:40:31 PM »
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... There is no difference between the two software. ...   Also, be sure shooting in neutral mode. ...And, never forget to export in SRVB colour profile out of LR. Otherwise there is some problems ....

Thanks for your response Hulyss.  I do use Neutral mode, and I've tried exporting in sRGB as well as Adobe RGB and Pro Photo. I've run more extensive tests today, and I'm sure it's not my background color (I've tried different shades of gray in LR). The difference is not subtle on most shots.

Are you using SPP 5.3.2?

Dan
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photodan
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« Reply #187 on: October 12, 2012, 09:11:53 PM »
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I have the exact same problem. I believe this is a new problem they added as an enhanced feature in SPP 5.3.2. They removed the vertical banding SPP 5.3.1 was causing, and added this new problem for our pleasure, and to ensure SPP remained a piece of crap software.

Thanks for your response Ligament.

I think I just discovered something.

It appears that files exported out of SPP with a color space of Pro Photo or sRGB  are not tagged with a color space ID (or whatever the proper term is). I used Picture Window Pro to determine this. Files output with a color space designation of Adobe RGB are tagged, however it appears that the tagging is incorrect (files show the comparison disparity to display in SPP).  

Files output from SPP with the designation of sRGB are not tagged, however if I open the file as if it was Adobe RGB in Picture Window Pro (modified post 10/13: but w/o color management enabled) then the image looks almost identical with how it looks in SPP. This happens no matter what the working space designation in SPP is. (However I've not been able to find a way to save files such that Lightroom will import them with the proper appearing color space)

What a mess.

I wish I had a direct pipeline to the programmers at Sigma. Maybe this research finding would make it more likely that Sigma would fix it in the near term.  I don't have any confidence that my web-contact form I filled out at the Sigma USA website will catch anyone's attention.  Well, I've spent several hours on this stupid problem, including attempting to come up with a develop preset in LR to get around the problem (not successful yet). 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 02:22:02 PM by photodan » Logged
BarbaraArmstrong
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« Reply #188 on: October 12, 2012, 10:21:23 PM »
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I have not had a problem with any images looking under-saturated or appearing changed between the Sigma software and Photoshop/ACR.  I could provide a little background in case that helps identify a difference in what we are doing and help to isolate the source of your problem.  I updated the Sigma software once since acquiring the camera shortly after Quentin put up his first post on it.  I think that update took me from version 5 to version 5.3.  Has there been another update?  If so, I haven't done it.  I am working on a PC machine, in ACR and Photoshop.  I don't do any editing in the Sigma software, just export in 16-bit tiff mode, ProPhoto color space.  When I pull up one of these tiffs in Bridge, it is labeled with the ProPhoto space.  The comments about the camera settings made me pull up the menu info, and I noticed that I have been shooting in Standard rather than Neutral.  I would appreciate hearing what the difference is.  My images start out with a good level of saturation, needing very little in post.  Hope this may help some.  Maybe I shouldn't upgrade to 5.3.2?  --Barbara
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Ligament
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« Reply #189 on: October 12, 2012, 11:01:00 PM »
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Perhaps the colorspace tagging issue is only happening on the Mac platform? Seems no windows users have the problem.
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Hulyss
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« Reply #190 on: October 13, 2012, 03:34:40 AM »
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Yes, the window/mac issue might be the source of the problem. I use the last SPP and DP2m firmware, and I'm on windows platform. I heard that on Mac there is sometimes an issu but it can be solved by multiple try. (sometimes it tag sometime no).

Here is the full links for all updates :

Body firmware Updates at  October 13 2012 :

# SIGMA SD1 Merrill : Version 1.03 >> http://www.sigma-sd.com/download/sd1m-firmware.html

# SIGMA DP2 Merrill : Version 1.01 >> http://www.sigma-dp.com/download/dp2m-firmware.html

# SIGMA SD15 : Version 1.04 >> http://www.sigma-sd.com/SD15/firmware.html

# SIGMA DP2x : Version 1.02 >> http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP2x/firmware.html

# SIGMA DP1x : Version 1.03 >> http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP1x/firmware.html

#########################################################################

SIGMA PHOTO PRO update at October 13 2012:

SIGMA PHOTO PRO version 5.3.2 >> http://www.sigma-sd.com/download/photopro.html

#########################################################################

SIGMA CAPTURE PRO update at October 13 2012:

SIGMA CAPTURE PRO version 1.0.1 >> http://www.sigma-sd.com/download/capturepro.html

#########################################################################

MICRO 4/3 update at October 13 2012:

Olympus >> http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/download/software/firm/e1/index.cfm#sigma_l

Panasonic >> http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/index.html

#########################################################################

The next update will be available late October / early November for body's with embedded Merrill sensors. This update will provide additional colour mode to obtain the legendary colour rendering of the SIGMA SD9.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 04:56:56 AM by Hulyss » Logged

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nandadevieast
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« Reply #191 on: October 13, 2012, 09:30:05 AM »
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Hi,
I am sure you are aware that LR applies its own settings on TIFFS and JPEGS, anything that's not RAW.
This happens with any camera.
Is this a possibility in your case?
regards,
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neways
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« Reply #192 on: October 13, 2012, 11:23:16 AM »
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Hi Hulyss,

I posted a message about the SPP 5.3.2 process questions but get no response. From reading your posts I feel you are very knowledgeable about the Sigma SPP software. So could you tell me what is the function of Exporting Setting and Import (under File in Review Window) in the software? How to use them? I played with it but don't see any effects to new images while I opened the saved XML setting.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

John
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Hulyss
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« Reply #193 on: October 13, 2012, 02:29:27 PM »
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Hello Neways !!

I'm sooory ! I seen your post but today I'm booked fighting utter trolls on French web site and I'm getting lazy Wink

I answer you tomorrow if you don't mind Smiley 
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #194 on: October 13, 2012, 03:09:23 PM »
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... today I'm booked fighting utter trolls on French web site...

"Honey, are you coming to bed?"

"I can't"

"Why?"

"Some guy on the Internet is wrong!"

 Grin
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Slobodan

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« Reply #195 on: October 13, 2012, 06:39:25 PM »
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I have a very similar DIY setup for my newly acquired DP2M, and what kind of overlap, or degrees, do you apply to get best result that require minimal trouble for any stitching software, assuming a vertically placed camera and a one-row shooting approach? All I want to do is to create a 1:3 ratio file, big enough to print at 15 x 45 inches on 17" rollpaper.

I suppose that I have to use manual and even hyperfocal focusing, to avoid focus discrepancies. So how do you do it yourself? What f-stop you have found to be ideal for this purpose?

I have never used hyperfocal on such small lenses (30mm is short, comapredto medium format's 90 to 180mm); is there any difference? Normally I would focus in to about 1/3 of the scene and use f8 to f11 and shoot away. But this was on a fixed lens on a Linhof 617, Fuji 617 and homemade 617 with 120mm.

Thanks in advance.

And no, I'm not returning to film.  Grin
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photodan
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« Reply #196 on: October 13, 2012, 07:35:22 PM »
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For now am trying a work-around to the color space issue. There is probably a simpler way, however I havenít found it yet. Maybe Photoshop provides a better means of corrected the color profile than the tools I have, but I donít have that software.  It may seem a bit nonsensical but after trying many combinations it gets very close to what I see in SPP.  I use SPP 5.3.2, a free color profile converter (but it only works with 8-bit Tiff files) from here http://www.drycreekphoto.com/tools/profile_converter/, and Lightroom.

In SPP 5.3.2 I work with the raw file and make basic adjustments to exposure, color saturation, fill light, and White Balance. In preferences I select workspace as Adobe RGB, save the files as sRGB as 8-bit Tiff. Then I input the file to the profile converter: select Adobe RGB as the input color space, output to sRGB color space, embedding the profile. Some other combinations may work, however most do not, and surprisingly using an all sRGB flow in SPP and Dry Creek does not work nearly as well.  I import the converted 8-bit Tiffs to Lightroom and go from there.

Itís apparent that the problem affects both Mac and PC Win users, and that the problem is messed up color management in the latest version of SPP- 5.3.2, when working and outputting raw files (I donít know about in-camera jpgs).

Re Michael Rozynskiís post about the color shifts between jpeg and raw, extrapolation that info  perhaps I should shoot jpgs until the color space issue is found. Interesting about the twitter post.

Re Kazuto Yamakiís twitter about Foveon blue: I would hope he and Sigma is aware of the color space issue (talk about priorities :-). If itís not fixed in the next month or so Iím afraid I just may say Sayonara to the DP2M camera.

Re BarbaraArmstrongís post about maybe not upgrading to 5.3.2.  Seems to me like a good idea to stay put for now, with the prior version.

Re nandadevieastís post that LR applies its own settings on TIFFS and JPEGS, anything that's not RAW. Yes, Iím aware of it, and if there is no embedded profile it is supposed to assume itís sRGB. The problem is that the embedded profiles coming out of the raw-processed-to-tiffs-or-jpegs apparently have the wrong profile or messed-up profiles, and thereís no way in LR to change the profile assumption (that Iíve found anyway). 
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Ligament
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« Reply #197 on: October 13, 2012, 11:30:13 PM »
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The problem with staying with SPP 5.3.1, however, is the vertical banding issue that the software creates.
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Hulyss
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« Reply #198 on: October 14, 2012, 03:41:55 AM »
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"Honey, are you coming to bed?"

"I can't"

"Why?"

"Some guy on the Internet is wrong!"

 Grin

Grin  They are not wrong, they are French. They don't want to learn and don't accept some ppl have more knowledge than them on Foveon and techniques. That is fact so they always go in protestation (and they do not own any foveon Wink ), always. Well at least, some got the DP2m and now, know what I speak about ... But damn...

Well, you all know what I mean.

Myself, I feel very noob when I come on LL and see what you all produce. I will not come here to say you are wrong. I know I need to learn a lot from my few years of photography. But you can ask me anything about foveon technology  Grin

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

The problem with staying with SPP 5.3.1, however, is the vertical banding issue that the software creates.

SPP will have a fix by the end of the month or so. I'm sure SIGMA is working on the issue and some improvements will be made (I hope Smiley )

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

Hi Hulyss,

I posted a message about the SPP 5.3.2 process questions but get no response. From reading your posts I feel you are very knowledgeable about the Sigma SPP software. So could you tell me what is the function of Exporting Setting and Import (under File in Review Window) in the software? How to use them? I played with it but don't see any effects to new images while I opened the saved XML setting.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

John

Dear John,

I explain you how work this function. You open a picture in SPP and apply the settings you want. Then you record and name your settings in the bracket I show you in the picture below. Then, go in menu, export settings and store your favourite settings in a file on your computer.

When you want to use a setting again, just go in menu, import settings, seek the setting you need and import it. Your named setting will be now available in the little scroll window.

I personally do not find this function very useful, or just when you want to share your settings with other ppl over the web or changing computer, because once recorded, they stay in the window.

Kind regards, and sorry for my French.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 03:45:04 AM by Hulyss » Logged

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Hulyss
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« Reply #199 on: October 14, 2012, 05:42:29 AM »
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It Rain, but there is always an occasion to do photos Smiley
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