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Author Topic: Love those Vehicles!!  (Read 42242 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2012, 01:21:47 AM »
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Jan 1st Mini in Kamakura, Japan:



Cheers,
Bernard
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2012, 06:46:08 AM »
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Ahso....do love the classic Mini! Thanks for posting this.
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Rob C
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« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2012, 09:39:42 AM »
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Ahso....do love the classic Mini! Thanks for posting this.


Chris, the original '59 Mini (might have been '60) was a bag of nails (in '59 I got my first new Ford for approximately the very same prýce). It, the Mini, had strings where it should have had handles and was so small as to be practically useless. Had it not been for some fashionable crazies and the vastly modified Monte Carlo rallying versions it would have died in no time at all. I suspect its raison d'ŕtre was to manufacture something that the red unions, doing their very best, couldn't find a way to eff up any further.

On the orther hand, the BMW versions are beautiful, if limited in boot/trunk capacity. I'd quite like one myself, except that here on Mallorca there's only one seller and Rex Motors live in Palma, as far from my base as you can get.

I still see an original one in the Port here, once in a while, and it looks like pale blue shit. Shiny shit, but shit nonetheless. To think people risked their lives taking such things into traffic!

;-)

Rob C
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2012, 10:15:02 AM »
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My take on the risk of a Mini in traffic is that in the older ones, if you got hit it was your own bloody fault because you could turn one on a dime and spit out nine cents change. The newer, BMW versions are so safe in crashes, its sometimes becomes incredulous to believe. We lost one in a rally up in North Carolina last May who left the roadway at a decent rate of speed (45ish mph), over a clif hitting his top headlong into a tree then rolling some 200 feet down an embankment. His only injury other than restraint bruises and airbag burns was a cut he got from some shale as he attempted to crawl back up to the roadway. I saw one not long ago that was hit by a Hummer H2 broadside. The Mini was at a dead standstill and the hummer was going over 30mph. The Hummer driver had to be pried out of his vehicle and taken to the hospital with extensive leg injuries and the Mini driver had a bruised shoulder from the initial impact as the side airbag deployed. She walked.

Many people sniggle at the Mini as an underpowered, overpriced toy. Few are terribly underpowered as they have such great out of the box torque. Some, like mine are built to the hilt and would likely astound you in performance, mountainous or in a straight line. I boast 247 Wheel Horsepower and 235 pounds of Wheel Torque in a car weighing in at 2,200 pounds (1,000 kilos). I have a race cam, race head, alloy pistons and rods, a beefed up supercharger, adjustable front cambers, adjustable rear cambers, antisway bars, extra stiff springs, Brembo brakes, drilled rotors, torsion bars...yadda-yadda-yadda. You'll play hell catching me in the mountains and it is the rare car who can take me in a standing 1/4 mile (A Corvette will just barely nudge me but that's because I have all my torque as soon as I turn the key, and his doesn't catch on until 5,500 RPM). I love my Mini (s) - I have two.

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nemo295
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« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2012, 11:09:04 AM »
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'56 Chevy Bel Air tailfin.
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2012, 01:00:11 PM »
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I'll always have a soft spot in me for a '55-'56'57 Chevy, especially the Bel Aires and the '56-'57 Nomads. My most favorite of the early Chevy's is the '58 Vette.
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Rob C
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« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2012, 02:13:22 PM »
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I'll always have a soft spot in me for a '55-'56'57 Chevy, especially the Bel Aires and the '56-'57 Nomads. My most favorite of the early Chevy's is the '58 Vette.


I love the broad, cat's eyes backside of the earlier Impala.

Rob C
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Rob C
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« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2012, 02:23:02 PM »
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I'd just finished the three cellpix of this Clio and was waking back to the carpark when the car's owner, a very young Arab lad, asked me if he'd been blocking my way out; I laughed and told him no, that I was shooting to wind up my son, an ex-hot Clio fan who'd gone through two, with a Scooby in between, only to return to a Scooby which, for him, is just impossible to do without because it has so much more useable room inside. I've sent him this join - hope it doesn't make him sell again!

I would definitely trade for my Fiesta, but unfortunately, I also find that I have to eat.

Damn.

I think it's nice to listen to this track whilst looking at the car. She's nice to listen to, period.

http://youtu.be/ceYjg1dy-h0

Rob C
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nemo295
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« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2012, 03:54:48 PM »
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'56 Chevy Nomad, tailgate detail.
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nemo295
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« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2012, 03:56:00 PM »
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'61 Chevy Impala, rear seat detail.
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #110 on: September 24, 2012, 04:05:44 PM »
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Do you have a box of these in your garage? You keep pulling them out, one after the other... Grin
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nemo295
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« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2012, 04:09:10 PM »
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Do you have a box of these in your garage? You keep pulling them out, one after the other... Grin

More like a memory card.   Wink
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #112 on: September 24, 2012, 04:19:55 PM »
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Many people sniggle at the Mini as an underpowered, overpriced toy. Few are terribly underpowered as they have such great out of the box torque. Some, like mine are built to the hilt and would likely astound you in performance, mountainous or in a straight line. I boast 247 Wheel Horsepower and 235 pounds of Wheel Torque in a car weighing in at 2,200 pounds (1,000 kilos). I have a race cam, race head, alloy pistons and rods, a beefed up supercharger, adjustable front cambers, adjustable rear cambers, antisway bars, extra stiff springs, Brembo brakes, drilled rotors, torsion bars...yadda-yadda-yadda. You'll play hell catching me in the mountains and it is the rare car who can take me in a standing 1/4 mile (A Corvette will just barely nudge me but that's because I have all my torque as soon as I turn the key, and his doesn't catch on until 5,500 RPM). I love my Mini (s) - I have two.



1.  And this is exactly why they call them a "mini.."    Roll Eyes  

2.  Someone has been feeding you BS..   First.. a BMW Mini depending on model/year/config hovers around 2700 pounds.  Putting hydrogen in your tires really doesn't save you 500 pounds..  Roll Eyes     What's a "beefed up supercharger?"  Do you mean you went down a pulley size to make it spin faster and get a bit more boost?  

No such thing as a "race" cam or "race" head once you're older than 13.  How much air does the head flow?  Was it ported/polished to get there?  Valve size increased?  A different casting?   With your cams you want to specify lift and duration.  I remember back as a kid listening to my dad and uncle talk about "3/4 race cams"  "1/2 race cams", etc.. and even then knew someone was jerking their chain so I visited a library.  

As far as a supercharged car getting all it's torque from the time you turn it on.. nope.  The faster it spins (which is tied directly to the engine powering it by a rather stout belt) the more power it provides in the way of more air.. Once it passes the normal negative vacuum an engine operates in and goes positive.. this is "boost."  Depending on the tune/cam/head/SC/etc/etc this can be almost anywhere, but normally is at roughly 70% of max RPM for the boost to start and it will reach max boost (max power/torque) exactly where you want it.. max RPM.  Some call this your shift point.  You want to shift to a higher gear once you reach maximum power output.. assuming you want maximum performance.

Your 225hp claim at the wheels is certainly doable and would be a fast little Mini for sure.. but at 2700 pounds that puts it at the same power/weight ratio as.. say a 1965 Mustang with a 4 barrel V8.  12 pounds per horsepower.  Without modifications they turned roughly high 15's low 16's.  Your FWD Mini with modern tires has at least a full second advantage over that.. but we're still 3-4 seconds away from a Z06 Vette (middle of the pack performance wise) which is 505hp/3175 pounds, or 6.2 pounds per HP.   Almost double the horsepower per pound.. a significant "nudge."

The mini's in my area fall into a strange place.    They do well on the Autocross circuit but are far from the most bang for the buck so they're more popular with older drivers.. but the older drivers with big money run Porches, a bit less money Vettes/Vipers/, a bit less pony cars like the Mustangs and Camaros, down from there the Evo's/STI's, then the S2000's/Mini's/Miata's, and so on.. Younger drivers are mostly enamoured with the Evo's/STI's, S2000's/3000GT's/Zcars.. and depending on their available funds they can dump an easy 100k into any one of those..   The major issue with the mini's is a lack of physical room for modifications.  It's amazing how far you have to tear one down just to add a Supercharger for instance..    I've always felt the original mini's were a man's car.. while the new ones along with the Miata's and S2000's were women's cars.
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #113 on: September 24, 2012, 07:28:35 PM »
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1.  And this is exactly why they call them a "mini.."    Roll Eyes  

2.  Someone has been feeding you BS..   First.. a BMW Mini depending on model/year/config hovers around 2700 pounds.  Putting hydrogen in your tires really doesn't save you 500 pounds..  Roll Eyes     What's a "beefed up supercharger?"  Do you mean you went down a pulley size to make it spin faster and get a bit more boost?

NO Backseat, stripped out a lot of the interior panels, non-stock exhaust, carbon fiber hood, rear deck..2270 lbs. 

No such thing as a "race" cam or "race" head once you're older than 13.  How much air does the head flow?  Was it ported/polished to get there?  Valve size increased?  A different casting?   With your cams you want to specify lift and duration.  I remember back as a kid listening to my dad and uncle talk about "3/4 race cams"  "1/2 race cams", etc.. and even then knew someone was jerking their chain so I visited a library.  

I'll get the duration specs from Jan Bruggerman (Revolution Mini Works) who built the fastest racing Mini in the USA and who coincidently also built mine. Ported and polished head, balanced and blueprinted motor.

As far as a supercharged car getting all it's torque from the time you turn it on.. nope.  The faster it spins (which is tied directly to the engine powering it by a rather stout belt) the more power it provides in the way of more air.. Once it passes the normal negative vacuum an engine operates in and goes positive.. this is "boost."  Depending on the tune/cam/head/SC/etc/etc this can be almost anywhere, but normally is at roughly 70% of max RPM for the boost to start and it will reach max boost (max power/torque) exactly where you want it.. max RPM.  Some call this your shift point.  You want to shift to a higher gear once you reach maximum power output.. assuming you want maximum performance.

Let's just say I'm on it long before most car quit spinning their wheels - the major fault of the Corvette. As the the beefed supercharger, it is on a 17% pulley with teflon coated blades. I went from an '04 SC to an '06 and gained almost 6 pounds of boost.

Your 225hp claim at the wheels is certainly doable and would be a fast little Mini for sure.. but at 2700 pounds that puts it at the same power/weight ratio as.. say a 1965 Mustang with a 4 barrel V8.  12 pounds per horsepower.  Without modifications they turned roughly high 15's low 16's.  Your FWD Mini with modern tires has at least a full second advantage over that.. but we're still 3-4 seconds away from a Z06 Vette (middle of the pack performance wise) which is 505hp/3175 pounds, or 6.2 pounds per HP.   Almost double the horsepower per pound.. a significant "nudge."

235 wheel torque into 2270 is 1:9.6 and that puts me in with a lot of the big boys. I have to admit I 've only raced one Corvette and it was not one of the newer ones, so I could be blowing a bit of smoke there, but I do have fun with Chargers, Camaros and Mustangs. Power to weight is everything.

The mini's in my area fall into a strange place.    They do well on the Autocross circuit but are far from the most bang for the buck so they're more popular with older drivers.. but the older drivers with big money run Porches, a bit less money Vettes/Vipers/, a bit less pony cars like the Mustangs and Camaros, down from there the Evo's/STI's, then the S2000's/Mini's/Miata's, and so on.. Younger drivers are mostly enamoured with the Evo's/STI's, S2000's/3000GT's/Zcars.. and depending on their available funds they can dump an easy 100k into any one of those..   The major issue with the mini's is a lack of physical room for modifications.  It's amazing how far you have to tear one down just to add a Supercharger for instance..    I've always felt the original mini's were a man's car.. while the new ones along with the Miata's and S2000's were women's cars.

Ian Stewart of Maitland Motors, the current world champion driver of Jan's Mini would love to argue that point with you...as would I...but it would fall on deaf ears.

They are a major pain in the butt to do anything to including a simple oil change. Nothing on one is cheap and there are a number of cars out there that will wreak havoc with me, EVO's being one - those are naughty little beasts. I cannot tell you everything Jan did to my motor. I handed him a check, he gave me a Mustang Dyno sheet and a car. I have over 40K in mine. It is a hobby.
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #114 on: September 24, 2012, 09:09:32 PM »
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I'll get the duration specs from Jan Bruggerman (Revolution Mini Works) who built the fastest racing Mini in the USA and who coincidently also built mine. Ported and polished head, balanced and blueprinted motor.


Lift and duration.. I'm trying to get up to speed on 4-bangers.. it's always educational to hear how others did theirs.   So you did your lower end too?  Did you keep the stock bore and what compression did you decide on?   If you started with a factory supercharged motor (181) and only increased your power by 60  (increase of 30%) .. not at all sure why you would go through the expense of a new bottom end, but I'm interested to learn about why you did.. and especially how you then added the huge expense of balancing and blueprinting which is usually reserved for high output engines (where it makes a difference).


Quote

Let's just say I'm on it long before most car quit spinning their wheels - the major fault of the Corvette. As the the beefed supercharger, it is on a 17% pulley with teflon coated blades. I went from an '04 SC to an '06 and gained almost 6 pounds of boost.



We can say it, but I'm not seeing it.   Your torque curve pretty much mimics that of most other supercharged motors) and is inferior to that of a normally aspirated Vette.  247hp (sorry for the mixup of torque/hp, but for the purposes of this discussion they're near enough a 1:1 where it doesn't much matter) for a 4-banger is considered mild for a performance car.. There are many Evo and STI's out there running 400+ with street tunes and reliable (full season builds) in the 800hp realm.  Anyway, with modern traction control units on most every performance car out there.. "spinning tires" is more a function of a bad driver (or a stupid bad driver who turns off their traction control) than your torque curve.  Unless you're making the argument that a lower powered car has more drivability than a high powered car.. which past a certain and modest power point is always true.   I'm running a 500+rwhp car and if my wheels spin when I don't want them to then it's my fault, not the car.  Plus the Vette's have a great reputation for being easy to drive on the track.


Interesting about your SC..  The stock unit must not have had the capacity for the needed boost.. 17% smaller.. 4-6 pounds is about right.  I say interesting because most supercharger installs have a lot more headroom than that.. but I can see them doing this because the space is so tight on a mini.


Quote

235 wheel torque into 2270 is 1:9.6 and that puts me in with a lot of the big boys. I have to admit I 've only raced one Corvette and it was not one of the newer ones, so I could be blowing a bit of smoke there, but I do have fun with Chargers, Camaros and Mustangs. Power to weight is everything.



I'd study your competition.  For instance, a box-stock Mustang GT puts out 420hp/380torque (on premium) on a 3600 pound chassis.  That's a 1:9.5 torque ratio.. so on any test of acceleration, torque, etc you're looking for near same performance.  This is a stock $28,000 car.  Where your advantages are is that 900 pounds less weight being braked into corners and otherwise fighting non-power dependent numbers.  Big advantages there, but not where you're saying.  A Vette performs must better than a Mustang GT in stock configurations (thank gawd for classifications).   But either one, Vette or Mustang is very inexpensive compared to a mini to up the performance.. A $3600 supercharger kit from Ford Racing now gets you 650hp..  I'd imagine an increase of that magnitude would cost you a small fortune on a mini.  Again, classifications make you ask yourself why if you actually race.. where for street use you might not be concerned with classes but the same question still applies .. why.

Quote

It is a hobby.


You sound like a strong fan.   I've raced SCCA for a long time but recently started Autocross events because they're convenient and discovered they're a fair amount of fun.   If you don't already you might want to give them a try.
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #115 on: September 24, 2012, 10:33:31 PM »
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I had the whole thing done, top to bottom, punched, sleeved and stroked, positraction dif, header, beefed clutch, intercoooler, pretty much everything. This was more a case of having more money than common sense and getting caught up in the early (new model Minis) craze...back when there weren't many on the road..anymore, they've become the VW's of the 60's - one on every corner. It's a fun car and I can get you all the specs when I get ahold of Jan later this week. I raced some in my much younger years but frankly, I've rebuilt this to give to my grandson for his 21st birthday (a while yet) because he's loved Minis since I think before he was born. I still like a good run with someone but I'm also getting to that point where the reflexes aren't what they used to be, nor the eyesight...best to leave autocross to the kids (anyone under 55).

I'll still eff around with someone on occasion and I rarely miss a shot at the Dragon each year, but with 145,000 miles on mine that's about the size of my outings anymore. By the time the kid hits 21, this will be in the same antique category as the last Mini posted on here...but still a heck of a lot of fun. For some reason, I've managed to leave my Clubman S alone. Maybe my brain got bigger than my wallet.  Grin

Just for the record, there's a Mini in So Cal that does a 9.6 1/4 mile. I think there is still a youtube video on it. I think he's running twin Rotrex Superchargers. It's a beast.
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #116 on: September 24, 2012, 11:55:06 PM »
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I had the whole thing done, top to bottom, punched, sleeved and stroked, positraction dif, header, beefed clutch, intercoooler, pretty much everything. This was more a case of having more money than common sense and getting caught up in the early (new model Minis) craze...back when there weren't many on the road..anymore, they've become the VW's of the 60's - one on every corner. It's a fun car and I can get you all the specs when I get ahold of Jan later this week. I raced some in my much younger years but frankly, I've rebuilt this to give to my grandson for his 21st birthday (a while yet) because he's loved Minis since I think before he was born. I still like a good run with someone but I'm also getting to that point where the reflexes aren't what they used to be, nor the eyesight...best to leave autocross to the kids (anyone under 55).

I'll still eff around with someone on occasion and I rarely miss a shot at the Dragon each year, but with 145,000 miles on mine that's about the size of my outings anymore. By the time the kid hits 21, this will be in the same antique category as the last Mini posted on here...but still a heck of a lot of fun. For some reason, I've managed to leave my Clubman S alone. Maybe my brain got bigger than my wallet.  Grin

Just for the record, there's a Mini in So Cal that does a 9.6 1/4 mile. I think there is still a youtube video on it. I think he's running twin Rotrex Superchargers. It's a beast.

1.  I'm interested to see.. sounds like an awful lot of work but maybe the mini engine requires this much work for the gains.   It will be educational.

2.  I bought my recent car in 1999 as a 'happy divorce' gift to myself (highly recommend as therapy and probably cheaper than buying women drinks) with the hope my youngest would develop an interest and maybe even a love for the car during the years before he could drive.  He was eight when he saw it for the first time, barely tall enough to see in the windows.  He walked all around the car, did it again, opened the door and looked inside, and then came and stood in front of me with what I now know is his best bargaining face.. and asked "promise to not sell this and to save it for when I can drive?"   

I promised and through the years we worked on it together, some serious work, some maintenance work, ran it at the local drag strips, he watched me run the track at SCCA events.. and there were long periods it went into storage while I lived overseas.  This last year I returned from overseas to set up house where he could live while going to his university and I had the car all serviced, shined and ready for him.. he couldn't believe I kept my promise.  For insurance reasons its still in my name, but it's his when he wants it.  Until then we share it.  And we spend a lot of time discussing what I'll replace it with.  A Boss 302, a new 662hp GT500, maybe a GT-R.. It will be my "happy he's done with university" present..

3.  Hey I resemble that remark.. and I'll have you know my son and I were only a few hundreds of a second apart at the last Autocross.  It will still be a few more years before he beats me more than I beat him.. hopefully the downhill to that one isn't too steep.

4.   There was a Youtube of some kids in a local shop class who bought a $800 Rabbit.. bolted on a straight 3" exhaust pipe, tore out the extra weight, added a really huge turbo, and then with the stock trans and rear end and tires and all that.. proceeded to turn high 8's.  The funniest sight I ever saw.  Big slicks on the front, small tires on the rear.   Of  course drivability isn't there.. it idles at 3800 just to keep it running.

Which is the crux of a build.  You spent a bunch and got mild performance, and you drove it 140,000.. perfect.  I spent a bunch an have 500rwhp+, power seats, A/C, big stereo, leather with massage, and you can drive it all day without getting sore with the 8 way elec seats and pneumatic lumbar adjustability.  I already have 51,000 and I suspect we'll get 200,000 because we built it very strong and run a very mild 500+ tune instead of the 600+ tune we use at the track.   Now.. when I get that new GT500 and pump it's 662hp up to 950+ I'm sure it will have that same nice drivability.   

On the other hand I'm also looking at the new Subaru BRZ and thinking 450+ would be a nice finishing number.. of course with the chassis upgrades, suspension, brakes, and all that other stuff to handle the power.  This is why I'm interested in 4-bangers recently.  A 2600 hundred pound car with 450+ on what is reported to be an exceptional chassis is very hard to resist.  The BRZ comes with leather, heated seats/wipers/mirrors I need here, for 25,000.. There are two power upgrade paths.  Get an STI turbo 300hp engine and mildly modify it from the last 5 previous years WRZ/STI.. or massage their newest 200hp boxer that comes with it.  We might pick up a junkyard STI engine/tranny/complete wreck this winter and spend free time together building the engine ourselves.. and then when I get he BRZ it will be ready.. or if I decide to go the original engine route I can put the build STI engine in this really fun looking kit.. Factory Five makes really good kits and this is their newest.


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« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2012, 07:31:59 AM »
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Keep in mind when I made my original purchase and did most of the work on it, there wasn't much in the way of performance 4 bangers out there that got the same bang for the buck. The original price on mine in 2004 was 32,000. It was the Monte Carlo edition with all the fancy leather, carbon fiber dash, Harmon Kardon, sport suspension (all of which has been replaced with better stuff) etc. Between the suspension and the motor, I've got a bit more than $8K addtional in it. In today's Mini market, you can't even get the ne JCW GP for that price.

I haven't touched the car other than replacing the wiring harness and injectors in many-many miles. I fully expect to get 200K miles out of it and there are lads in our club who regularly get 300K out of stockers and there are a few who've seen that with modified.

The Mini was never touted much as a straight line racer but more for its performance on the track and up in them thar hills. Last year at the Dragon (Deal's Gap, NC) we had 753 Minis on tap for all kinds of legal and not as legal events. The Dragon is 318 turns in 11 miles and traverses 2 states. When I went to the first Dragon, I think there were only about 120 cars.

Yeah, I did spend a lot of money for less bang than I could have gotten with many other cars but was trying to bring back a part of my youth from the "66 Mini S I once owned...and because I could and not miss the money. Silly, but WTF.

That ride of yours looks like it could chew my little boy up and spit it out without so much as revving the motor. It's been fun but we've probably beat this part of the forum to death. But please do keep those Chevy pics coming.
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Rob C
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« Reply #118 on: September 25, 2012, 10:52:44 AM »
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That ride of yours looks like it could chew my little boy up and spit it out without so much as revving the motor. It's been fun but we've probably beat this part of the forum to death. But please do keep those Chevy pics coming.



Bullshit! That's what this part of the forum's for: cars, pix of cars and opinions about cars.

No point in photographs if the content remains a mystery. It's also reassuring to discover that other people can be as daft with their bread as I can be. Well, as daft as I perhaps used to be. Now, it all seems crazy, but what else is there if not ultimate madness? It's the only thing, in the last resort, that keeps you sane. Sometimes I think I do live in the last resort, and then I realise no, there are more and they are often worse.

Stumbled onto the final twenty minutes of one of the Beverly Hills Cops movies a few minutes ago, the one with the long raincoat? I've seen them both, but as they all merge in my mind, it's difficult to know which might have been which. They never did make a third, did they?

Rob C
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nemo295
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« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2012, 12:17:28 PM »
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'74 Jensen Interceptor, center console detail.
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