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Author Topic: Zeiss 55mm 1.4 Distagon  (Read 23458 times)
Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2012, 07:44:11 AM »
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>>>>>>Who would like to have a leaf shutter in this lens?<<<<<<<

there is already global shutter technology available on smaller resolution CMOSīs.
With this ANY shutter will become unneeded. You will be able to sync to full speed of the chips readout. If any there only will be one shutter plane.
So shortly before availabilty of such a technology it does not make any sense to invest in this (at least not for large volume makers like Canon, Nikon or Sony).

Regards
Stefan
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michele
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« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2012, 10:09:08 AM »
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Why would an aperture of f/1.4 be beyond MF?

Just for reference, here's a crop of a Canon EF 85mm f/1.2 on an IQ180, wide open.



The crop is to roughly 63.5 megapixels. Sensor coverage here is 48x36mm.

Heavy vignetting of course...

Regards,

Gerald.



Ok Gerald, now you have to tell me how can I mount my canon ef 85mm 1.2 into my phaseone camera  Grin
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FredBGG
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« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2012, 12:29:34 PM »
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Prontor made the shutters and barrels for the V lenses for Zeiss

Also you need the electronic coupling/ protocol to control a leaf shutter, so Canon/ Nikon will also have to invest in it...

Coupling could easily be done with sync directly from the lens. Just sync the leaf shutter to the the focal plane shutter and use the focal plane shutter
at a slower speed so it does not get in the way. For low ISO settings there would be no quality loss. Shutter speed could be set on the lens.
This scenario would be manual exposure. It could also be kept simple with just the high speeds above focal plane flash sync.

I have experimented with this using a D800 behind a Fuji gx680 body..... however the Fuji lenses max out at 1/400th.

I contacted Carl Zeiss and they told me that a leaf shutter is not presently in their plans, but that they have the capability.

Sigma has a leaf shutter program, but they would not say when it would be available.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2012, 12:32:32 PM »
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>>>>>>Who would like to have a leaf shutter in this lens?<<<<<<<

there is already global shutter technology available on smaller resolution CMOSīs.
With this ANY shutter will become unneeded. You will be able to sync to full speed of the chips readout. If any there only will be one shutter plane.
So shortly before availabilty of such a technology it does not make any sense to invest in this (at least not for large volume makers like Canon, Nikon or Sony).

Regards
Stefan

This will be interesting as it makes it's way to higher resolutions and FF.

Nikon already had a high flash sync camera... the d70. Flash sync at 1/2000th if I recall correctly.
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Hulyss
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« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2013, 06:51:34 AM »
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Sorry to up this topic but I was thinking about this future 55 mm.

Is that possible that ZEISS is trying (like SIGMA start to do) to up his game and decided to rework formulas and bodys of all existing DSLR Zeiss glass, to fit the future (and actual) high pixel sensors  ??

This is just a though. Might be possible they are trying to craft two DSLR line-up of lenses : Conventional (actual line-up) and professional (like this future lens). 
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FredBGG
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« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2013, 04:00:09 PM »
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I think that Zeiss sees the opportunity to sell very high end lenses for the D800 and D800E as well as new sensors that will be coming out for 35mm DSLRs
at a faster pace than MF.

Carl Zeiss has a very wide knowledge base. While they are lens makers they like Nikon are leaders in micro electronics fabrication equipment.
As suppliers of micro electronics manufacturers they know very well what is in development a long time before it reaches the market.

If you consider the huge price difference between the D800 and an IQ140 choosing a D800 leaves a lot of cash for high end lenses for the D800.

I think that Carl Zeiss's significant departure from MF has a lot to do with their deep knowledge of the Micro Electronics industry.

http://smt.zeiss.com/semiconductor-manufacturing-technology/en_de/home.html

Regarding Sigma. I suspect they are upto something. If one looks at what comes out of the compact Merril  can you imagine
what a FF sensor would be capable of. I think this is in part why Sigma is coming out with higher end lenses like the new 85mm 1.4.
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2013, 04:23:13 PM »
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I think this is exactly what the plan of Zeiss is. Their current activities in MF are Zero. Hartblei is the last supplier of Zeiss MF Glass and we did a transformation
to 35mm mounts with it. We still can use it on the HCam -and now also ALPA FPS , but the most lenses we sell now go out with Nikon mount for the D800E.

I doubt very much that there will be much more devellopment of completely new lenses for MF.
The numbers of sold lenses are going down and the cost of devellopment per new lens is going up.
Now everybody can count 1+1 and decide what will probably happen.

Regards
Stefan
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hasselbladfan
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« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2013, 04:46:31 PM »
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Totally different lens.


Correct.

At the Photokina, Dr. Pollmann told me that they asked their engineers to develop the best 55mm, without limitations in size or budget. This is the result.

Next to me, someone was trying the lens on a D800E and he couldn't believe the results.

By the way, this is only the fist lens of a range of superlatives. Smiley
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bcooter
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« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2013, 04:47:14 PM »
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Stefan,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but why is it that Sigman, Tamron, etc. can make autofocus lenses for Nikon and Canon mounts, but Zeiss only makes autofocus for Sony?

Seems strange since looking down the hole of these little plastic covered cameras and trying to manually focuses requires the eye acuity of a eagle.

IMO

BC
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Jeffery Salter
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« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2013, 04:59:35 PM »
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MF on the other side probably has a half half strategy, lenses AND Backs with bodies as a replaceable lesser item.
The problem is: the CCD backs limit the further devellopment of more competitive Bodies and lenses.

Hi Stefan,

Please bear with me...  Are you suggesting that MF makers should morph there digi backs and camera bodies into one unit? And use CMO chips? 

Thank you,
Jeffery
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Radu Arama
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« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2013, 05:10:54 PM »
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Hi Stefan,

This is highly unfair to Pentax which after 3 totally new prime designs (55mm, 25mm, 90mm) will roll out three totally new zooms (including the first one to start with a 2X mm).

Regards,
Radu

I think this is exactly what the plan of Zeiss is. Their current activities in MF are Zero. Hartblei is the last supplier of Zeiss MF Glass and we did a transformation
to 35mm mounts with it. We still can use it on the HCam -and now also ALPA FPS , but the most lenses we sell now go out with Nikon mount for the D800E.

I doubt very much that there will be much more devellopment of completely new lenses for MF.
The numbers of sold lenses are going down and the cost of devellopment per new lens is going up.
Now everybody can count 1+1 and decide what will probably happen.

Regards
Stefan
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FredBGG
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« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2013, 05:41:14 PM »
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Stefan,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but why is it that Sigman, Tamron, etc. can make autofocus lenses for Nikon and Canon mounts, but Zeiss only makes autofocus for Sony?

Seems strange since looking down the hole of these little plastic covered cameras and trying to manually focuses requires the eye acuity of a eagle.

IMO

BC

I asked a Zeiss rep about the new lens and he confirmed that it would be manual focus at least to start with.

He said that the advanced support for manual focusing in new and future DSLR cameras is one of the reasons why they are going
with manual focus.

He also told me that Zeiss is also working on miniaturized high res display systems and that there are huge innovations
coming in that area from various companies. Sonys digital viewfinders are just the tip of the iceberg.

Live view and live view with face recognition fine focus zoom in (right into the corners of the image if needed)

2K live view over HDMI

Focus confirmation on large number of focus points in the viewfinder.

All features that support critical focusing better than even the biggest pentaprism
viewfinders, even with limited eyesight.

And what does plastic covered bodies have to do with focusing?

The whole D800 chassis is alloy:



Card slot door is plastic, Grip is Rubber, pop up flash is plastic.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 05:48:00 PM by FredBGG » Logged
drevil
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« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2013, 07:50:46 PM »
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i'd wish for an HC 24mm  equivalent for my c645  Embarrassed

what do you think how much a private order would cost?  Tongue
the 1700mm also seems to be a single copy
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Brian Hirschfeld
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« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2013, 09:37:37 PM »
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Or

It's the same lens as the 55mm/f3.5 Distagon they made for the 645AF...

But with a larger aperture since 35mm sensors only use the centre of the lens so won't bring up issues of CA, vignetting and softness towards the edges at full aperture

The aperture ring is probably at the base of the barrell close to the body

@georgl It's a new design, "opening up" an existing design by 2.5 stops is not possible...

I hope that they finally got some common sense and produce this lens themselves - compromising another design by mediocre mechanical quality or sample variation for a so-called reference line-up makes little sense, since the target audience already accepts bigger, heavier and expensive lenses - no need for compromises...

that opened up an existing design by a couple of stops:
http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/453105-metabones-speed-booster-lens-adapter/

@yaya is correct about the placement of the aperture ring, http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/1CarlZeiss55mmMontageSML.jpg
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2013, 03:50:25 AM »
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Radu
You are right Pentax is about the only one who seems to still push into that direction, but I am pretty sure, compared to their 35mm business this is marginal.

Jeffrey
Yes thatīs the logical consequence, sooner or later the further improvements in chips will demand tuned and synced systems that are diminishing maechanical tolerances as far as possible, also a live view will be essential. Look at Pentax and Leica, they already started going this way.

BC
Zeiss does not make any Autofocus, they do not have the technology, Sony Minolta supplies this part of the lens.
But - Zeiss could of course have Cosina make autofocus lenses, the problem is not technical, itīs a licensing, a payment for this and also a logical problem, actually the
targeted customers probably use these lenses more in manual mode than in AF mode, so it does not make too much sense. It also has technical advantages, you can
use a much better mechanical focusing if this does not have to be coupled with AF.

Regards
Stefan
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bcooter
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« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2013, 04:00:52 AM »
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BC
Zeiss does not make any Autofocus, they do not have the technology, Sony Minolta supplies this part of the lens.
But - Zeiss could of course have Cosina make autofocus lenses, the problem is not technical, itīs a licensing, a payment for this and also a logical problem, actually the
targeted customers probably use these lenses more in manual mode than in AF mode, so it does not make too much sense. It also has technical advantages, you can
use a much better mechanical focusing if this does not have to be coupled with AF.

Regards
Stefan

I guess that makes sense, though the Sony/Zeiss lenses I use on my fs100 are beautiful and focus amazingly well.  They're big but good.

I'm not knocking 35mm, just find a lot of them boring.  Sony at least is trying new things.

What I miss is the ability to manual focus.  I can take a Nikon F5 and run with a model backwards and hit focus set on manual.  Can do the same with my Contax and an H series blad.

My D3, D700, All my Canons with manual focus through an optical finder is just hit and miss with way too many misses.

BTW: If Zeiss doesn't do autofocus who made it for the Contax lenses?

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 04:03:26 AM by bcooter » Logged
Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2013, 08:36:12 AM »
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>>>>>BTW: If Zeiss doesn't do autofocus who made it for the Contax lenses?>>>>

Yashica/Contax did it. Todays highend Autofocus is a (nearly exclusive) japanese Technology (I donīt know who supplied it for the HY6).

Regards
Stefan
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FredBGG
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« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2013, 11:16:12 AM »
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Kyochera lisenced the Contax brand and optical designs from Zeiss.
Kyochera designed and made the Contax system and manufactured all the lenses.

Kyochera decided to get out of the camera business including mf and focused
on electronics and specialized scientific and industrial optics.

Kyochera has grown significantly and currently has a market capitalization of $16 billion.

As an electronics company thet predicted the drop in profitability and future viability of MF as a volume
product.
While it is very sad that the Contax 645 went away and was no longer improved on it is
quite clear that Kyochera made the right long term choice.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 11:32:53 AM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2013, 11:42:06 AM »
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>>>>>>Who would like to have a leaf shutter in this lens?<<<<<<<

there is already global shutter technology available on smaller resolution CMOSīs.
With this ANY shutter will become unneeded. You will be able to sync to full speed of the chips readout. If any there only will be one shutter plane.
So shortly before availabilty of such a technology it does not make any sense to invest in this (at least not for large volume makers like Canon, Nikon or Sony).

Regards
Stefan

Commercial products have even been on the market Nikon D70s being one of them.

Also current high end Nikon and Canon have HSS that can sync to 1/8000th.
Add to that the arrival of strobes that have advanced HSS support leaf shutters are looking
slow and old tech. Reliability is also an issue with phase one / mamiya leaf shutters.
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yaya
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« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2013, 12:56:28 PM »
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Kyochera Kyocera also left the 35mm and P&S markets so following the same logic these markets are also doomed....better flog your DSLR, quick...
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