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Author Topic: Thanks for the DP2M review!  (Read 11001 times)
WilliamK
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 07:39:14 PM »
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The bit about "camera pussies" made me laugh, even if, by Michael Reichmann's definition, I am one.  I always look forward to new pieces written by Michael himself.  He knows how to keep it real.
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bobtowery
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« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2012, 04:39:05 PM »
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Michael, in a previous review of a pocket cam you mentioned "being an old fart, I want a viewfinder, I don't want to hold the camera at arm's length to take a picture!" (Paraphrasing from memory.)

So, are you just "past that" at this point, or is the value proposition of this particular camera strong enough to outweigh that feature? I see you did not indicate lack of a viewfinder as a "con" for this camera.

Just curious.
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JackWinberg
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« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2012, 05:10:48 PM »
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There has been a LOT of discussion for some years now about Sigma's tenacious hold on the Foveon technology.  There was some hope, with their recent change in leadership, that a licensing agreement with Nikon or Canon might be forthcoming, but it certainly does not appear to be in the works.

Alas, too bad, it would seem to be in everyone's best interests if they were to do so!

Jack Winberg
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LesPalenik
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2012, 09:12:52 PM »
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Michael writes in his article:
Quote
Now (August, 2012) with a current promotion on the new SD1 Merrill is priced at $1,999.

It seems that Vistek in Toronto didn't get that memo. As of September 7, they are still listing SD1 (body only) on their website for $8,999.
 
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MrScott
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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2012, 02:00:53 AM »
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Michael, in a previous review of a pocket cam you mentioned "being an old fart, I want a viewfinder, I don't want to hold the camera at arm's length to take a picture!" (Paraphrasing from memory.)

So, are you just "past that" at this point, or is the value proposition of this particular camera strong enough to outweigh that feature? I see you did not indicate lack of a viewfinder as a "con" for this camera.

Just curious.

I'm not Michael, but he once mentioned somewhere that he uses the Voigtlaender 40mm viewfinder with the Sigma.
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michael
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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2012, 08:31:34 AM »
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Michael writes in his article:
It seems that Vistek in Toronto didn't get that memo. As of September 7, they are still listing SD1 (body only) on their website for $8,999.
 

Sometime Visteks pricing is a joke. Just go in and show them B&H's pricing. They usually try and match.

M
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2012, 09:44:51 AM »
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Hard to say. The 800 is king of the hill at the moment, but due to its weight and bulk it is only used from the car or on a deliberate shoot. But if I find myself heading somewhere with photo possibilities it's now the DP2M that in my jacket pocket.
Michael, I see how much do you like the DP2M despite its weak point.
Having read also the RX100 review and knowing how different the two cameras truly are, may I know why do you prefer to bring the DP2M over an RX100 when not knowing what you're going to shoot?
I mean, it's good but so less flexible.

Thank you in advance.
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michael
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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2012, 01:55:41 PM »
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It's all about image quality. The RX100 is very convenient and has very good image quality for most applications.

The DP2m is like carrying around a Nikon D800 or MF back when it comes to image quality though.

I just spoke with a friend, who like me shoots with a D800e and an Alpa with Phase 180 back. He has made some 24 x30 prints, and his comment was without doing silly side by side comparisons all that he'd say is that if you had to hang the Sigma prints at that size next to ones taken with the Nikon or Phase he would have no hesitation. They compare vety favouably And this is from someone whose work is regularly exhibited in galleries and museums and knows whereof he speaks. I agree wholeheartedly with his conclusions.

Michael
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Quentin
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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2012, 02:37:44 PM »
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There has been a LOT of discussion for some years now about Sigma's tenacious hold on the Foveon technology.  There was some hope, with their recent change in leadership, that a licensing agreement with Nikon or Canon might be forthcoming, but it certainly does not appear to be in the works.

Alas, too bad, it would seem to be in everyone's best interests if they were to do so!

Jack Winberg

Not in Sigma's best interest.  Why should they share their crown jewels?  Also what exactly have they done wrong with the DP2M?  Nothing.  Good luck to Sigma.  Foveon is in good hands.

Quote

... it's good but so less flexible.


The RX100 (which I also have) is in an entirely different - lower - league.  I cannot think of any situation where I would use the RX100 if the DP2M was even a remote posibility for the shot.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 02:41:22 PM by Quentin » Logged

Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
mac_paolo
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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2012, 04:45:13 PM »
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The RX100 (which I also have) is in an entirely different - lower - league.  I cannot think of any situation where I would use the RX100 if the DP2M was even a remote posibility for the shot.
I wouldn't either. My point is that I differentiate between "I know I'm going to take good shots" and "I feel I may get some nice shots".
Best DSLR for the former and flexible enthusiast compact for the latter. IMHO, these Sigmas may let me capture some great shots, and miss a whole lot more. That's it.
In any case, kudos to Sigma for their great technology. Smiley
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peterzpicts
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« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2012, 08:36:12 PM »
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Thanks for your always spot on honesty. The SD1 was overpriced and full of bugs as you explained better than most. It is really interesting in how Sigma seems to be much more attentive now to their products pricing and performance.  Kazuto Yamaki has done a lot of good stuff fixing the bugs and pricing of the SD1 and rolling out the Merrill series. I appreciate little things like the addition of CA correction in SPP to help with the sensitivity of the new generation X3 sensor. Plus all the products shipped in a timely manner unlike past monumental slips like the SD15 of over a year. The first folks are getting their DP1Ms yeah!
I look forward to what shows up at Photokina, many will prognosticate I hope the positive trend continues to flourish.
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markd61
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« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2012, 08:17:52 PM »
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There has been a LOT of discussion for some years now about Sigma's tenacious hold on the Foveon technology.  There was some hope, with their recent change in leadership, that a licensing agreement with Nikon or Canon might be forthcoming, but it certainly does not appear to be in the works.

Alas, too bad, it would seem to be in everyone's best interests if they were to do so!

Jack Winberg

Even if they were willing, we have no idea if Nikon or Canon would be interested. Considering their investments in their current sensors it does seem they may have little interest in jumping to Terra Incognita with the Foveon. Also, if Sigma ever falls on hard times they can pick it up for a song.
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AFairley
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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2012, 10:21:52 AM »
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Michael, can you tell me how great the overcoverage of the Voigtlander optical VF is on the DP2M with its slightly longer focal length?  Thinking of one of those or the one for the Sigma DP2 instead of trying to track down the official Sigma finder.
Thanks!
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michael
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« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2012, 11:07:06 AM »
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Not a big deal for me. I just use it to judge the rough framing of a shot before turning on the camera.

Michael
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kwalsh
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« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2012, 07:24:49 PM »
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There has been a LOT of discussion for some years now about Sigma's tenacious hold on the Foveon technology.  There was some hope, with their recent change in leadership, that a licensing agreement with Nikon or Canon might be forthcoming, but it certainly does not appear to be in the works.

Alas, too bad, it would seem to be in everyone's best interests if they were to do so!

Jack Winberg

Tenacious hold?  Huh?

After the SD14/15 series sensor Sigma didn't give Foveon the time of day.  Never mentioned any interest in any future sensors from Foveon.  Foveon was out beating the bushes desperate to sell their technology to anyone.  Talked with every major vendor.  No one wanted the technology.  Eventually Foveon ran out of cash and got acquired by Sigma for a song.  At this point they appear very committed to continuing to develop and manufacture this technology.  There is, however, absolutely no reason to imagine why any of the other vendors would have changed their opinion - likely none of them would license the technology if offered.  It was already offered and they all refused.

Ken
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douglasf13
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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2012, 01:38:02 PM »
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Hi, Michael.  This may be a silly question, but have you tried the Sigma 30/2.8 EX DN on your NEX-7?  That lens is almost identical in design to the DP2M's lens, outside of the rear correcting  elements, and it is the sharpest lens I've used on the NEX-7.  To quote someone else, it's like lifting a veil off of the NEX-7.  I'd be curious if you've compared that lens on the NEX-7 with the DP2M's output.  Thanks!

p.s.  there is also a 19mm Sigma, but the design is not as similar as the DP1M's lens.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2012, 03:40:49 PM »
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Michael, many thanks for the Sigma DP2M review! ... I purchased the SD1 when they reduced the price, especially to work with infrared (but I have even more enjoyed using it for color).

Infrared? Now I am really interested if this is also available with the DP2M.

From what I am reading about the DP2M, it sounds like a right royal pain in the backside most of the time, but the image quality makes it all worthwhile - but if it is also easy to swap into infrared mode!!

Can anyone elaborate more for me on the infrared side of things for the DP2M please? Perhaps an update to your review Michael??

Good to read your review Michael on the DP2M, we are all wishing the best for you and a speedy recovery Smiley

Dave
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BarbaraArmstrong
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« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2012, 12:35:02 PM »
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I'm not Michael (obviously), but I'd be really surprised if one could modify the DP2M for infrared use in the easy manner that is available for the SD1.  The DP2M is an enclosed body with eensy screws that I think you'd have to be a watchmaker or camera repairman to want to fiddle with.  The internal infrared-blocking filter in the SD1 is mounted in a frame (right in front of you when the lens is removed) and is easily popped out.  I  understand it is designed this way to facilitate cleaning the sensor, meaning Sigma actually expects owners to do this!  The filter itself is very very thin and thus quite fragile, so I recommend care and caution in doing this.    As the body of the DP2M is not intended to be opened, I would expect the filter to be more permanently installed.  Also, I think you'd be frustrated trying to make out an image on the back screen.  You need to use an external filter that blocks visible light.  If it blocks everything, there is nothing to be seen, and you have to point the camera "blindly" and just hit the shutter.  (This has actually worked fairly well for me, as you have a sense of the spread you are going to get in your image by knowing the focal length of the lens.  Or you can mount another camera on your tripod with the same effective focal length -- and use that to level and frame your image -- then substitute the camera set up for infrared.)  If that external filter admits a small amount of visible light (as one of my filters does) then, with the SD1, I put a black cloth over my head and the rear of the camera (a la a large format view camera), and you can then see barely enough in the optical viewfinder to frame the image.  I think the DP2M's back screen would be too hard to read, under these conditions, to do this.  Maybe Michael knows something else about the DP2M from his own explorations or any conversations he has had with Sigma.  These experiments can be quite a bit of fun!  And what innocent fun to boot! (Playing with infrared on a camera is a bit like being a kid again!  The green summer scenes end up looking like they were taken in the middle of a winter snowstorm.)  --Barbara
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peterzpicts
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« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2012, 05:40:53 PM »
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You are correct in modifying a DP to take the IR filter out is only for those who know what they are doing or can afford to destroy a camera.
The SD series are a snap to convert, the only camera system I know of that can go back and forth without screwing an IR filter on the front. The filter is fragile, I broke one of mine once showing how it is done.  Sigma will sell you a new one for about 35USD shipped.
The SD is only going to get better with the new lens series being tailored to deliver the kind of resolution that it is capable of. Where as the DP series will be the One Trick Ponies.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2012, 05:33:12 PM »
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I'm not Michael (obviously), but I'd be really surprised if one could modify the DP2M for infrared use in the easy manner that is available for the SD1.  The DP2M is an enclosed body with eensy screws that I think you'd have to be a watchmaker or camera repairman to want to fiddle with. 
--Barbara

Ah that's a shame, I suppose if I had fully engaged brain before asking, then the fixed lens aspect of the DP2M means I should have realised that already, but thanks for the info, I will put my cheque book back in to the drawer for the time being I think.

Dave
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