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Author Topic: D800E and moire - calling all studio shooters  (Read 16378 times)
griffithimage
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« on: August 31, 2012, 10:52:28 AM »
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Calling all you fashion shooters out there, now there are a few lucky ones out there with the Nikon 800e - are there any complaints regarding moire? This topic has been covered quite a bit on this site for landscape shooters but I wanted to hear from studio types.
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 07:11:09 PM »
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Hello,

Did a road trip on the weekend to a beautiful little town called Te Aroha 2 hours south of Auckland. As I was looking at some of the old buildings I took this with the Nikon D800E. As you can see not having a AA filter does have it drawbacks.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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TMARK
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 07:14:39 PM »
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I get moire in the studio, but no more so than with the 1ds3 and 5d2.  What throws me is when I'm outside and get moire.  I'm just not used to seeing it in grab shots.

I get less moire in studio than I do from the Aptus 75s.
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 08:43:52 PM »
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Hello,

Did a road trip on the weekend to a beautiful little town called Te Aroha 2 hours south of Auckland. As I was looking at some of the old buildings I took this with the Nikon D800E. As you can see not having a AA filter does have it drawbacks.

Cheers

Simon
This looks like you've got fine wire window screens over mini-blinds which is a perfect storm for moire formation even without a camera.
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Ellis Vener
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 09:43:00 PM »
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Hi,

Thanks for posting. Which aperture did you use? Reason I ask that it is expected that diffraction would limit moiré at small apertures.

Do you see that often? Or is this just exception?

I also noticed that the grass in front of the house has odd looks.

Best regards
Erik


Hello,

Did a road trip on the weekend to a beautiful little town called Te Aroha 2 hours south of Auckland. As I was looking at some of the old buildings I took this with the Nikon D800E. As you can see not having a AA filter does have it drawbacks.

Cheers

Simon
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Gulag
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 12:09:29 AM »
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Hello,

Did a road trip on the weekend to a beautiful little town called Te Aroha 2 hours south of Auckland. As I was looking at some of the old buildings I took this with the Nikon D800E. As you can see not having a AA filter does have it drawbacks.

Cheers

Simon

That can be fixed in Photoshop quickly. Healthy dosage of GB on both A and B channels in LAB should fix it in less than 20 seconds.



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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 01:13:13 AM »
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Sometimes I get that same amount of moire with my 5D2. The 5Dv1 was even worse.
Eduardo
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 03:48:43 AM »
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That can be fixed in Photoshop quickly. Healthy dosage of GB on both A and B channels in LAB should fix it in less than 20 seconds.

Hi,

I wouldn't call that fixed. The false colors are gone, but the luminance moiré remains.

Cheers,
Bart
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 03:55:44 AM »
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Did a road trip on the weekend to a beautiful little town called Te Aroha 2 hours south of Auckland. As I was looking at some of the old buildings I took this with the Nikon D800E. As you can see not having a AA filter does have it drawbacks.

Hi Simon,

May I ask which Rawconverter you used? The new CaptureOne Pro 7 has improved considerably and produces less obvious aliasing artifacts (even without the moiré tool) as far as the demosaicing part of the equation is concerned, compared to the previous version. Of course that cannot counteract the optical aliasing which is unavoidable in a system without OLPF, but it looks less obvious.

Cheers,
Bart
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Gulag
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2012, 12:21:09 PM »
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Hi,

I wouldn't call that fixed. The false colors are gone, but the luminance moiré remains.

Cheers,
Bart

Zoom to 1:1 first. If you are still picky, then addition dosage of frequency separation for the problem area will perform magic.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 01:00:11 PM by mshi2008 » Logged

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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2012, 04:24:54 PM »
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Hello,

The lens is a new Nikon 24-85mm VR lens which I bought as a walk around and for scouting. The F stop was F9.0.

I did a shot on Friday last of a business man and his very expensive suit also had some moiré in it as well as a a female athlete I shot a few weeks ago had moire in her Lycra suit around her breasts.

I'm not sure what you mean about the grass?

The raw converter I use is ACR CS6. I have had a look with Phase 7 but I could not see any improvement than what I got from ACR.

Off subject I did a comparison yesterday with a Leaf Aptus 75 image at 400ISO in the new Phase 7 and ACR CS6 and in my opinion the ACR did a better job in cleaning up the colour noise.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 10:24:00 PM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
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MarkL
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2012, 04:47:46 PM »
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I have seen moire twice so far both times in material of clothes when the weave of the fabric has been very fine, pretty easy to remove with moire brush and then frequency separation to put the fabric detail back in. Only occurred on a few frames and only one specific area was affected, the others at a slightly different distance were fine. It shows just how the bigger resolution affects moire that the fabric detail has to be that fine to trigger it. As a torture test I shot a nude pair of womens tights (pantyhose in the US?) at different distances and boy can that trigger luminance moire!

All in all I have had far far more moire problems with my Fuji X100, I'd like to see a test between the E and normal D800 for a moire inducing subject though.



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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2012, 10:49:40 PM »
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Hi,

OK, so we still get color moiré at f/9.

Thanks a lot for the info.

Best regards
Erik

Hello,

The lens is a new Nikon 24-85mm VR lens which I bought as a walk around and for scouting. The F stop was F9.0.

I did a shot on Friday last of a business man and his very expensive suit also had some moiré in it as well as a a female athlete I shot a few weeks ago had moire in her Lycra suit around her breasts.

I'm not sure what you mean about the grass?

The raw converter I use is ACR CS6. I have had a look with Phase 7 but I could not see any improvement than what I got from ACR.

Off subject I did a comparison yesterday with a Leaf Aptus 75 image at 400ISO in the new Phase 7 and ACR CS6 and in my opinion the ACR did a better job in cleaning up the colour noise.

Cheers

Simon
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kers
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2012, 06:49:21 AM »
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...OK, so we still get color moiré at f/9....

From what i have seen you have it all  the way to d16 only it gets less pronounced.
But I am very pleased i do not have it more than with the d3x- also because - as stated above- the pattern must be very fine due to the 36MP.
Doing architecture it is a non issue for me.
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Pieter Kers
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2012, 06:59:14 AM »
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I agree the choice of the raw converter can make the difference when you have a moiré issue.
From my experience with the d800e  ACR is showing it more often than others like NX2 and PhotoNinja.
I have an example here where ACR CS6 shows a heavy moire pattern where PhotoNinja resolves the pattern with ease without any traces of moiré.
( But i have not made a study of that )
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 08:26:31 AM by kers » Logged

Pieter Kers
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2012, 07:16:28 AM »
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Should have mentioned my shots were at f/13 and f/9 with a sigma 85mm.
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MichaelEzra
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2012, 09:23:56 AM »
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... I took this with the Nikon D800E. As you can see not having a AA filter does have it drawbacks...

Hi Simon, did you try the same image with RawTherapee? The default demosaicing algorithm in RawTherapee (Amaze) works well on suppressing moire. This is a very heavy moire case and it will likely not remove it completely, but I suspect that Amaze might handle this image better than ACR. If you could share raw I can convert it for comparison.

michael
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bjanes
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2012, 10:57:32 AM »
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The lens is a new Nikon 24-85mm VR lens which I bought as a walk around and for scouting. The F stop was F9.0.
Simon

Simon,

As an aside, I would be interested in your opinion (as a sophisticated user) of this new lens. I am interested in a walk around lens for my D800e. I saw played around with it the other day at my local Costco (USA discount warehouse) and it was compact and did not seem overly wobbly with its plastic construction.

Other considerations are the new 24-120 f/4, but is is more bulky and not really pro grade despite its pro-grade price. The 24-70 is quite bulky as well as expensive and has limited range. I have the old 35-70 f/2.8 which is sharp and also the old 28-105  f/3.5-f/4.5 D from my film days and have been using these in the meantime. Of course, they can't utilize full resolution of the D800 but give adequate results for small prints and the web. I prefer to save my money for primes and am considering the Zeiss 130 f/2 Apo-Sonnar when it comes out. What do you think?

Thanks,

Bill
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2012, 04:36:03 PM »
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Hello,

Kers I just downloaded PhotoNinja and yes it does reduce the colour moiré.

Michael I downloaded RawTherapee and I didn’t see any improvement in the shot but saying that I have had no experience with both software’s and their interfaces.

Bill I have only had the lens for a couple of weeks and I am very impressed with the resolution. I did however try a number of this lens and found they are not created equal so I would strongly recommend that you try before you buy.

The great thing of course is the VR. My lady and I went to the local museum in Te Aroha and hand holding inside at 8th sec I was still getting sharp images and the lens is just a nice size and weight.

Like you for my paying jobs I go for primes or the pro grade zooms from Nikon but 24-85mm VR is what it is and does a good job at it.

1st shot: 24mm F5.0, 8th Sec, 800 ISO
2nd Shot: 24mm F5.0, 30th Sec, 800 ISO
3rd Shot: 24mm F7.1, 500th Sec, ISO 100  4 shots stitched.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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bjanes
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2012, 07:09:16 PM »
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Bill I have only had the lens for a couple of weeks and I am very impressed with the resolution. I did however try a number of this lens and found they are not created equal so I would strongly recommend that you try before you buy.

The great thing of course is the VR. My lady and I went to the local museum in Te Aroha and hand holding inside at 8th sec I was still getting sharp images and the lens is just a nice size and weight.

Like you for my paying jobs I go for primes or the pro grade zooms from Nikon but 24-85mm VR is what it is and does a good job at it.

1st shot: 24mm F5.0, 8th Sec, 800 ISO
2nd Shot: 24mm F5.0, 30th Sec, 800 ISO
3rd Shot: 24mm F7.1, 500th Sec, ISO 100  4 shots stitched.

Simon,

Thanks for the feedback and the images. The lens does look good for a walk around. The VR is can help make up for the relatively modest aperture and with a walk around one is not shooting from a tripod with liveview and mirror lockup, so the perhaps the resolution is most of what one can expect handheld. The New Zealand landscape is beautiful. I hope I can visit someday.

Regards,

Bill
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