Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Review: Linhof Techno  (Read 6203 times)
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« on: September 03, 2012, 05:53:57 AM »
ReplyReply

I've finally completed a review of the Linhof Techno digital field view camera:

http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/photography/linhof-techno-review.html

It doubles as an introduction to technical cameras in general, so for experienced users there is a bit more information in there than needed. I hope someone finds it useful and/or entertaining. It also contains a focus precision test, as ground glass focusing is something many worry about in the digital era.

(seems like my poor provider's web server has a bit trouble in delivering pictures sometimes so if some picture seems broken just reload it)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 07:35:44 AM by torger » Logged
Gigi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 422


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 07:56:33 AM »
ReplyReply

Wonderful. Of particular interest is the "user experience" which is captured here very well. One of the best reviews of this kind of gear. 
Logged

Geoff
Dick Roadnight
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1730


« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 08:19:02 AM »
ReplyReply

I believe that the Sinar P3 can be used with lenses as short as 35mm, and, even with the 47XL, with stitching you can get 100 degrees of field of view.

I think you failed to mention that "proper" view cameras give a full range of yaw-free movements on each standard?
Logged

Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
yaya
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1137



WWW
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 08:41:55 AM »
ReplyReply

I believe that the Sinar P3 can be used with lenses as short as 35mm, and, even with the 47XL, with stitching you can get 100 degrees of field of view.

I think you failed to mention that "proper" view cameras give a full range of yaw-free movements on each standard?

The Techno is a lightweight field camera

The P3 is a heavyweight studio camera and is a pain with WA lenses
Logged

Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
e: ysh@mamiyaleaf.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
Sareesh Sudhakaran
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 547


WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 09:30:05 AM »
ReplyReply

Wow, that's an excellent review. Thanks for sharing!
Logged

Get the Free Comprehensive Guide to Rigging ANY Camera - one guide to rig them all - DSLRs to the Arri Alexa.
gerald.d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 09:31:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Just started reading this. Very much looking forward to it.

But...

Quote
Generally less limited in movements than view cameras.

More limited, I think you mean Smiley
Logged
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 09:41:47 AM »
ReplyReply

I believe that the Sinar P3 can be used with lenses as short as 35mm, and, even with the 47XL, with stitching you can get 100 degrees of field of view.

I think you failed to mention that "proper" view cameras give a full range of yaw-free movements on each standard?

Thanks for the feedback. I do mention it but the article is of course rather long and the statements are embedded in there somewhere :-)

This: "I suggest using the shorter macro lenses rather than the longer which makes tilt/swings less limiting, but you won't get as good macro capability as a studio-based view camera which has large tilts and swings on both front and back standard." and this: "This means that modern technical cameras are often more limited concerning movements than yesterday's 4x5" cameras. Only the studio view cameras have kept the full flexibility, at the cost of not being able to use ultra-wides efficiently, and being large and heavy."

I could better describe what the exact limits on the wides are however but it is hard for me to find. There's one thing to be able to put in a triple-recessed board with a 23mm there, another to be able to perform movements in that configuration. I did not find that to be too important though, because the Linhof Techno's use case is out in the field and the greatest competitor is really the pancake cameras from Alpa, Arca-Swiss and Cambo.
Logged
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 09:43:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Just started reading this. Very much looking forward to it.

But...

More limited, I think you mean Smiley

Don't you know less is more?   Wink

Thanks, fixed it.
Logged
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2012, 04:41:08 PM »
ReplyReply

So, the rumour was true. Linhof just released a new ground glass for the Techno. I guess this means I must redo all my tedious focusing experiments :-)


New Groundglasses for System Linhof M679 und Linhof Techno

The new Groundglasses are extreme fine and allows easier composition and focusing even with extremely short focal lengths.
These Groundglasses replace the no longer available Acute groundglass.

Technical details
Code 021850-S Groundglass scoring 49x37 mm
Code 021851-S Groundglass scoring 53,9x40,4 mm
Code 021852-S Groundglass scoring 56x36 mm
Logged
ChristopherBarrett
Guest
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2012, 08:42:26 PM »
ReplyReply

Nice write-up, Anders!  Just so ya know, I compose exclusively on the groundglass of my Rm3d and don't even own Arca's viewfinder.  I find the whole viewfinder idea ridiculous.  My digi back and Arca system were a $60k investment.  Why would anyone spend that kind of money to make photographs of only approximate composition?

CB
Logged
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 01:49:47 AM »
ReplyReply

Nice write-up, Anders!  Just so ya know, I compose exclusively on the groundglass of my Rm3d and don't even own Arca's viewfinder.  I find the whole viewfinder idea ridiculous.  My digi back and Arca system were a $60k investment.  Why would anyone spend that kind of money to make photographs of only approximate composition?

CB

Thanks! I changed the wording a bit to more clearly say that people do use ground glass on those systems too :-), I still don't think it is that common though.

I have been sitting around waiting for Linhof to launch this new ground glass mentioned above and had the wrong scoring size meanwhile so I have worked a bit approximate and making final adjustments if any when seeing the LCD result, I think it worked quite well. With a faster newer back it probably works even better. So I don't think those that don't use the ground glass makes approximate compositions in the end, but may start with that.
Logged
chrisschmidphoto
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 12:06:13 AM »
ReplyReply

Very informative review, thanks! I'm using a Linhof Techno with the IQ180 for landscape photography and I am very happy with it. The new ground glass in frame is at least 4 stops brighter than the old one and makes using the camera with wa lenses a breeze. You will need a loupe with a square opening in order to get into the corners of the recessed ground glass though. Linhof Studio UK offers a Silvestri 12x loupe, which works fine for me.

Best regards,
Chris

CHRISTOPHER SCHMID PHOTOGRAPHY
www.chrisschmidphoto.ch
Logged
greygrad
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2013, 09:16:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Is it 4 stops brighter than the old standard ground glass or the acute one?

If it's that much brighter than the acute one then wow ... swore I wouldn't buy another ground glass ... but might just have to.
Logged
chrisschmidphoto
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 10:34:44 AM »
ReplyReply

I'd say its at least 4 stops brighter than the old standard ground glass/fresnel combination.
Logged
siebel
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 59


WWW
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 05:54:19 PM »
ReplyReply

Nice write-up, Anders!  Just so ya know, I compose exclusively on the groundglass of my Rm3d and don't even own Arca's viewfinder.  I find the whole viewfinder idea ridiculous.  My digi back and Arca system were a $60k investment.  Why would anyone spend that kind of money to make photographs of only approximate composition?

CB

Interesting. I don't have a viewfinder for my Alpa STC either. Like you, I find I need far more precision for most of my work. On the fly, I shoot a frame and compose on the screen of the IQ back (this is most of my industrial work which is fast and furious) or wherever possible, I tether, giving me the best viewfinder of all - my 15in Retina screen. In situations where I am shooting handheld from a moving platform, such as when suspended from cranes on construction sites, I simply hold the camera up and view directly over the top, much as I do a shotgun. With practice, I find I am about as accurate as with the viewfinder, and much faster.
Logged

Bryan Siebel

In the end, it's all about the image.
www.bryansiebel.com
Smoothjazz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2014, 12:08:09 PM »
ReplyReply

Anders,

Great review; very thorough, and you certainly know your optics!!
I wanted to ask you if you have any thoughts about the newer Linhof ground glass, particularly if it helps with ability to fine focus images on the ground glass.
I have two medium format cameras, but am struggling with the best way to focus a technical camera, and am considering getting a Techno with the sliding back. I miss seeing an image on the ground glass!
Another option is to use the Linhof sliding back on a Cambo technical camera.
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2838


WWW
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2014, 02:27:07 PM »
ReplyReply

Anders,

Great review; very thorough, and you certainly know your optics!!
I wanted to ask you if you have any thoughts about the newer Linhof ground glass, particularly if it helps with ability to fine focus images on the ground glass.
I have two medium format cameras, but am struggling with the best way to focus a technical camera, and am considering getting a Techno with the sliding back. I miss seeing an image on the ground glass!
Another option is to use the Linhof sliding back on a Cambo technical camera.

Arca Swiss also has a sliding back option on all r bodies and Cambo just released a new model with built in ground glass.
Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2014, 05:44:03 AM »
ReplyReply

Anders,

Great review; very thorough, and you certainly know your optics!!
I wanted to ask you if you have any thoughts about the newer Linhof ground glass, particularly if it helps with ability to fine focus images on the ground glass.
I have two medium format cameras, but am struggling with the best way to focus a technical camera, and am considering getting a Techno with the sliding back. I miss seeing an image on the ground glass!
Another option is to use the Linhof sliding back on a Cambo technical camera.

Thanks. Further down on the loooong review page there's a mini review of the new ground glass, which I now have used for 9 months. The gain is image brightness for wide angles. The grain is not finer than on the standard ground glass, which is already very good. Some say that the new ground glass is "snappier", ie it's easier to see when something goes in and out of focus, but when I tested them side by side I could not detect such a difference.

Still I strongly recommend the new ground glass if you work with lenses shorter than 75mm, the brightness is very much appreciated.

The Silvestri/Linhof studio 12x loupe is a "must", you really need a strong loupe to focus digital backs on ground glass. I actually use a 20x belomo loupe myself most of the time (I own the 12x too), but I think most users will prefer the field of view / magnification balance of the 12x. Backorder time for the 12x has been really bad (I waited 6 months or so for mine), so it can be a good idea to order one if they still have stock.

Ground glass focusing is still limited in its precision, grain is only that fine. I'd say that with training you'll focus consistently correctly for f/11 and smaller apertures, but larger apertures will be hit-and-miss. On the other hand, tech cam photography with larger apertures than f/11 does not make much sense, you'll get a very small depth of field which is hard to work with, performance of shifted lenses will be a bit poor, and you'll get aliasing issues on the fine details. If you really need to focus at say f/8 or even f/5.6 ground glass is not the answer, then you should use a pancake camera like Arca-Swiss RM3Di with high precision focusing ring and use a laser distance meter or other way to find the exact distance to your target.

Tech cam lenses are small aperture and symmetrical or very weakly retrofocus. This means that the image will always be dimmer than for say a Hasselblad 500 or a modern SLR, so you won't get a very nice large SLR viewfinder type of experience, it will be dim and for wides you'll need to move your head around a bit to get a proper view of the full frame. So it won't be great in any way you look at it, but I don't feel limited about it, and actually find it a bit charming old-school.

My review includes photos of the new ground glass with wide angle on it where I've tried to mimic the look of the web jpeg so it looks as similar as possible to the "real experience" so you can judge for yourself. Here's the image, new vs old. Do read the review as it has more details though.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 05:47:48 AM by torger » Logged
tjv
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 55


« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2014, 06:00:02 AM »
ReplyReply

That's a pretty dramatic increase in illumination, Anders! From the looks of it, it's definitely worth the money over the standard ground glass.
Logged
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2014, 08:40:45 AM »
ReplyReply

That's a pretty dramatic increase in illumination, Anders! From the looks of it, it's definitely worth the money over the standard ground glass.

Yes it is. However, note that at 120mm the new ground glass is actually darker. The reason for this is that the built-in fresnel is designed for wider angles, and thus you lose some at the long end. I use the 120 and 180mm regularly and since a long lens is much brighter overall than a wide angle the light loss is no practical problem. But for a studio M679cs doing table top photography I'd probably use the standard ground glass. Another property of the new ground glass worth knowing is that the glass area is smaller, not big enough for film and you can't see the full frame of the clickstop-3-stitch feature the sliding back has, so if one uses that feature a lot the standard ground glass is a better choice.

The SK35 shown in the example is of course a "worst case" lens, the Rodenstock wides are a bit retrofocus and a bit wider aperture so those get a bit brighter. I think the SK35 is alright to work with though. In the example image I did not use any center filters, but in the field I have the center filters on always, which make the center even dimmer, but I still find it workable. When it's a bit dim light conditions like in the example indoor scene and I use the SK35 I use the ground glass mainly for focusing and "corner placement" and I look beside the camera on the real scene to understand the composition.

I think many are a bit too afraid of ground glass, the first experience with a wide angle can be a bit shocking, but once you get the hang of it it works. Still the future live view capable backs is going to be great for Linhof, I'm sure their Techno sales will increase. A problem with the recent IQ250 is that it doesn't do wide angles that well, so while it's probably great for longer lenses and thus tech applications like table top photography it's not that great for wide angles, so we still need to enjoy the ground glass for yet some time Smiley
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 08:57:05 AM by torger » Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad