Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 29 30 [31] 32 33 ... 52 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Sigma DP2 Merrill Experiences  (Read 201732 times)
K.C.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 650


« Reply #600 on: December 26, 2012, 01:28:36 PM »
ReplyReply

1.
DP1M or DP2M.
Iīve never tested a prime wide lens (DP1M) and Iīm very curious about it. On the other hand the more regular DP2M lens looks like the best of the two, even if both are very good and well matched with the sensor...

Read the reviews right here on the LL site.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp1_merrill.shtml

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp2m_review.shtml


2.
And the close up aspect. I can only find a close up lens (AML-2) for the DP2M not for the wider sister. I do real macro indoors with a very good macro lens, but a close up approach is sometimes interesting while outdoors.

Though I'm sure it's done, diopters are not typically used on wide lenses.






Logged
Pansottin
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #601 on: December 26, 2012, 01:30:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the reply.
Logged
mezzoduomo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


« Reply #602 on: December 27, 2012, 07:55:31 PM »
ReplyReply

I love this camera.
ISO 100, F 16, 1/80.


« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 01:30:42 PM by mezzoduomo » Logged
ndevlin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 496



WWW
« Reply #603 on: December 29, 2012, 07:56:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the info and the suggestion KC. I'm going to put tomorrows shoot on my external hard drives and see what difference it makes in LR4.

You're going to find that housing your raws and/or your catalogueon an external drive really slows you down unless you are running on Thunderbolt cables. My FW800 Drobo setup became unspeakably frustrating with D800 and DP2 files. I recently did my quadrennial upgrade -- to a MP Retina and a TB external drive -- and the difference is revelatory.

Sorry to be the bearer of expensive news.

Cheers,

- N.
Logged

Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
ndevlin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 496



WWW
« Reply #604 on: December 29, 2012, 08:06:52 AM »
ReplyReply


For the record, I don't find the 19mm lens on the DP1M as good as the 30mm on the DP2. The files are nice, but much like my experience with the SD1M (with Michael and Laurence last year - http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_sd1_review.shtml) I just don't find it exceptional in the same way as I do the DP2M.

The 19mm is a phenomenally useful focal length, but I am taking a pass for now.  It is a very good camera, but not 'good enougher' to justify it over the D800E.

This simply proves, imho, how crucial lens design is to digital performance. I've found this on the 645D, the D800 and now the Sigmas.  Some lenses blow the doors off, others, meh.   

Cheers,

- N.

- N.
Logged

Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
michael
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4731



« Reply #605 on: December 29, 2012, 09:48:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Interesting point Nick. It's long been clear to me (and becoming clearer daily) that in terms of improved IQ, lenses have now taken over as the prime factor.

In the days of film we wanted finer grain and higher resolution emulsions, but this was usually at the expense of tonal range in B&W, or colour accuracy.

Now, sensors from 16MP and up give us all the resolution we need, and except for duds, when shooting raw we have total control of colour rendition. But less than excellent lenses are the point of greatest vulnerability.

My shooting with the DP2M and now the RX1 shows what a difference at excellent optic can make (and also a permanently attached lens with optimized design for a particular sensor). Both of these cameras easily match any 24MP camera and give the D800 a run for it's money, simply because they have exceptional lenses.

When I get home to Canada in the spring I'm going to have to give my Nikon lens setup a closer look. Anyone have a Coastal Optics to sell?

Michael
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 09:50:05 AM by michael » Logged
mezzoduomo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


« Reply #606 on: December 29, 2012, 09:56:27 AM »
ReplyReply


It is a very good camera, but not 'good enougher' to justify it over the D800E.


Cheers,

- N.

If one owns neither at the moment....and if you factor in the price differential between the two cameras....and given the price of truly great glass for the D800E....does your perspective change a bit? I.E., does a $1000 camera need to be better than a $3000++ rig?
Logged
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12215


« Reply #607 on: December 29, 2012, 11:11:48 AM »
ReplyReply

Owning neither doesn't really mean that buying one with no interchangeabilty is a better choice;  neither, it seems, does the simple fact that body and lens are fixed always make the essential difference, as is borne out by the two Merrills.

I think they struck it lucky with the first, the 30mm, and that's probably as far as it's going to go; after all, if you make a variety of cameras and lenses, it makes more commercial sense to sell units that the buyer can mix'n'match: it encourages the creation and dependency on system photography, locked-in buyers, as Hassy always knew well! Difference? Their (Hassy) once-upon-a-time was affordable to more buyers, including myself. Frankly, even though I could put down the money, I wouldn't for today's versions. Perhaps if the business still existed, but even then, I'd be surprised; I always wanted to work and earn for myself and the family, not the photo-equipment people, the jewellers or the car manufacturers.

Rob C
Logged

K.C.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 650


« Reply #608 on: December 29, 2012, 01:44:05 PM »
ReplyReply

I think they struck it lucky with the first, the 30mm, and that's probably as far as it's going to go; after all, if you make a variety of cameras and lenses, it makes more commercial sense to sell units that the buyer can mix'n'match: it encourages the creation and dependency on system photography, locked-in buyers, as Hassy always knew well! Difference? Their (Hassy) once-upon-a-time was affordable to more buyers, including myself. Frankly, even though I could put down the money, I wouldn't for today's versions.

I doubt it was luck finding that the 30 could be optimized with the sensor. I'd give me them more credit as engineers than that.

And Michael findings on the 19 sound appropriate to me, "Remember, this is a 19mm lens (28mm eqiv). As such it is no different that other high quality wide primes. I don't know any lens in this focal range that is without these issues, including those from Leica and Zeiss. Top quality wide angle primes are simply hard to design and make."

Nick's comment sounds like Nick and appropriate as well for anyone who already owns a D800 at 3 times the cost and size.



Logged
Pansottin
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #609 on: December 29, 2012, 03:02:27 PM »
ReplyReply

Finally Iīll work outside, traveling with quality that permits professional results for print (including offset print) with gear that weight less than 400grs and without selling some furniture to buy a quality camera that is also compact ,-)
Image quality is my main concern. Portability and affordability too. This Sigma is all this as far as I could saw and read.
Leica M was the choice (not for me).
Sony RX1 insīt yet the alternative.
Merrill is my choice.
Logged
ndevlin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 496



WWW
« Reply #610 on: December 29, 2012, 11:46:45 PM »
ReplyReply

If one owns neither at the moment....and if you factor in the price differential between the two cameras....and given the price of truly great glass for the D800E....does your perspective change a bit? I.E., does a $1000 camera need to be better than a $3000++ rig?

The comparison is still apples-to-steak-knife. They're just two different things.  As I said, only somewhat jokingly in the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3VjyHQiqdE) the DP1 and DP2, along with a complete DSLR system, are the only cameras you'll ever need  Grin Grin Grin

These are niche devices.  If you want what is, essentially, a mini tech-cam with a 28 or 50mm equivalent lens, they're a no-brainer.  If you want a versatile camera, forget about it.  

Three factors control what we buy: want, need and means.  Most serious photogs are able to buy a DP1M. If they already own, or are likely to own, another serious system that covers that focal length, they don't need one.  Whether they like working with it determines whether it is wanted at all. I like it, I can afford it, but I don't need it.  I don't like it enough to buy it. That's my math. Everyone else's will be their own. I don't need the DP2M, but I like enough to buy it. That's the difference.

- N.
  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 12:05:22 AM by ndevlin » Logged

Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
ndevlin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 496



WWW
« Reply #611 on: December 29, 2012, 11:58:59 PM »
ReplyReply


ps. I reject the premise about the cost of the best optics. It pains me to say it, but the best optics -- in terms of performance on ultra high-res digital cameras -- are, imho, the newest lenses, largely irrespective of price.  The new 50mm f1.8, 28mm f1.8 and 85 mm f1.8G lenses on Nikon are both value priced and superior to their faster counterparts (or at least equal). The new 24-85 kicks the crap out of the doggish (and expensive) 24-120mm.  The 30mm Sigma adds what, less than half the price of a sub-$1K camera, and it's as good as it gets.

I don't think that performance equals price OR theoretical performance measured on a traditional optical bench. The best lens is the lens designed to match the needs of the sensor it serves.  My limited knowledge of optical physics kicks in at this juncture, but my experience tells me that the Leica lens that brought me closest to heaven (the 75mm f2 AA) was mediocre on the Fuji Xpro1.  Why? I do not know.  The same was true for the 24mm f3.8, another blow-the-doors-off lens.  Brilliant older Nikkors have given me similarly unsatisfying performance on the D800E.  I don't think I am imagining this. (And the sentimentalist in me doesn't like what the empiricist in me perceives, so this is not a case of preference-error).

We live in interesting times.  If you can afford it, get the newest upper-grade glass. But you don't need to break the bank.  If you are chasing the golden megapixels, hand-held is over, f16 is over, and your favourite MF lens can stay at home. 

Of course, our art often demands that these rules be broken, and so broken they shall be.

Cheers,

- N.
Logged

Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12215


« Reply #612 on: December 30, 2012, 03:16:57 AM »
ReplyReply

I doubt it was luck finding that the 30 could be optimized with the sensor. I'd give me them more credit as engineers than that.

And Michael findings on the 19 sound appropriate to me, "Remember, this is a 19mm lens (28mm eqiv). As such it is no different that other high quality wide primes. I don't know any lens in this focal range that is without these issues, including those from Leica and Zeiss. Top quality wide angle primes are simply hard to design and make."

Nick's comment sounds like Nick and appropriate as well for anyone who already owns a D800 at 3 times the cost and size.


 
That's your view, though you choose to base/defend it on that of others. But that's still okay, as far as I'm concerned.

That anyone already owning a top slr system would need a camera such as either of the Merrills is open to debate; that anyone in that position chooses to buy one is another matter, and speaks more abut the collection of toys or cameras for their own sake than it does about photography. There's nothing illegal about that: it just isn't my view on cameras at all, where I believe that the fewer and the better, the better for you, the photographer/owner. Should you have a non-photographic purpose in collecting, that's fine too; as I say, there's no law against that - yet!

Rob C
Logged

K.C.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 650


« Reply #613 on: December 30, 2012, 03:39:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Rob I was just supporting my opinion by referencing those a little more well known and respected than myself. I would hardly call that a defense. Nor was I intending to suggest you need to defend your opinion. It's every bit as valid as mine, different as it may be.

My comment about Nick's point of view, if you interpret it as I intended it, he substantiated. I would think Michael's review would stand on it's own as a reference.

Nick's comment sounds like Nick and appropriate as well for anyone who already owns a D800 at 3 times the cost and size.

Three factors control what we buy: want, need and means.  Most serious photogs are able to buy a DP1M. If they already own, or are likely to own, another serious system that covers that focal length, they don't need one.

Logged
kencameron
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 666



WWW
« Reply #614 on: December 30, 2012, 04:18:01 AM »
ReplyReply

That anyone already owning a top slr system would need a camera such as either of the Merrills is open to debate; that anyone in that position chooses to buy one is another matter, and speaks more abut the collection of toys or cameras for their own sake than it does about photography.
Hard to argue need, particularly for an amateur, but surely portability is a consideration that might take the purchase of one or other of the Merrills out of the domain of collecting toys or cameras for their own sake, particularly for landscape photographers who are ageing but still like to get around in rough country.
Logged

Pansottin
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #615 on: December 30, 2012, 08:14:02 AM »
ReplyReply

For me itīs a bones (I mean real bones in my body) question and image quality (IQ), portability (P) and affordability (A).
I canīt carry my FF dslr all day long (my health do not allow) and wanted to keep the image quality outdoors.
The Merrills are the IQ/P/A .-)

Otherwise I wouldnīt think about a second camera.
But Iīll keep my FF system for studio work and a huge reason is the macro ability that a Leica system couldnīt solve properly (IQ/P).
That way I can keep my macro and other studio work and work outdoors without sell or switch entirely systems.
Just my case.
Logged
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12215


« Reply #616 on: December 30, 2012, 10:53:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Hard to argue need, particularly for an amateur, but surely portability is a consideration that might take the purchase of one or other of the Merrills out of the domain of collecting toys or cameras for their own sake, particularly for landscape photographers who are ageing but still like to get around in rough country.



Being rather steeped in the age thing myself, I understand your point and have shared it for several years more than I'd care to contemplate.

My solution is simple: I take the camera (D700) with one fixed lens on it, of whatever focal length that I own that suits my idea or mood prior to going out. I know perfectly well that that original idea will probably turn out a bummer, and that another lens would have made a better shot - even a shot - but who's to know? The same problem unavoidably faces the Merrill owner with alternative cameras to hand: if he takes the Merrill, then logic prohibits carrying the other camera or the problem is only compounded, and the second law of photography raises its head: redundancy.

Actually, the real problem with going out on the town to shoot is toilets: I dislike going into them with cameras, and leaving them on a café table is madness at best. Having a companion is the only answer I know, but companions distract from the main game. Perhaps going out to the country to shoot relieves the toilet problem, but it raises others: another snapper might snap you in flagrante delicto.

But that's photography; what are we arguing about? We never win, but we might get close - that's the first law of the game.

;-)

Rob C
Logged

mezzoduomo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


« Reply #617 on: December 30, 2012, 12:08:03 PM »
ReplyReply

The 30mm Sigma adds what, less than half the price of a sub-$1K camera, and it's as good as it gets.

Cheers,

- N.

My first real interest in the Sigma brand came as a result of buying this lens for my Sony NEX-5N. I subsequently bought a Sigma zoom for my old Nikon D-90...and then the DP2 Merrill. I've ordered the Sigma 19mm for the Sony, which may (at least temporarily) satisfy my lust for the DP1 Merrill.
Logged
juan_amores
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #618 on: December 31, 2012, 02:08:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Happy new year!!


_SDI0263 por John Loves, en Flickr
Logged
Pansottin
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #619 on: January 01, 2013, 07:56:34 PM »
ReplyReply

http://www.flickriver.com/groups/969824@N20/pool/interesting/

A river of good examples; Foveon for monochrome work.
Sometimes the ISO 1600 and looks to me like film grain.
Nice ,-)
Logged
Pages: « 1 ... 29 30 [31] 32 33 ... 52 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad