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Author Topic: Canon 6D  (Read 10894 times)
RFPhotography
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2012, 10:16:32 AM »
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As you apparently use a D700 and don't consider the D800 a valid successor, I would expect you to be utterly sensitive to the importance of those features?

Cheers,
Bernard


Sorry, Bernard, I don't see a question in that statement despite the punctuation.
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MrSmith
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 10:58:56 AM »
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1.  I shoot Nikon, so no fanboyism here.
2.  Whether the viewfinder is an advantage or a disadvantage wasn't the point of my comment.  My point was, simply, that this is not something many Canons have ever had so noting it as a material difference doesn't, to me, seem relevant.  Disadvantages in video?  Based on what I've read it seems pretty well settled that the quality of Canon's video is superior to Nikon's.  I've not yet seen a compelling argument that the uncompressed video from a Nikon is markedly superior to the compressed video. 
3.  D600's better AF?  How can that be determined when the camera isn't even available for serious testing yet?  "Likely better DR" is a complete assumption.  I'm not saying it won't have better range than the Canon but making such statements without actual data, even basing on recent trends, isn't valid analysis.
4.  Unlike many people here, I don't spend countless hours poring over camera data, cruising from website to website looking for technical minutiae, pixel-peeping or otherwise examining in excruciating detail things which, in real world, practical shooting won't make a big difference.  The infinitesimal differences in SNR for the 5D Mk III and D800 don't make a hill of beans difference.  Even the ~2.5 stops of drange at base ISO (according to DxO Mark, according to Imaging Resource it's less than 1 stop, but I grant the measures are done differently) isn't a huge concern because I know there are ways to work around that.  Lens system is a matter of preference.  There are Canon lenses that perform better than the like Nikon and vice versa.  There are third party lenses that, in some cases, perform better than both. 

can we make this a sticky? Undecided

maybe add something about seeking affirmation from your peers regarding purchasing decisions  Roll Eyes
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cybis
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 11:03:45 AM »
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This is not dead on arrival or any such thing. YET.

The key determining factors for me will be whether canon has managed to improve it's low light performance and dynamic range.  

Exactly! I need to upgrade my 5D Mk I and this is what I'll wait to learn before I decide between the D600 and the 6D.
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cybis
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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 11:24:48 AM »
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Sample images by Canon http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos6d/
Looks like very clean shadows at ISO400.
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Alto
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2012, 11:33:04 AM »
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Hi All

Will this turn out to be the Killer feature ? perhaps in another camera if they ever get round to slightly more megapixels and less FPS.


http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/eos_remote.aspx

regards

Jon
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BJL
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« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2012, 12:44:38 PM »
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Bob,
    sorry, I still fail to see how previous form of inferior VF coverage on Canon SLRs compared to Nikon SLR's makes the difference in VF coverage between the new 6D and D600 any less relevant to a comparison. I am interesting in comparisons between current and new offerings, regardless of previous history.

Also, I am puzzled by the contrast between your confidence that "it seems pretty well settled that the quality of Canon's video is superior to Nikon's" without the 6D and D600 video having been tested yet, while dismissing predictions about DR as "complete assumption" despite the solid recent record of Nikon DSLR's superiority in DR. Are you somehow trusting extrapolations based on previous products when they favor Canon but rejecting such extrapolations when they favor Nikon?
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fike
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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2012, 01:22:15 PM »
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Sample images by Canon http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos6d/
Looks like very clean shadows at ISO400.


I would expect no less from a full frame at ISO 400.  They list a still unavailable starry sky shot at ISO 6400 and 60.8 seconds.  That one should provide some serious fodder for discussion--if you trust the veracity of shots provided by the manufacturer.
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Fike, Trailpixie, or Marc Shaffer
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I carry an M43 ILC, a couple of good lenses, and a tripod.
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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2012, 01:26:31 PM »
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No Nikon fanboyism there.  Grin

It's pretty clear that Canon and Nikon have different philosophies when it comes to their respective product lines.  Nikon brought out an 'affordable' FX camera and now Canon has announced an 'affordable' full frame camera.  The Canon has some features that other Canon cameras don't such as built in wi-fi and geotagging.  There really are few Canon cameras that have ever had full viewfinder coverage.  The 5 series only got it with the Mk III.  Other than that, the only cameras that have had it are the 1 series.  The uncompressed video is a red herring because, as far as I know, no Canon has had that.  Uncompressed video is not an 'important photographic feature' if you don't do video (a lot of people don't). 

+1
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« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2012, 02:14:17 PM »
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Will this turn out to be the Killer feature ? perhaps in another camera if they ever get round to slightly more megapixels and less FPS.

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/eos_remote.aspx

That looks very nice. Based on limited info available it seems slicker than the web sites you can get from the top end cameras. Hopefully they'll have an iPad sized UI as well as the iPhone seen in the screenshots.

I'm intrigued by the mix of 6D and 7D model names in the sample images on that site (presumably 6D from August, 7D from May). Surely they'd sell more than a couple if they could launch a new wifi battery grip or other accessory for the 7D or 5D II / III that makes your camera work with this app.

--
Adam (who can hopefully shelve his plans for an accessory for iOS connectivity that would resemble a Raspberry Pi, a USB cable, and duct tape.)
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2012, 02:19:51 PM »
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Bob,
    sorry, I still fail to see how previous form of inferior VF coverage on Canon SLRs compared to Nikon SLR's makes the difference in VF coverage between the new 6D and D600 any less relevant to a comparison. I am interesting in comparisons between current and new offerings, regardless of previous history.

More a case of trying to compare apples to apples.  The D700 doesn't have 100% viewfinder coverage either.  So if the D800 came out and it didn't, while I'm sure people would squawk, it would be without basis.  It's in relation to me other statement that Canon and Nikon have different philosophies with respect to their product offerings.  I left Canon for a number of reasons; most of which were related to camera functionality for the work I was and am doing, but I also got to a point where I didn't understand their new product strategy.  So I bought into the Nikon strategy (which, of late is starting to be a little fuzzy too  Grin ).  Saying Canon has this or that but Nikon doesn't or vice versa is easy when switching costs are nil to minimal.  Or it's easy when you've got enough coin burning a hole in your jeans that you can afford to buy Nikon for this and Canon for that.  But when you are, like most people, committed to a single system because, in fact, switching costs are high then pissing and moaning about what Nikon has or Canon doesn't or vice versa is pointless.  

Quote
Also, I am puzzled by the contrast between your confidence that "it seems pretty well settled that the quality of Canon's video is superior to Nikon's" without the 6D and D600 video having been tested yet, while dismissing predictions about DR as "complete assumption" despite the solid recent record of Nikon DSLR's superiority in DR. Are you somehow trusting extrapolations based on previous products when they favor Canon but rejecting such extrapolations when they favor Nikon?

No, not at all.  Based on what I've seen in terms of reviews of the video functionality Canon's video in the 5D Mk III (and before that the Mk II) seems to be superior to what Nikon offers.  I'm making that statement based on what's out there now.  No extrapolation out to future products.  I should have continued to say that there's no way to tell on the newer cameras that haven't been tested.  So yes, I'll cop to an incomplete statement. Cheesy  My point was; however, that as you say, there's no way to tell since neither camera has been tested.  Hope that clears up any potential confusion.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2012, 02:28:48 PM »
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"Likely better DR" is a complete assumption.  I'm not saying it won't have better range than the Canon but making such statements without actual data, even basing on recent trends, isn't valid analysis.
I think it is fair to assume that a Canon 6D will not have significant improvements in DR, being a low-cost alternative released right after higher-cost Canon FF alternatives.

Of course, the assumption might be wrong, but this is a thread about a yet-unreleased camera, is it not? Are you suggesting this thread should be locked?
Quote
...The infinitesimal differences in SNR for the 5D Mk III and D800 don't make a hill of beans difference.  Even the ~2.5 stops of drange at base ISO (according to DxO Mark, according to Imaging Resource it's less than 1 stop, but I grant the measures are done differently) isn't a huge concern because I know there are ways to work around that. 
There are ways to work around pretty much any camera limitation. You could (concievably) use an old 3 MP DSLR and stitch until you have the needed resolution. The question is: if you can afford not to, why would you?
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Lens system is a matter of preference.  There are Canon lenses that perform better than the like Nikon and vice versa.  There are third party lenses that, in some cases, perform better than both. 
Agreed. And based upon lense preferences and availability, it might make a lot of sense to stick to a camera brand that in terms of sensor quality is slightly "worse".

-h
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2012, 02:29:06 PM »
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Hi All

Will this turn out to be the Killer feature ? perhaps in another camera if they ever get round to slightly more megapixels and less FPS.


http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/eos_remote.aspx

regards

Jon

There are already apps that allow this with a tethered connection.  

Where the built-in wifi could have a good application - provided it's put into other bodies in the future and this would apply to Nikon as well - is in the case of, for example, sports shooters.  They will, at game intermissions (e.g., halftime, between periods) download what they've shot so far to their laptops and fire the lot off to their agency or publication.  With a wifi connection they could, potentially, set up a connection to the laptop and offload the images on the fly, thereby saving time.  The faster an agency can get images on the wire, the more likely that agency gets the sale which means more profit.  Also at, for example, the Super Bowl, there used to be runners who would go around collecting film, take it to get processed and then to the picture editors.  Now those runners go around collecting memory cards.  If they can get a wireless connection so that the images are offloaded on the fly then, again, time is saved.  

The built-in wifi also has application in a studio.  You're limited by how far away you can place a laptop due to the length of cables.  But with a wifi connection, the laptop can be put in a more convenient place for reviewing images.  

There are plenty of good applications for built-in wifi.  
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2012, 02:32:44 PM »
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I think it is fair to assume that a Canon 6D will not have significant improvements in DR, being a low-cost alternative released right after higher-cost Canon FF alternatives.

Of course, the assumption might be wrong, but this is a thread about a yet-unreleased camera, is it not? Are you suggesting this thread should be locked?

No, of course not.  Simply that making declarative statements without data is pointless.

Quote
There are ways to work around pretty much any camera limitation. You could (concievably) use an old 3 MP DSLR and stitch until you have the needed resolution. The question is: if you can afford not to, why would you?

See my response above about the money issue.

Quote
Agreed. And based upon lense preferences and availability, it might make a lot of sense to stick to a camera brand that in terms of sensor quality is slightly "worse".

-h

Again, see my point above.  Yes, we make choices and, for the most part, we live with those choices.
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dreed
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« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2012, 03:14:58 PM »
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Where the built-in wifi could have a good application - provided it's put into other bodies in the future and this would apply to Nikon as well - is in the case of, for example, sports shooters.  They will, at game intermissions (e.g., halftime, between periods) download what they've shot so far to their laptops and fire the lot off to their agency or publication.  With a wifi connection they could, potentially, set up a connection to the laptop and offload the images on the fly, thereby saving time.  The faster an agency can get images on the wire, the more likely that agency gets the sale which means more profit.  Also at, for example, the Super Bowl, there used to be runners who would go around collecting film, take it to get processed and then to the picture editors.  Now those runners go around collecting memory cards.  If they can get a wireless connection so that the images are offloaded on the fly then, again, time is saved.

Sports shooters already do this with WiFi adapters and people at the ground who sift through what is coming off the camera in real time before sending good ones off.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2012, 03:50:56 PM »
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Some do, yes.  Not all.  This makes it easier and less expensive.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2012, 04:23:20 PM »
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Sorry, Bernard, I don't see a question in that statement despite the punctuation.

Bob,

Fine, I was hoping for a clarification of an apparent lack of coherence and logic accross your statements, but it seems we will not get that in this thread either.

Since fanboyism appears to be a relevant concept for you, you may not want to know that you come accros as belonging to the "Canon fanboy owning a D700" category. Smiley

Good luck with your images Bob.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
RFPhotography
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« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2012, 05:41:49 PM »
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Bernard, you are one funny dude.

You want clarification, just ask.  I simply said that if you were asking a question I didn't understand what the question was.  Ask a question.  Don't make a statement.  What were you asking? 


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macgyver
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« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2012, 10:24:38 PM »
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This is my first post on this forum in probably 5 or 6 years. How time flies.

Anywho... I, for one, am excited and curious about the 6D. I have my rusty, trusty 5D (the original) and I imagine that sooner or later I'll be wanting to upgrade. I have a solid investment in Canon lenses, so the Nikon camp is out of reach for me (although the D700 is probably about as close as I've ever seen to a 'dream camera' for me).

All that being said, the 6D strikes me as the spiritual successor of the 5D in some ways. I'd love to own a 5DIII, but I simply can't justify $3500 on a new body at this point or anytime in the near to mid future. The 6D opens up an upgrade path to a new (modern) sensor, improved AF (from my current 5D), and all sorts of other niceties (dust shaking sensor, live view, etc. I know, how very 2007...) that my 5D lacks.

$2100 USD is still a good chunk of money for me but much more manageable that the 5DIII.

At the end of the day... we all live in exciting times my friends. Too many new cameras to drool over and not enough time to shoot!
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« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2012, 12:13:12 AM »
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At the end of the day... we all live in exciting times my friends. Too many new cameras to drool over and not enough time to shoot!

And apparenly, there is a guy who gets to evaluate and shoot most of them.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2012, 12:34:12 AM »
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There are already apps that allow this with a tethered connection.   

There are plenty of good applications for built-in wifi.  
I dont see the 6D being popular among professional sports photographers.

I would love to be able to use the gui/open apps model of my smart-phone to control my DSLR. Sadly, as my phone has no USB host capability, AFAIK that is not conveniently possible today.

If the wifi is used as a "USB-replacement", and todays USB drivers for windows/mac are supplemented by Wifi equivalents for Android/iOS/..., I see many use-cases.
-Remote live-view (no need for articulating lcd screen)
-Time-lapse/improved exposure bracketing
-raw histogram capabilities in the field
-micro-focus adjustment tools/aids

+ all of the consumer-friendly "upload my images to facebook"-type functionality.

-h
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