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Author Topic: H5D announced  (Read 17427 times)
EricWHiss
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« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2012, 08:27:46 PM »
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Fred,
What's the point of arguing about True Focus when you illustrate it with a shot that was probably shot at f/16 or smaller? And with a wide or normal lens even.  How hard is that?  I mean you could guess the distance and shoot what you had there. The finger isn't going to make a difference nor movement of your 'subject'.    It's a nice image, but not even remotely pertinent to the thread.  A pertinent image would be one that you shot personally with a H4 using true focus at f/2 that was or wasn't in focus.  Film shots or pics of bikes aren't going to show anything.
Eric
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Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
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« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2012, 09:04:22 PM »
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I assume long exposure capability beyond 4 minutes is still not possible with the Hasselblad back.
Is the demand for such a feature that small?

The 40mp has the capability for a 4 minute 16 second exposure with no additional black calibration required.
The long exposure limitation is not that due to lack of demand but to the image quality that Hasselblad expects to deliver to its customers.

Shutter speed range
H4D/H5D40: 256 sec. to 1/800 second
H4D/H5D50: 128 sec. to 1/800 second
H4D/H5D60: 32 sec. to 1/800 second
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Paul Claesson
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Hasselblad Hasselblad Bron Inc.
support@hasselbladbron.com or
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The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of Hasselblad.
FredBGG
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« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2012, 09:10:32 PM »
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Fred,
What's the point of arguing about True Focus when you illustrate it with a shot that was probably shot at f/16 or smaller?
Eric


I'm not arguing..... I think it depends on how one reads the posts...

Also the limitation I am pointing out is documented by Hasselblad:

Quote
As the camera can only detect rotational movement, care
must be taken when re-composing to make sure there are
no or very little, movement closer or further away from the
subject.

And from later in the article:

When the camera is tilted for composition, the point of maximum sharpness falls just behind the eyes. However, the DOF
is almost large enough to render the eye sharp making the
difference hard to see. A camera movement closer or further
away from the camera even as small as 1 cm will change the
result and True Focus might not fully correct the focus.

here is a link to the article:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2234814/when%20true%20focus%20makes%20a%20difference.pdf


The Larry King photo....
That was a joke about going through photos and having to reject out of focus ones.... that was just the kind of expression I might get when I hit the delete button Wink


My point is that wide open nothing beats focusing without having to recompose, because you can focus right upto the instant you shoot.
Same is you have many focusing points and you can quickly choose the one you want.



Here is an example or two of shallow depth shots of mine













I also do things like this.. both shot wide open but with or without tilt shift, notice how the background is equally out of focus in both.



« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 10:46:05 AM by FredBGG » Logged
Manolis
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« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2012, 04:52:32 AM »
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The 40mp has the capability for a 4 minute 16 second exposure with no additional black calibration required.
The long exposure limitation is not that due to lack of demand but to the image quality that Hasselblad expects to deliver to its customers.

Shutter speed range
H4D/H5D40: 256 sec. to 1/800 second
H4D/H5D50: 128 sec. to 1/800 second
H4D/H5D60: 32 sec. to 1/800 second


Thank you Paul.

I had contacted Hasselblad HQ in Europe and asked them if the H4D-40 could be used above 4 minutes by doing a black frame subtraction. Few days later their answer came and they told me that it would not be usable even with BFS and that 4 minutes is the limit.

If that is not  so, I would like to hear about it or see samples.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2012, 07:09:12 AM »
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The H4D40 can do 256second exposures which is 4 minutes and 16 seconds exactly as Paul has stated. The Hasselblad does not need a black frame subtraction which means that after the 4min16 sec exposure the equipment is ready to take another exposure. You do not have to wait another 4min16seconds for the black frame subtraction.

I am pretty sure that most dealers in your neighbourhood would be willing to show you the long exposures by the H4D40.

I have seen images that were in the 8minute range with beta firmware and even though to my eyes they looked fine apparently the quality was not at the level HB felt comfortable with. I would be perfectly happy given the choice between more flexibility and lesser quality under circumstances but I can totally understand why HB doesn't want to do this given the way most people tend to react on every development coming from HB.
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erstwhile
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« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2012, 09:10:39 AM »
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First of all: FredBGG, that Larry King shot is awesome.

Quote from: Hasselblad
A Hasselblad camera is not a reward for having achieved a successful career. A Hasselblad camera is the tool with which you build your successful career to begin with.
There is never any time like the present to start building for the future. And if you think 35mm is good enough for this stage of your career, then you’d better hope that your clients are also willing to settle for “good enough”. The best clients, however, are almost never willing to settle for “good enough”. And why should they, when there are photographers out there who can provide the best? And providing the best is what Hasselblad and the new H5D are all about.

Allow me to make some edits:
Quote from: Hasselblad
Using a Hasselblad camera will make your manhood larger, cause women to mud wrestle for the privilege to service you, and allow you to actually crap wads of twenty dollar bills from your poopchute. And if you think you don't need that, just know that your wife and daughters will probably get impregnated by someone who does use a Hasselblad!

There, all better.




Common Hasselblad, you can hire better copywriters/PR folks than that. That BS on the website just reeks of lack of class.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2012, 11:13:13 AM »
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Erstwhile,
That was kind of funny in vulgar sort of way I guess.   


But seriously what's up with all the neg on HB?   Especially coming from so many that don't shoot with one, it seems strange.  Let me guess all you guys with the Mamiya DF were really hoping for something special enough from HB to dump you POS DF body and switch brands?   DSLR shooters not feeling secure with their tool?   

Come on Phase has warmed over the DF for so long and still get the love and you guys are tearing up HB for what was already a pretty nice and advanced camera, and Photokina hasn't even started yet.  Do you not think there will be something else?


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FredBGG
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« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2012, 01:37:22 PM »
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But seriously what's up with all the neg on HB?   Especially coming from so many that don't shoot with one, it seems strange.  Let me guess all you guys with the Mamiya DF were really hoping for something special enough from HB to dump you POS DF body and switch brands?   DSLR shooters not feeling secure with their tool? 


Edit:

I was about to answer this, but thinking about it ... it does not merit a reply.
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TMARK
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« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2012, 01:53:27 PM »
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Eric,

You know, I think the criticim comes from frustration with all of the MFD options.  The best still-in-production solution is likely the Rollei, but even that wonderful camera is compromised by poor availability.  The DF just feels old, but the Phase/Leaf backs have the best support and arguably the best tethering and C1 workflow.  The H is readily available, nice IQ, best VF of currently produced MF (The Rollei might be better or have better options, but no one has one or any accessories to check out), has best of class AF (again, the Rollei might be better), and True Focus does work reasonably well.  Phocus is not great, just counter intuitive in many ways, but over all not a bad camera at all.  The frustration comes from the fact that the DSLRs are so good now (yes, even the 1ds3/5d2) that shelling out the additional green for somewhat better IQ but an inferior camera is off-putting, to say the least.  And by better IQ I mean 400 and below, with some exceptions such as the P65/IQ160/H4D-40, that can do an OK 800.  So for the large premium for MFD over a DSLR, EVERYTHING, including the handling and usability, better be top notch.

This keys into the Italian motorcycle issue brought up by Fred:  Buying a Ducati Monster 1100 EVO would be more fulfilling than buying an MFD solution instead of a D800/5D3.  I have a Monster 796 and two Moto Guzzis, a V7 that I cafed out and a 72 V7 Sport.  I'd much rather get radical at a track day than have a new MFD solution.

Personally, I don't thing I will buy a new back or MF camera, although the Rollei with an Aptus back is tempting.  My RZ with an Aptus 75s is, to me, the best MF solution available.  Cheap, great waist level, cheap, I own every lens except for the fisheye, cheap, shoots big 6x7 negs when I want it.  The Fuji 680 looks nice, I passed on it in the film days because for anything where tilt and tripod was required, I shot 4x5 or 8x10, or used a 6x9 back.  I feel the same way now.

All that being said, I think the H5D will be great.  Its evolutionary and a world better than the H1s that all seemed to lock up on me back in 2004/2005.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2012, 02:24:48 PM »
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Tmark,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  You are right in that each one of these platforms has something missing or not perfect, but at least for me, my frustration always is with the DSLR's. Maybe I'm the odd ball but I find that I expect the DSLR's to auto focus well and expose well and to be able to work faster.  But at least my 5D2 doesn't consistently do this.  The viewfinder isn't good enough to MF and selecting the AF point is okay but sometimes that slows things down plus the AF can pick up the background instead of the target.  Relying on AF also changes my image style since I can't get the focus points over where I want to focus in my composition - or I have to back up and crop which means more work later. Actually most of the work had to be cropped since I'm not a fan of the 3::2 format.   DSLR's have slow sync speeds like the DF body and more mirror shake issues.  I did like my 1D bodies but the 5D2 frustrates me often.

I'm more comfortable working with the Rollei and Mamiya RZ.  Interestingly, I can fit both my backs (aptus 12 and CF 528) on the rollei and the RZ plus a film back with Tmax too when I want. I like that flexibility.   I'm not expecting miracles from the MF makers.  I think the H body is actually pretty good. Agree the phocus software is harder (at least for me) to use than C1.

btw - I had a Ducati 900 s/s and an older Hawk GT.  Loved them but was too good at destroying them with my risky street riding. Seemed to always ruin a good pair of shoes and wear another hole in my leather jacket too.
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TMARK
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« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2012, 02:50:48 PM »
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I feel you on the 5d2 AF.  I can MF it fairly well with a the EG-s screen.  I have a 5D3, and it is worlds better.  It really is more like a 1 series than a 5D series.  I mainly use the D800e now, really like it.  The VF is about the same, maybe brighter than the 5D series.  AF on the D800 is good, not as good as the 5D3.  I only have the Canon stuff for three lenses:  50 1.2, 85 1.2 and 135 2.  I wish I could bolt them to a D800.  I find myself using the D800e with the Blad 150 CF and 80 CF more than anything else.  Low contrast wide open and sharp, like a Leica lens. 

The only thing I don't like about the RZ with a digiback is the AE finder.  Too dim, too heavy.  Its amazing how well damped the mirror is. 

The 900s/s was a great bike.  I really like the desmo sound.  I worked with a model who had a tattoo of a 900 desmo engine on her shoulder.  Made me want to leave my wife.
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figure1a
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« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2012, 02:59:36 PM »
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Really? Another Hasselblad evolution? They need to spend more time working on each generation than spitting out upgrades so fast that they don't really warrant. Most pros use the Phase backs (but with H bodies) as they are the best IMO. Phase works hard to work out the kinks (not always perfect) and seems to be on a 5 year cycle or so. It seems like every few months there's a new Hasselblad H4DI2000XYZ or something coming out. They probably already have the H6D started in production and that will be announced in January.
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JV
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« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2012, 03:17:44 PM »
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Phase works hard to work out the kinks (not always perfect) and seems to be on a 5 year cycle or so.

Really? P40+/P65+ in 2008/2009, Leaf Aptus 12 in 2010, IQ180 in 2011, Credo 80 in 2012, sounds more like a yearly cycle to me...
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design_freak
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« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2012, 03:32:57 PM »
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Quite a few entries about the negative statements at HB. Criticism is not bad! Some people criticize that these products have become even better. If someone is a fan of the brand, its products are treated like children. So it is no insult, you just need to listen, because it can be very helpful to be able to create better products.

That's my two cents
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DF

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Dinarius
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« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2012, 02:12:54 PM »
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Totally agree with the sentiment that Hasselblad seem to announce a new camera every other month. Canon have two cameras (1Ds Mklll & 5D Mk lll) that have stood the test of time. (How many H4 cameras were there? I lost count!) Canon then built a system around them. Hasselblad seem to be in the business of admitting they keep getting it wrong and have to 'improve'.

I use a H3Dll 39MS. It's an extraordinary camera(!) and, if I can ensure continued connectivity to a laptop, probably the only camera I'll ever need!

Which brings me to my main point (& one I've discussed elsewhere on this board) - forget eyecups, the issue is connectivity! If Apple give up FireWire (like almost all other PC manufacturers) shed loads of Hasselblad owners are screwed.

What Hasselblad got wrong in previous models is not future proofing connectivity. I connect my Canon 1Ds Mklll using USB. As far as I know, Phase uses USB.

'nuff said.

D.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2012, 04:50:16 PM »
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As far as I know, Phase uses USB.

D.

No USB support, just a USB socket.

The back had been shipping for over a year, was advertised as having USB 3... still not there.

Quote
Hi

Next release is very close but USB is not a part of this scope, primary feature set is much related to DF integration and language support. I can not go in to details as we have an official channel which will communicate exact feature of this release.
Kind Regards
Ulf Liljegren
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This was about 7 months after the IQ started shipping.

Still no USB support more than a year and 4 months later.

At this point some suspect major hardware/driver issue for the USB electronics.
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pedro39photo
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« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2012, 11:00:50 AM »
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I don´t need that much in my H3DII 39MP, i have 5D Mark II and just 3 L´s lens 17-40 a 24-70 and a 70-200 f2.8 and for editorial and mags, never needed anything else and never any client ask for more resolution than 24MP in last 5 years.

But the 35mm for studio and product shots its not the great tool for me, because of the small iewfinder.

I have now a H3DII and just a 50-110mm with a extension tube, and i am blow way everytime i open the files in my 30" lcd screen!

For me the Hasselblad system just needed  more clean files in the 200-800iso range, and good 3" lcd for zoom focus confirmation outdoor.

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shaun
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« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2012, 11:56:25 AM »
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Hi Pedro

I was advised that the 50-110 was too heavy for extension tubes, I presume you have no issues?

Shaun
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pedro39photo
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« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2012, 06:23:53 PM »
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Hi Pedro

I was advised that the 50-110 was too heavy for extension tubes, I presume you have no issues?

Shaun

Hi Shaun
I presume that hasselblad make the extensions tubes mecanical compatible with all lens...there is tecnical pdf paper with all the H lens and the extensions tubes working distances, so i think that there is no problem...

Can´t you tell me if your advise came from a tecnical hasselblad voice?
Thanks
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Cineski
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« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2012, 08:12:09 PM »
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Does it take film backs like the H4X?
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