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Author Topic: My Body... Finally.  (Read 4752 times)
wolfnowl
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« on: August 19, 2012, 12:20:02 AM »
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Brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7_6RB_ERGU

Mike.
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If your mind is attuned to beauty, you find beauty in everything.
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 01:59:33 AM »
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well DOH...not what I would call "Brilliant", it's what I would call obvious...would have been "Brilliant" 30-40 years ago...now? Not so much...
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Rob C
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 04:36:01 AM »
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I agree with SCHEWE?

Absolutely, and three points come to mind:

a. magazines exist to make money as do the cosmetics and the clothing industries;

b. paying attention to the woman speaking at 5.08 to 5.11 tells you all you need to know: we want escape from the grimness of reality and the mundane;

c. the reasons why good professional models are valuable is proven in the results of not using them, as demonstrated by the video.

It's a tough world for humans, female or male. Does the guy exist who has never wished himself with a different body, never faced a physically challenging situation where he just knows that a better physique would have resulted in a far better outcome for him? Given two people with the same job abilities, my guess would be that the more attractive one will get the job. It happens in photography as anywhere else. As a species, we like beauty; it's not something advertising invented, it's something advertising exploits.

Rob C
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2012, 06:10:44 AM »
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I think the people that are considered by society to be the most attractive owe a lot to us fat, 'ugly' people...without us, they would not exist.  I also remind myself of two important advantages to being fat:  1. We never get kidnapped because we are too difficult to hide and too expensive to feed.  2.  Fat people don't wrinkle.  Our skin is stretched too tight.  Grin
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2012, 06:20:39 AM »
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While beauty may not be something advertising invented and while it may be something advertising exploits, you've apparently missed the entire point Rob.  There are many forms of beauty and what advertising is doing is telling us that there is only one form of beauty and if you don't conform you're not beautiful.  

I do agree that this isn't overly brilliant in concept; however.  It's basically a riff on Dove's 'Campaign for Real Beauty' which has been going on for nearly 10 years.  
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 07:35:25 AM by BobFisher » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2012, 12:06:28 PM »
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While beauty may not be something advertising invented and while it may be something advertising exploits, you've apparently missed the entire point Rob.  There are many forms of beauty and what advertising is doing is telling us that there is only one form of beauty and if you don't conform you're not beautiful.   I do agree that this isn't overly brilliant in concept; however.  It's basically a riff on Dove's 'Campaign for Real Beauty' which has been going on for nearly 10 years.  

Lost my reply again. Another damned glitch with using the ‘space provided’!

“you've apparently missed the entire point Rob.  There are many forms of beauty and what advertising is doing is telling us that there is only one form of beauty and if you don't conform you're not beautiful.”

No, I haven’t missed the simple point at all. The video uses ‘plain’ women in an attempt at proving a point but succeeds in proving the opposite: visible beauty is all about surface. However intelligent, witty, loveable or otherwise those ‘plain’ models/women were, none of that comes through with the sound off (which is where the temptation leads one) and advertising is all about the visible...

I am perfectly aware that a beautiful mind makes a better companion in some circumstances than does a dim but beautiful exterior. The two are different things, certainly not mutually exclusive. If you get lucky, you find both in the same package, but don’t hold your breath too long: it’s damned rare to find anyone truly beautiful walking the street, in the supermarket, on the train or anywhere else. Such people can make a lot of money because they are a rare species.

There are indeed many forms of beauty, and even a brief foray into the world of model agency websites will show that what’s considered beautiful lives within a very wide gamut. The advertising/fashion/movie industries certainly do not give me the impression that there is but a single idea or ideal of beauty, the folks within are far from clones, the one of the other. Try doing a casting and you’ll discover that pretty damned quickly, especially when it’s your purpose to find girls of a 'similar type’ to suit a client’s desires.

The situation also exists in reverse: models are often assumed to be nothing more than ‘dumb blondes’, a prejudice usually based on the sound principle of not actually knowing any of them. I’ve known and worked with many; if anything, they are far more aware and worldly-wise than mere ‘civilians’ ever are. It’s all nonsense and a broad generalization and does no service to anyone, pretty, beautiful, plain or downright ugly. Taking a plain person and putting that person into the silly situations shown in the video is cruelty and a form of exploitation, whether or not the women realise what’s happened to them or not; at least, that's how I see it.

Horses for courses applies as much to people as to horses.

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 12:12:00 PM by Rob C » Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 01:09:24 PM »
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... Horses for courses applies as much to people as to horses...

Not to mention that some horses are better looking than some people, although the latter might even resemble the former occasionally Grin

P.S. Glib... I know Wink
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Slobodan

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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 07:04:03 AM »
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You're obfuscating, Rob.  And not doing it very well at all.

Your pontificating response effectively proved my point.  I wasn't saying anything about intelligence.  And yes I'm more than well aware that agencies will have a wide variety of people available for different client needs.  But the one who's hired to do a plus sized fashion shoot isn't going to be festooned on the covers of Vogue and Cosmo.  The one who's hired to portray a housewife in a commercial isn't going to be the next Chanel girl. 

Your viewpoint is so completely superficial that you're either unable to unwilling to recognise that you're simply proving my point.  I 'see' very beautiful people on a regular basis.  Yes, in the supermarket and on the train.  Implying that all such people should be or want to be supermodels is yet another example of that superficiality. 

But back to the intelligence comment for a moment.  I worked with a woman in Trinidad who was truly beautiful and a successful model.  She was also completing her PhD in molecular biology and using modeling as a means of paying for her education. 

That a casting call for a certain 'type' or 'look' brings out all manner of people who don't fit that 'look' or 'type' is immaterial.  It merely illustrates that they or their agents either can't read or are deluded enough to think they can convince the client that they can or do fit the desired type or look or that the client really wants them and not what was asked for.  But, again, that's just more unsuccessful obfuscation on your part.

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Rob C
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 08:49:57 AM »
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Bob, I surrender. There's absolutely no value in my conversing with someone who refuses to see the point.

Fare thee well.

Rob C
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 08:52:31 AM »
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I see the point you're trying to make, Rob.  I simply don't agree with it and find it more than mildly objectionable. 
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Justan
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 09:49:45 AM »
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It’s a sad commentary that self-image issues are still prominent in the 21st century. Corporations use people’s self-image insecurity to make billions of $$ beyond count. The make-up industry, the designer clothing industry, the handbag industry, the feminine hygiene industry, the underwear industry, the newsprint industry, movies and cable TV industries; the plastic surgery and diet industries. The list goes on and on. These groups have essentially packaged an ideal form of women and rams it down their throats to “encourage” them meet that perception. Women get bombarded with pressure about this from the time they are first introduced to society until they die.

In turn, a video such as the one we’ve seen is rare enough that some will reasonably call it a great presentation about some who resist this overwhelming pile of BS that is the packaging for the ideal woman.

Women have far more pressure than men about this kind of thing. All guys need by way of things are  jeans, a Euro car, bags made by Saddleback leather, and of course some believe that dangling a big telephoto lens from their camera doesn’t hurt their perception of being attractive. In contrast, women are abused by nearly everyone around them to live up to a fantasy.
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KLaban
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 11:33:57 AM »
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and of course some believe that dangling a big telephoto lens from their camera doesn’t hurt their perception of being attractive.

Thankfully the penis extension worn around the neck by the sad and clueless has little correlation with dysmorphia, anorexia, phobia, depression, self harm...

On the other hand the "beauty industry"…
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Justan
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 12:47:27 PM »
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Quote
Thankfully the penis extension worn around the neck by the sad and clueless has little correlation with dysmorphia, anorexia, phobia, depression, self harm...

Not sure that is more than marginally true. There is a fairly direct relationship between consumerism and depression, and it’s many –ia and –ion flavors. The promotion of consumerism is in most ways done to exploit perceived insecurities and contrived needs.

Ddysmorphia is different kind of issue.
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Rob C
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 04:43:59 PM »
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I wonder if many of the folks taking up these anti-beauty attitudes have had girl children?

It has been my observation that bringing up one girl and one boy teaches a hell of a lot about the realities of sex and sexual development in children. I really don’t care what theoreticians might or might not claim to the contrary, it was very apparent from the very earliest moments that, beyond the obvious physique, boy and girl children are different animals. Little girls grow up wanting to be little girls playing at being their mamas; from raiding the shoe rack to playing with makeup, it’s in the genes, as is almost everything else in life, including art whether with brush, pencil, clay or camera. It has bugger all to do with tv and advertising. Our kids saw hardly any tv at all. Sure, Vogue, ‘Bazaar, Nova, Playboy were in the house, just lying about, but nobody other than myself and sometimes my wife gave a damn or looked at them. Wait! My mother-in-law used to be interested; she’d guess – very accurately – which of the pictures in Playboy would be the ones I liked.

The idea of looking ‘pretty’ comes from within. Some have the luck to grow into beautiful people and others lose their early charm and go the other way. Why is it such a popular idea here to imagine that people are so pathetic that their only ambition in life is to be someone else out of the movies or the tv screen? I find it amazing to read that there is something wrong with women (or men) wanting to look as good as they can look; if makeup, clothes etc, help people feel that they have made the most of themselves, then good for them! Anyway, I don’t know about the States, but during the war there were very few tv sets in the UK and no channels running that I’m aware of, at least I never saw any. And commercial tv and its ads didn’t happen in the UK until much later during the 50s at the earliest. So, from where did the people of the war years and all the centuries prior to that get their crazy ideas of wanting to look good? The moon? The sun? No, it was always there as part of civilization. Ask the Egyptians, the Greeks and the Romans and all the rest of them which channels they watched, which commercials ruined their lives, which magazines corrupted their youth with dreams of beauty... it’s just being human. If you can’t cut it, then too bad, but don’t try to ruin it for those who can get something out of it.

There’s all this bitching about the evil empires of advertising, clothing and the cosmetic industries and the money they make (sometimes – they can, and also some do, go bust); these industries give us, photographers, out best jobs; they provide production and selling work for millions and the money they make filters through into the world at large. Are there still people here who believe that Mr Big or whatever takes it all into his arms and buries it in some vault somewhere? No, it gets spent, invested and generally spread around to the greater good. Most rich folks I’ve met don’t sit on their money, they invest it. (One such said to me: money in the bank’s a stinking fish.) And that investment means work for somebody else. To be selfish about it: I prefer to see folks looking good, and I like them to smell good, too.

You know what I think? I think that taking a negative stance about women looking good, their trying to look good, is about as misogynistic as attitudes can get, but, perversely, it comes disguised as love for women.

Rob C
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2012, 05:52:30 PM »
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Again, Rob, you're missing the point entirely.  Say that you're not, it doesn't matter.  You are.  You're so far out in left field wrt the point that the video is making and that others in this discussion are making that you're out of the park. 
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kencameron
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2012, 06:18:32 PM »
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There are many forms of beauty and what advertising is doing is telling us that there is only one form of beauty and if you don't conform you're not beautiful.  

I think I may be about to join Rob outside the park.

Part of the problem here is the use of the term "beauty" to cover too much of what is admirable or excellent or pleasing about people. Scientific research into beauty looks at what we actually consider pleasing about other people's appearance and doesn't support the notion that there are many forms of it. Of course there are some cross-cultural variations, particularly around proportions of body fat, but qualities like symmetry and smoothness tend to rate highly with almost all of us. If you don't possess these qualities then you are, in a precise sense, not beautiful, and there is no point pretending otherwise.

Of course, this approach doesn't cast any light on how people feel about the range of qualities that come under the heading of "inner beauty" or on the ultimate importance of "inner" and "outer" beauty. To get at what are essentially qualities of character rather than appearance, you would have to ask an entirely different set of questions, and scientists have also done that. Generosity and courage tend to rate highly across cultures. The challenging question in this territory is whether there is any statistical correlation between inner and outer beauty. Are "beautiful people" statistically kinder or braver? Maybe life is kinder to them and that nourishes their inner beauty. Of course, there would be heaps of exceptions.

Inner beauty, of course, doesn't sell most products - maybe some - I could see it selling something like superannuation - something involving deferred rather than immediate gratification. I think it is a little bit naive to demonize the advertising industry because we don't agree with our culture's relative valuations of appearance and inner beauty. I certainly think we over-value the former but that is "our" problem and not to be blamed on "them". Wisdom about such things is something we all have to achieve as individuals and is never gifted by a culture.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 06:21:58 PM by kencameron » Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2012, 06:36:52 PM »
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Brilliant...

I usually refrain from clicking on links where the poster does not give a clue what it is about. But, given the subsequent discussion, I did.

Big mistake!

Spoiled my day and seems like I will be scarred and haunted by ugliness for the rest of the week. There should be some warning before watching such videos. Where is the Film Rating Committee when you need one? How about "Rated PU" for Public Ugliness? Angry

If "Beauty Industry" exploits beauty for profit, movies like these exploit ugliness for someone's political purposes.
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WalterEG
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 06:45:58 PM »
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Then there are folk like me who revere the aberration: who glorify the alleged 'imperfection'.

We are all, each and every one of us, are first and foremost PEOPLE and we share in a common humanity which, sadly, seems not to be exercised with either sufficient vigour or frequency.




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« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 06:47:57 PM by WalterEG » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 06:52:10 PM »
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It’s a sad commentary that self-image issues are still prominent in the 21st century. Corporations use people’s self-image insecurity...

Damn right!

It is high time that humanity gets rid of its thousand years adoration of beauty. Time to correct historical injustice towards ugly people. Perhaps even reparations are in order for all the pain and suffering they endured. I urge you to write to your congressman and demand that ugliness be included into the list of protected species, together with race, gender, etc.

Just stopping the injustice is not enough. Time for some affirmative action:

- from now on, colleges should assign extra points for ugliness during admission
- beauty magazines should have at least 2/3 of ugly people on their covers
- the same for flight attendants (wait, scratch that... already implemented)
- Hollywood A-List as well (new Bond is a good start)

Beautiful people should be considered politically incorrect and denied roles and promotions until and unless they prove they can hide or permanently scar that beauty, or at least wear burkas in public.
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Slobodan

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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2012, 06:54:11 PM »
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Then there are folk like me who revere the aberration: who glorify the alleged 'imperfection'....

At least the OP posted a link. Your post is more like a visual grenade. Huh
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Slobodan

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